[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by JNLBC

I read 99% of your OP. All I can say is, why would you go with a 3rd party to lease? What is the incentive versus going direct?

Perhaps you should not have skipped the other 1% in the second paragraph. But then again, as the entire post is 2,295 words and you seemed to have missed 42 words, appears you actually missed more than 1% as 1% = 22.95 words.

Originally Posted by e92er

For months, I tried working with dealerships and finance managers to try and get similar lease prices as EMW but was never successful even getting close. Finally, after ~4 months of trying on my own, I decided to go back to them.

[jzcrna]

I bought from out of state BMW dealer two times, but dread getting that one lemon and being without a loaner or help.

[turbolag]

Originally Posted by jzcrna

What a nightmare!!!! I'm strongly considering going local next vehicle even though I will be paying a bit more. I found a CA locally that I like and will get loaners, etc. Probably worth a little extra just in case.

Man, I really feel for you. That totally blows. Always go with your gut feelings.

The S4 is outdated, you still have a much better car. Just enjoy it, drive it in all modes and learn everything about it

Nah, S4 > 335xi.

S4 was designed to drive well as AWD. xDrive seems like something added as an afterthought.

OP: I feel sorry for you. I hope you're enjoying your new car.

[JN1]

do you still get the same warranty and dealer support for that "better" rate.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by jzcrna

I bought from out of state BMW dealer two times, but dread getting that one lemon and being without a loaner or help.

You need to investigate the lemon law for the state you purchased from to see what your rights are, including if it applies to a car titled in another state. Also what happens if the car is "stranded" out of state (probably does not matter, but worth checking into prior to signing- or you might be stuck with a large transport charge).

Any USA dealer can do the warranty work covered by BMWNA.

In virtually every case, the loaner will not be coming your way.

My rule of thumb is if the out of state purchase does not save over $30 a month in the payment, it is not worth the risk. I purchased a Toyota on lease from NY in Feb '09 (car sales stopped because of the economy tanking and they were taking baths to get them off the lots) and the difference in lease was close to $100 a month just like the OP. Because Toyota is really owned by 3 different Companies, depending on the state, and TFS was offering incredible rates in the states they owned, which is not the SE, I understand why this happened in my case. Given that BMW seems to really push the residual in their valuation, I find it strange that a different money source came in so much cheaper for the OP - and given the description of the operation - and cannot help but wonder what the true "source" of the money really was, not implying the OP or the Leasing Company was involved in any money laundering scheme.

[ghostchili]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

This story also tells you all the dangers of buying out of State Dealership, which negates what you are saying.

We have had at least 3 stories on the F30 forum in the last 3 months alone of people who did a deal out of state and had similar nightmares.

That may be true, but I have yet to see Steve Thomas treat anyone in a negative way.

[Kabrich]

Originally Posted by ghostchili

That may be true, but I have yet to see Steve Thomas treat anyone in a negative way.

A simple search online finds complaints against both. However, reading about EMW sounds very similar when it comes to the OP about getting in touch with someone and lack of return phone calls.

As a result, Steve Thomas is rated B+ on the BBB website and EMW has a C rating.

Not that the BBB is squeaky clean always, but it does give pause to investigate more before moving forward with them

[carzaddict]

Originally Posted by JNLBC

do you still get the same warranty and dealer support for that "better" rate.

yes you still get the same warranty.

as for dealer support....its not that you dont get ANY dealer support. but obviously as any dealer...they will take care of their own customers before they take care of yours. with that being said even if you bought your car from a BMW dealership and you try to take it to another dealership...you'll get the same bs

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by Kabrich

A simple search online finds complaints against both. However, reading about EMW sounds very similar when it comes to the OP about getting in touch with someone and lack of return phone calls.

As a result, Steve Thomas is rated B+ on the BBB website and EMW has a C rating.

Not that the BBB is squeaky clean always, but it does give pause to investigate more before moving forward with them

Be careful about drawing conclusions based on online rants. It's a very biased reference. Especially given the fact that there are many who pursue the absolute bottom price without considering the value of good service. When things go well, their tolerance for poor service isn't tested. When things don't go well they learn very quickly what they gave up. And they tend to make lots of noise about it.

[infinitigor]

why would it be their problem once they deliver the car? the car is now your and bmw's problem- they did their part of the deal

3rd party dealers are THE WAY TO GO. My car came straight from a jersey dealer - that my leasing dealer got it sent from.

The deal I got was 525 with taxes included was first month, security deposit, random fees for a total of 1900 down at signing- at a dealer it would have been 600 at least. i have a close relationship with my dealer and always get my cars fixed

if it werent for u getting a lemon i think you would still like 3rd party dealers

[DSTJ99]

How do the 3rd party dealers go lower? Volume discounts? Some of the figures suggested ($100 savings) would have to be thousands below invoice right? I also took advantage of the MSD program.

[punjabij]

Thanks for the post OP and for the great forum.

I was looking at EMW also, because their rates are much lower than any dealers were able to provide.
BUT as they say ... you get what you pay for.
No way in hell I'm taking the chance of going through that crap.
Sure 3rd party dealers may be able to get lower rates through volume, but their has to be some kind of responsibility.
Seems like they waited for your signature and money and see ya later.
I think though this shouldn't be an indication of all 3rd party vendors. I'm sure other vendors would be more professional than EMW. I think EMW really probably gives a bad rap to 3rd party vendors in general.

Research and word of mouth goes a long way in warning people to stay clear of places like EMW.

[badfish718]

Thanks a lot for posting your experience! I am leasing 2 new cars in the next month for family members and have been considering this place.

These Russian-run lease brokers are popping up EVERYWHERE here in Staten Island and Brooklyn. To me, they scream "scam"...generic business names, pictures of Bugattis/Lambos on their awnings, websites that look like they were put together in an hour, etc. I do know of a few people who have used these places with no problem and gotten great deals. I have not actually used one myself but have contacted a few for quotes. They are always much lower than the quotes dealers give me.

On my current F30 I used a broker but it wasn't a pop-up location like these. I paid a fee upfront, sent a screenshot of the car build from BMW configurator, and my guy found a similar one within 72 hours. All of the paperwork went through a BMW of Orange County where I picked up the car. The price was already agreed upon, so aside from a half-hearted pitch for "rustproofing" and a normal push for rim & tire insurance, the entire process took 15 minutes with no games whatsoever.

My only gripe was that my broker wouldn't give me a quote without paying for it...$99 each. Being that these new places advertise very low lease deals right out in the open, I couldn't understand why mine wouldn't just tell me figures for free. The reason was his quotes were backed by him in writing with a guarantee to deliver, so you can use them as bargaining chips bringing them to dealerships. I had emailed/called every BMW dealer within 150 miles of NYC, showed them the quote in writing and nobody wanted any part of matching, let alone beating it. So I paid the bigger fee and had him find the car for me, price locked in.

My sticker wound up being exactly 57K and my monthly is 490, no cap reduction and unable to do MSDs being in NY State. Due at signing was tax, bank, and doc fee, which I chose to do at the very last minute instead of a total sign and drive scenario.

Regarding these places like Exotic and the now countless similarly named others, there has to be something a little fugazi going on. Seems to be not much room for profit on either the broker or dealer ends, yet I can't keep track of how many I have seen open recently in my area. I'm sorry your experience sucked but I truly do appreciate you sharing it on here, as someone who was considering going that route in the very near future. I am going to stick with my same guy going forward and use them for estimates. My guy beat all their quotes anyway and provided much better service when you take into account how picky and annoying I was during the process! My conclusion is that it's damn hard to beat a broker who gets volume-based pricing, but you need to take into account what would happen if a problem arises.

edit: btw my broker's website is insidecarbuying.com if anyone is interested...there's no referral incentive for me, it was just a great experience I wanted to share

[marseille82]

Originally Posted by infinitigor

why would it be their problem once they deliver the car? the car is now your and bmw's problem- they did their part of the deal

3rd party dealers are THE WAY TO GO. My car came straight from a jersey dealer - that my leasing dealer got it sent from.

The deal I got was 525 with taxes included was first month, security deposit, random fees for a total of 1900 down at signing- at a dealer it would have been 600 at least. i have a close relationship with my dealer and always get my cars fixed

if it werent for u getting a lemon i think you would still like 3rd party dealers

There is no exact science here. I'm paying about the same as you and went through a dealer.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

How exactly is BMW implicated other than building the car? Is the lease through BMWNA? I hate to say it, but you're not the customer to BMW.

I don't think BMW is that stupid to consider the broker the customer. Of course OP is the customer. Who pays the money, who drives the car and who will (or will not) order another BMW. Not the broker.

Bad customer service is considering the broker the customer and not the REAL customer.

[ft1330]

I too looked at "Internet" and out of state dealers (forums sponsors, etc.) and honestly the savings compared to a negotiated price at my local dealership was $300 at most (on the entire car). Decided to go local and I don't regret it since it looks like this damn car will be at the shop quite a bit.

Also when I read "Russian" I thought, that's it, you're screwed man.

[f30er]

Originally Posted by punjabij

Thanks for the post OP and for the great forum.

I was looking at EMW also, because their rates are much lower than any dealers were able to provide.
BUT as they say ... you get what you pay for.
No way in hell I'm taking the chance of going through that crap.
Sure 3rd party dealers may be able to get lower rates through volume, but their has to be some kind of responsibility.
Seems like they waited for your signature and money and see ya later.
I think though this shouldn't be an indication of all 3rd party vendors. I'm sure other vendors would be more professional than EMW. I think EMW really probably gives a bad rap to 3rd party vendors in general.

Research and word of mouth goes a long way in warning people to stay clear of places like EMW.

Definitely got what I paid for!

Originally Posted by badfish718

Thanks a lot for posting your experience! I am leasing 2 new cars in the next month for family members and have been considering this place.

These Russian-run lease brokers are popping up EVERYWHERE here in Staten Island and Brooklyn. To me, they scream "scam"...generic business names, pictures of Bugattis/Lambos on their awnings, websites that look like they were put together in an hour, etc. I do know of a few people who have used these places with no problem and gotten great deals. I have not actually used one myself but have contacted a few for quotes. They are always much lower than the quotes dealers give me.

On my current F30 I used a broker but it wasn't a pop-up location like these. I paid a fee upfront, sent a screenshot of the car build from BMW configurator, and my guy found a similar one within 72 hours. All of the paperwork went through a BMW of Orange County where I picked up the car. The price was already agreed upon, so aside from a half-hearted pitch for "rustproofing" and a normal push for rim & tire insurance, the entire process took 15 minutes with no games whatsoever.

My only gripe was that my broker wouldn't give me a quote without paying for it...$99 each. Being that these new places advertise very low lease deals right out in the open, I couldn't understand why mine wouldn't just tell me figures for free. The reason was his quotes were backed by him in writing with a guarantee to deliver, so you can use them as bargaining chips bringing them to dealerships. I had emailed/called every BMW dealer within 150 miles of NYC, showed them the quote in writing and nobody wanted any part of matching, let alone beating it. So I paid the bigger fee and had him find the car for me, price locked in.

My sticker wound up being exactly 57K and my monthly is 490, no cap reduction and unable to do MSDs being in NY State. Due at signing was tax, bank, and doc fee, which I chose to do at the very last minute instead of a total sign and drive scenario.

Regarding these places like Exotic and the now countless similarly named others, there has to be something a little fugazi going on. Seems to be not much room for profit on either the broker or dealer ends, yet I can't keep track of how many I have seen open recently in my area. I'm sorry your experience sucked but I truly do appreciate you sharing it on here, as someone who was considering going that route in the very near future. I am going to stick with my same guy going forward and use them for estimates. My guy beat all their quotes anyway and provided much better service when you take into account how picky and annoying I was during the process! My conclusion is that it's damn hard to beat a broker who gets volume-based pricing, but you need to take into account what would happen if a problem arises.

edit: btw my broker's website is insidecarbuying.com if anyone is interested...there's no referral incentive for me, it was just a great experience I wanted to share

Thanks for the site info! I'm looking for a new car for my wife but after all this, I'm just gonna walk into a dealer and get something off the lot!

Originally Posted by ft1330

I don't think BMW is that stupid to consider the broker the customer. Of course OP is the customer. Who pays the money, who drives the car and who will (or will not) order another BMW. Not the broker.

Bad customer service is considering the broker the customer and not the REAL customer.

Yea BMWNA was worthless, rude, and incompetent. They're stance is that since they gave me a "new" car instead of repairing the "old" one, they don't owe me anything for the month of crap I went through. Initially, the GM for the dealership these brokers go (BMW Newton) though pretended to be nice and helpful, but in the end, did nothing either. Again, it's because the car was leased by the broker and then to me. BMWNA doesn't care about being logical. To them, since I went through a broker to get the car, I should go through a broker if I want anything for the car. Haven't had any major service or anything done but hopefully down the line, having gone through a broker doesn't cause any more problems...

[bkM3]

it just sounds like you got involved with the wrong company. although crappy situations do happen there is no excuse for this guy to not get back to you in a prompt manner.

i have been in this business for years and it sucks when one or two companies ruin it for the hard working and honest guys.

[bkM3]

Originally Posted by e92er

Definitely got what I paid for!



Thanks for the site info! I'm looking for a new car for my wife but after all this, I'm just gonna walk into a dealer and get something off the lot!



Yea BMWNA was worthless, rude, and incompetent. They're stance is that since they gave me a "new" car instead of repairing the "old" one, they don't owe me anything for the month of crap I went through. Initially, the GM for the dealership these brokers go (BMW Newton) though pretended to be nice and helpful, but in the end, did nothing either. Again, it's because the car was leased by the broker and then to me. BMWNA doesn't care about being logical. To them, since I went through a broker to get the car, I should go through a broker if I want anything for the car. Haven't had any major service or anything done but hopefully down the line, having gone through a broker doesn't cause any more problems...

this last paragraph is incorrect. the car is never leased by the broker. it is leased directly to you. it makes no difference to BMWNA if you went through a broker or not because at the end of the day it goes through a SA at the dealership that the car came from.

[Cyberdemon]

I struggle to understand how a third party can have such dramatically better rates than BMW. Even if they charge a lower interest rate, lend to people with sub par credit, what else can they do to make that big of a dent? Shouldn't the dealer ultimately have the "Best" volume discount?

[glangford]

Originally Posted by badfish718

Thanks a lot for posting your experience! I am leasing 2 new cars in the next month for family members and have been considering this place.

These Russian-run lease brokers are popping up EVERYWHERE here in Staten Island and Brooklyn. To me, they scream "scam"...generic business names, pictures of Bugattis/Lambos on their awnings, websites that look like they were put together in an hour, etc. I do know of a few people who have used these places with no problem and gotten great deals. I have not actually used one myself but have contacted a few for quotes. They are always much lower than the quotes dealers give me.

On my current F30 I used a broker but it wasn't a pop-up location like these. I paid a fee upfront, sent a screenshot of the car build from BMW configurator, and my guy found a similar one within 72 hours. All of the paperwork went through a BMW of Orange County where I picked up the car. The price was already agreed upon, so aside from a half-hearted pitch for "rustproofing" and a normal push for rim & tire insurance, the entire process took 15 minutes with no games whatsoever.

My only gripe was that my broker wouldn't give me a quote without paying for it...$99 each. Being that these new places advertise very low lease deals right out in the open, I couldn't understand why mine wouldn't just tell me figures for free. The reason was his quotes were backed by him in writing with a guarantee to deliver, so you can use them as bargaining chips bringing them to dealerships. I had emailed/called every BMW dealer within 150 miles of NYC, showed them the quote in writing and nobody wanted any part of matching, let alone beating it. So I paid the bigger fee and had him find the car for me, price locked in.

My sticker wound up being exactly 57K and my monthly is 490, no cap reduction and unable to do MSDs being in NY State. Due at signing was tax, bank, and doc fee, which I chose to do at the very last minute instead of a total sign and drive scenario.

Regarding these places like Exotic and the now countless similarly named others, there has to be something a little fugazi going on. Seems to be not much room for profit on either the broker or dealer ends, yet I can't keep track of how many I have seen open recently in my area. I'm sorry your experience sucked but I truly do appreciate you sharing it on here, as someone who was considering going that route in the very near future. I am going to stick with my same guy going forward and use them for estimates. My guy beat all their quotes anyway and provided much better service when you take into account how picky and annoying I was during the process! My conclusion is that it's damn hard to beat a broker who gets volume-based pricing, but you need to take into account what would happen if a problem arises.

edit: btw my broker's website is insidecarbuying.com if anyone is interested...there's no referral incentive for me, it was just a great experience I wanted to share

Money Laundering