Crazy oil consumption (1L/2000km)

hpopmds · 06-27-2021, 12:07 PM

HELP! please. Where can the oil go?
a) No leaks under the car.
b) No smoke in any occasion, and low blowby.
c) Oil burns more on long trips (not in the city).
d) Regens after 100km, and after a regen, soot is rising very quick.
e) Oil is frequently changed and is LL4.

Assuming there's an internal leak causing oil burn, and that the DPF catches the smoke, only the next 3 items are plausible (i think):
1- Turbo leak
2- Piston rings wear
3- Valve seals

Can someone help me please diagnosing?
(my car went to 3 diferent workshosps, including BMW dealer, but they didn't make any test (compression, turbo, etc). They just changed the oil).

FaRKle! · 06-27-2021, 08:27 PM

Have you checked the intercooler? That's where a lot of blow by or oil leaking from the turbo will collect.

hpopmds · 06-28-2021, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

Have you checked the intercooler? That's where a lot of blow by or oil leaking from the turbo will collect.

I only had checked the intercooler hoses inside (not the interccoler itself). There's some oil in there, but i don't have the notion if the quantity is too much.
Can the pression inside the intercooler be enough to push the oil up to the admission (and then burn the oil)?

FaRKle! · 06-28-2021, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmendes3

I only had checked the intercooler hoses inside (not the interccoler itself). There's some oil in there, but i don't have the notion if the quantity is too much.
Can the pression inside the intercooler be enough to push the oil up to the admission (and then burn the oil)?

eugene89us had a really thorough write up of oil leaking past the turbo and collecting in his intercooler.

Some oil in the intercooler will get carried up to the intake manifold by the air rushing through there.

hpopmds · 06-29-2021, 04:18 AM

Thanks for the great thread of Eugene88us.
I don't have any error codes on Bimmertool.
Is there a way to distinguish if the oil in the intercooler hose comes from the turbo or from blow-by?

btw: i was inspecting the breather hose, and i broke it! The plastic was really crunchy. But i didn't see any dirt inside and it was not so oily/greasy.

- Can the cracked breather hose had afected oil consumption?
- Has the oil evaporated through the breather hose?

I am sorry, but at this time i have so many questions diagnosing this mystery.
(if i can't find directly the problem, i want to eliminate some hypothesis. In the end, i'll get there

)

eugene89us · 06-30-2021, 11:43 AM

Thank you both, FaRKle! and hmendes3

As I described in my original thread (and since deleted the oil catch can, that was a nightmare result), I have had zero oil consumption. Usually, oil that collects in the intercooler is most often due to turbo seals leaking. Turbo seals are not "true seals" - they are not fully sealed and any issue with oil OUTFLOW from turbo will result in metal seals coming in contact with oil and leaking it out. Then as it builds in intercooler, it will start going into intake and burning as fuel. Your EGTs will go sky high - you will easily run on EGTs north of 600C even despite no regens happening. Mine got to 700C and there was a plume of smoke. Yours not showing much smoke may be a result of slow leak. Since my PCV got clogged, it created a significant pressure inside the engine, so I actually burned about 1 qt of oil in a matter of days (if not in 1 day alone). So the moral of the story, if turbo seal is leaking, the PCV is your first culprit. I did have some oil in intercooler, but you normally have some oil in intercooler due to PCV system. And our cars have a lot of blowby normally, mine had it from brand new (open oil cap and you will feel the air breaking from the oil cap).

To check if PCV system is culprit (in my unotrhodox way), open the oil cap and clean the old oil. Then put your mouth against the oil fill opening and blow into it. You shoould have minimal resistance and pressure you create should dissipate. Mine has a feeling of delayed dissipation, I think related to how that PCV valve is routed. But you won't have to strain much to hear and feel that PCV is relieving air properly. If you create pressure with your own lungs and it fails to dissipate, that is your major culprit.

But in my opinion, if you had poor compression, surely your car would not run as smoothly. But I guess everything is relative. Your PCV coming into pieces may have had something to do with it, if may have reduced the ability to ventilate somewhat and if I recall correctly, the PCV breathes into the intake BEFORE turbocharger. So that should be an area of low pressure, right, since that is the "sucking portion". Everything past turbo will be blowing portion, so a higher pressure area. I would also think that vacuum, as lot as it may be, may have helped with PCV also. But I am hypothesizing here. Maybe someone else can jump in and correct me if I am wrong. Best of luck, keep us updated!

hpopmds · 06-30-2021, 03:08 PM

eugene89us thank you again for your tips
My car stills with good power and perfect idle and MPG, no smoke, no leaks.
I think PCV valve is good because i took out the breather pipe and put a rubber glove. I notice that it has pressure, so i think the valve was opened, and the pressure is beeing released.
Soon i will compare the blow-by with my father's N47 318d that has no oil consumption. Then i can discard piston rings wear, and it will leave me just (i think) with the turbo seals issue (like you said).
The turbo issue is my "bet", because:
- oil consumption only in highway/long trips (high revs)
- no significant oil or dirt on the breather tube
- it all started quickly, after an oil change
- i have almost 200.000km mileage

I have to stop this oil burning because DPF soot quickly rises after a regen, and the regens are getting more frequent.

I will keep the post updated, to help each others.
Appreciate your help and other's contributions.
Thank you guys

Enabled · 06-30-2021, 07:23 PM

I would inspect inside intercooler as well.

A poorly running crankcase ventilation system can cause oil burning, and running engine at idle doesn't entirely prove it's running well. However you can get good hints from that test.

hpopmds · 07-03-2021, 02:12 PM

Update:
Today i went for a short 25 + 25km drive, and i was monitoring soot and regens.
It happens that regen occurred 72km only after last regen.
And soot was going up very quickly again.
I sure have some DPF problem, but let me understand :
a) Can the DPF clough cause oil consumption?
or
b) Can the oil burn cause DPF problems?
How can i distinguish? (i am sad with this car)

Enabled · 07-03-2021, 07:30 PM

I would guess you are burning the oil through the intake and the extra rich burn mixture is depositing more soot onto DPF.

hpopmds · 07-04-2021, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enabled

I would guess you are burning the oil through the intake and the extra rich burn mixture is depositing more soot onto DPF.

HI Enabled, and friends. I just came out from inspecting the intake (tube from intercooler to intake). I see a little bit of oil on the junction, but i passed my finger in the interior surface of the pipe and i didn't catch oil (just a little little little coat).
My guess: the turbo isn't leaking from the cold side.

So, the main issue, OIL CONSUMPTION, might have been reduced to : turbo hot side leak, or piston rings. (never forgetting the DPF increased regens, cause or effect).

I'm not a mechanic, but i'm a unquiet mind and if i can't find directly the problem, i want to eliminate 1 by 1 all the 500 possible causes

I love BMW, it's my cars for 23 years, and i think the problem is triggered by a little unknown thing.

Tommi_Mav · 07-09-2021, 12:24 AM

hmendes3,

After reading your findings and since you said the car has more than 200K Km, when was the last time you had your turbo serviced?

My guess is you have oil leak from the turbo seals and it's highly possible problem will be solved with a turbo service.

I had a similar problem with my older Opel Astra 1.6 Turbo. The engine was from a full rebuild at 155K Km (not including turbo) and even then I had similar oil consumption. It got worse to the point that I had to add 1lt/500Km. I rebuilt the turbo and after that, all is ok.
IMHO, any turbo should be serviced after 120K-150K Km (depending on driving style and engine cold-start/hot-stop routine), even just for precautionary reasons.

hpopmds · 07-16-2021, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi_Mav

hmendes3,

After reading your findings and since you said the car has more than 200K Km, when was the last time you had your turbo serviced?

My guess is you have oil leak from the turbo seals and it's highly possible problem will be solved with a turbo service.

I had a similar problem with my older Opel Astra 1.6 Turbo. The engine was from a full rebuild at 155K Km (not including turbo) and even then I had similar oil consumption. It got worse to the point that I had to add 1lt/500Km. I rebuilt the turbo and after that, all is ok.
IMHO, any turbo should be serviced after 120K-150K Km (depending on driving style and engine cold-start/hot-stop routine), even just for precautionary reasons.

Hi. Did your turbo problem made the car blowing smoke? (mine hasn't any)
I think my turbo still is original, so 200 k km it's time.

Tommi_Mav · 07-16-2021, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hmendes3

Hi. Did your turbo problem made the car blowing smoke? (mine hasn't any)
I think my turbo still is original, so 200 k km it's time.

I had no smoke from the exhaust. I occasionally had some smoke from the front of the engine, but it was random. The only thing was that I had a burnt oil smell in the cabin when driving with windows down or with the heater on.

200K Km are a lot for an unserviced turbo, so a service would be good even if the turbo isn't the problem.

Enabled · 07-16-2021, 09:59 AM

Although the Euro N47 got a different turbo, the US Garrett turbos easily go past 250k km and more without service.
200k turbo service is unusual to me.

andreigbs · 07-16-2021, 10:49 AM

After these most recent details, I don't think the turbo is faulty.

You may have a small leak somewhere, if you can smell it in the cabin. It means the oil is coming into contact with hot surfaces, so I would check all around and under the hood after a decently hard drive.

Tommi_Mav · 07-16-2021, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreigbs

After these most recent details, I don't think the turbo is faulty.

You may have a small leak somewhere, if you can smell it in the cabin. It means the oil is coming into contact with hot surfaces, so I would check all around and under the hood after a decently hard drive.

hmendes3 doesn't have these signs in his case.

I had them on my second car, an Opel/Vauxhall Astra 1.6 turbo. I had the turbo overhauled and problem was solved.

valternf · 07-21-2021, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi_Mav

I had no smoke from the exhaust. I occasionally had some smoke from the front of the engine, but it was random. The only thing was that I had a burnt oil smell in the cabin when driving with windows down or with the heater on.

200K Km are a lot for an unserviced turbo, so a service would be good even if the turbo isn't the problem.

Same here. Good to know.

Lazlo · 07-22-2021, 12:25 PM

Hello ,

I have the same problem with the oil consumtion :
-no leaks
-no smoke
- engine start and runs fine .

I have some oil in the breather tube , nothing in the intercooler .
Brand new valve seals , turbo was inspectet and no leaks , the only remaining is the oil rings.
The car has 170k km and she drinks 1l/1200 km . -318d n47

I think the only solution for me is a engine rebuild

hpopmds · 07-24-2021, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazlo

Hello ,

I have the same problem with the oil consumtion :
-no leaks
-no smoke
- engine start and runs fine .

I have some oil in the breather tube , nothing in the intercooler .
Brand new valve seals , turbo was inspectet and no leaks , the only remaining is the oil rings.
The car has 170k km and she drinks 1l/1200 km . -318d n47

I think the only solution for me is a engine rebuild

Do you mean Piston rings?
Yeah, that's frustrating when we can't even find the problem (not even in the workshop). Best luck. Keep us updated with your findings.

n0nee · 09-13-2021, 02:57 PM

I've got the exact same problem with my 318d F30... I really don't know what to do about it. It's constantly doing regens and my DPF gets clogged because of the oil constantly going to the exhaust system.

hpopmds · 09-13-2021, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0nee

I've got the exact same problem with my 318d F30... I really don't know what to do about it. It's constantly doing regens and my DPF gets clogged because of the oil constantly going to the exhaust system.

I still struggling with this, and no luck. Three workshops later (including BMW dealer), no significant repairs (only oil changes), no diagnose

. Turbo is OK, piston rings are OK, intercooler, PCV valve... Everithing is OK... but NOT!!! Something is wrong. The oil disapears. No leaks, no smoke.

But you mentioned a big issue, that i also have, the DPF and constant regenerations! Apart from the oil consumption fight, the workshops had dificulties on diagnosing the DPF too

They have contradictory results: the DPF is clogged, the DPF went to clean, but came back because it was OK, the pressure sensors may be faulty.....

Well, i not a mechanic but as i face this inoperativity and ignorance from the workshops, i try to diagnose this myself.

In conclusion, i am now suspecting that the DPF is really clogged, the internal pressure raises, the frequent regens are injecting diesel into the oil, the oil becames more fluid and evaporates internally with the pressure and is burnt more easily and slowly (in the turbo, in the return pipe of the PCV, in the piston rings). A fact is that the oil has lost its viscosity and smells like diesel.

So, more than a year after, and the data i got, i am now waiting to decide the final solution: a DPF replacement or elimination and reprog.

Hope soon i share the outcome

06-27-2021, 12:07 PM	#1
hpopmds Private 23 Rep 52 Posts Drives: F31 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Spain iTrader: (0)	Crazy oil consumption (1L/2000km) - 318d N47 HELP! please. Where can the oil go? a) No leaks under the car. b) No smoke in any occasion, and low blowby. c) Oil burns more on long trips (not in the city). d) Regens after 100km, and after a regen, soot is rising very quick. e) Oil is frequently changed and is LL4. Assuming there's an internal leak causing oil burn, and that the DPF catches the smoke, only the next 3 items are plausible (i think): 1- Turbo leak 2- Piston rings wear 3- Valve seals Can someone help me please diagnosing? (my car went to 3 diferent workshosps, including BMW dealer, but they didn't make any test (compression, turbo, etc). They just changed the oil).
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

06-27-2021, 08:27 PM	#2
FaRKle! Brigadier General 4007 Rep 3,535 Posts Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Bay Area, CA iTrader: (4) Garage List 2023 BMW i4 eDrive 35 [0.00] 2017 BMW 328dx Wagon [0.00] 2021 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00]	Have you checked the intercooler? That's where a lot of blow by or oil leaking from the turbo will collect.
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

06-29-2021, 04:18 AM	#5
hpopmds Private 23 Rep 52 Posts Drives: F31 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Spain iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the great thread of Eugene88us. I don't have any error codes on Bimmertool. Is there a way to distinguish if the oil in the intercooler hose comes from the turbo or from blow-by? btw: i was inspecting the breather hose, and i broke it! The plastic was really crunchy. But i didn't see any dirt inside and it was not so oily/greasy. - Can the cracked breather hose had afected oil consumption? - Has the oil evaporated through the breather hose? I am sorry, but at this time i have so many questions diagnosing this mystery. (if i can't find directly the problem, i want to eliminate some hypothesis. In the end, i'll get there ) Last edited by hpopmds; 06-29-2021 at 03:05 PM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-30-2021, 11:43 AM	#6
eugene89us First Lieutenant 336 Rep 368 Posts Drives: 2018 BMW 328d Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: MS iTrader: (0)	Thank you both, FaRKle! and hmendes3 As I described in my original thread (and since deleted the oil catch can, that was a nightmare result), I have had zero oil consumption. Usually, oil that collects in the intercooler is most often due to turbo seals leaking. Turbo seals are not "true seals" - they are not fully sealed and any issue with oil OUTFLOW from turbo will result in metal seals coming in contact with oil and leaking it out. Then as it builds in intercooler, it will start going into intake and burning as fuel. Your EGTs will go sky high - you will easily run on EGTs north of 600C even despite no regens happening. Mine got to 700C and there was a plume of smoke. Yours not showing much smoke may be a result of slow leak. Since my PCV got clogged, it created a significant pressure inside the engine, so I actually burned about 1 qt of oil in a matter of days (if not in 1 day alone). So the moral of the story, if turbo seal is leaking, the PCV is your first culprit. I did have some oil in intercooler, but you normally have some oil in intercooler due to PCV system. And our cars have a lot of blowby normally, mine had it from brand new (open oil cap and you will feel the air breaking from the oil cap). To check if PCV system is culprit (in my unotrhodox way), open the oil cap and clean the old oil. Then put your mouth against the oil fill opening and blow into it. You shoould have minimal resistance and pressure you create should dissipate. Mine has a feeling of delayed dissipation, I think related to how that PCV valve is routed. But you won't have to strain much to hear and feel that PCV is relieving air properly. If you create pressure with your own lungs and it fails to dissipate, that is your major culprit. But in my opinion, if you had poor compression, surely your car would not run as smoothly. But I guess everything is relative. Your PCV coming into pieces may have had something to do with it, if may have reduced the ability to ventilate somewhat and if I recall correctly, the PCV breathes into the intake BEFORE turbocharger. So that should be an area of low pressure, right, since that is the "sucking portion". Everything past turbo will be blowing portion, so a higher pressure area. I would also think that vacuum, as lot as it may be, may have helped with PCV also. But I am hypothesizing here. Maybe someone else can jump in and correct me if I am wrong. Best of luck, keep us updated!
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

06-30-2021, 03:08 PM	#7
hpopmds Private 23 Rep 52 Posts Drives: F31 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Spain iTrader: (0)	eugene89us thank you again for your tips My car stills with good power and perfect idle and MPG, no smoke, no leaks. I think PCV valve is good because i took out the breather pipe and put a rubber glove. I notice that it has pressure, so i think the valve was opened, and the pressure is beeing released. Soon i will compare the blow-by with my father's N47 318d that has no oil consumption. Then i can discard piston rings wear, and it will leave me just (i think) with the turbo seals issue (like you said). The turbo issue is my "bet", because: - oil consumption only in highway/long trips (high revs) - no significant oil or dirt on the breather tube - it all started quickly, after an oil change - i have almost 200.000km mileage I have to stop this oil burning because DPF soot quickly rises after a regen, and the regens are getting more frequent. I will keep the post updated, to help each others. Appreciate your help and other's contributions. Thank you guys Last edited by hpopmds; 07-02-2021 at 03:26 AM..
	Appreciate 1 eugene89us336.00 Quote

06-30-2021, 07:23 PM	#8
Enabled Lieutenant Colonel 1406 Rep 1,797 Posts Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	I would inspect inside intercooler as well. A poorly running crankcase ventilation system can cause oil burning, and running engine at idle doesn't entirely prove it's running well. However you can get good hints from that test.
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

07-03-2021, 02:12 PM	#9
hpopmds Private 23 Rep 52 Posts Drives: F31 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Spain iTrader: (0)	Update: Today i went for a short 25 + 25km drive, and i was monitoring soot and regens. It happens that regen occurred 72km only after last regen. And soot was going up very quickly again. I sure have some DPF problem, but let me understand : a) Can the DPF clough cause oil consumption? or b) Can the oil burn cause DPF problems? How can i distinguish? (i am sad with this car)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-03-2021, 07:30 PM	#10
Enabled Lieutenant Colonel 1406 Rep 1,797 Posts Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	I would guess you are burning the oil through the intake and the extra rich burn mixture is depositing more soot onto DPF.
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

07-09-2021, 12:24 AM	#12
Tommi_Mav Private First Class 66 Rep 133 Posts Drives: F32 435dx Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Greece iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 F32 435d X-drive [0.00]	hmendes3, After reading your findings and since you said the car has more than 200K Km, when was the last time you had your turbo serviced? My guess is you have oil leak from the turbo seals and it's highly possible problem will be solved with a turbo service. I had a similar problem with my older Opel Astra 1.6 Turbo. The engine was from a full rebuild at 155K Km (not including turbo) and even then I had similar oil consumption. It got worse to the point that I had to add 1lt/500Km. I rebuilt the turbo and after that, all is ok. IMHO, any turbo should be serviced after 120K-150K Km (depending on driving style and engine cold-start/hot-stop routine), even just for precautionary reasons.
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

07-16-2021, 09:59 AM	#15
Enabled Lieutenant Colonel 1406 Rep 1,797 Posts Drives: 328xd Wagon, M2 Competition Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	Although the Euro N47 got a different turbo, the US Garrett turbos easily go past 250k km and more without service. 200k turbo service is unusual to me.
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

07-16-2021, 10:49 AM	#16
andreigbs Dr Drei 71 Rep 245 Posts Drives: X3d Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: WI iTrader: (0) Garage List '16 X3d [0.00]	After these most recent details, I don't think the turbo is faulty. You may have a small leak somewhere, if you can smell it in the cabin. It means the oil is coming into contact with hot surfaces, so I would check all around and under the hood after a decently hard drive. __________________ GLK 250 // 126xxx miles // 36 MPG // Mobil1 ESP 5w30
	Appreciate 1 hpopmds23.00 Quote

07-22-2021, 12:25 PM	#19
Lazlo Registered 0 Rep 4 Posts Drives: BMW F31 Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Bucuresti iTrader: (0)	Hello , I have the same problem with the oil consumtion : -no leaks -no smoke - engine start and runs fine . I have some oil in the breather tube , nothing in the intercooler . Brand new valve seals , turbo was inspectet and no leaks , the only remaining is the oil rings. The car has 170k km and she drinks 1l/1200 km . -318d n47 I think the only solution for me is a engine rebuild
	Appreciate 0 Quote

09-13-2021, 02:57 PM	#21
n0nee Registered 2 Rep 2 Posts Drives: BMW F30 318d Join Date: Sep 2021 Location: Portugal iTrader: (0)	I've got the exact same problem with my 318d F30... I really don't know what to do about it. It's constantly doing regens and my DPF gets clogged because of the oil constantly going to the exhaust system.
	Appreciate 0 Quote