[fsugatorbait2]

This thread is full of great information, thank you kern417 for all of your efforts.

With the understanding that this mod is still new, does anyone have any long term concerns about the higher pressure pump wearing out the regulator or injectors sooner than the stock pump would?

[kern417]

Originally Posted by fsugatorbait2

This thread is full of great information, thank you kern417 for all of your efforts.

With the understanding that this mod is still new, does anyone have any long term concerns about the higher pressure pump wearing out the regulator or injectors sooner than the stock pump would?

I'll put it like this, think of the fuel pressure regulator like a wastegate. You can change the boost up and down at will, and the wastegate can control it within a certain amount of air flow. Above a certain threshold, the wastegate simply cannot allow enough air out to regulate boost, so you need a bigger one.

Same for the FPR. It's related to flow, not pressure. If anything, pumps that flow more than the TU pump are more likely to hit the limits of the FPR. But that's based on how much fuel you're using.

That's why I said before that it didn't make sense for the pump to create an issue with fuel pressure. BUT the real risk I do see is the safety valve that protects the system in case the FPR fails. It would bleed off pressure to protect the fuel system just above the 200bar standard pressure. I'm just not concerned since I haven't heard of a failed FPR in ever on a modern DI engine. I don't think we'll hit the limits any time soon, especially since people are pushing 600whp + through the stock fuel system with just a pump upgrade.

[M140_BCS]

Originally Posted by DreckSoft

Maybe if you and M140_BCS do a few detailed pictures of the connector we can find out what was changed.

The whole connector and metal section on the side of the pump has been rotated as one. The QR code printed on it has moved round 180 degrees.

[misguided_will]

when would upgrading the pump be needed?

im just thinking stage 1..downpipe, intake and a flash.

do i need one?

[mbanks21]

Originally Posted by misguided_will

when would upgrading the pump be needed?

im just thinking stage 1..downpipe, intake and a flash.

do i need one?

No

[MPJ88]

Originally Posted by misguided_will

when would upgrading the pump be needed?

im just thinking stage 1..downpipe, intake and a flash.

do i need one?

To make the most of downpipe with a custom tune then yes. Mine was hitting limits of fuel pump without a downpipe.

[kern417]

You don't need it for any OTS map. I'd even go so far to say those that have experienced fuel pump crashes on OTS maps should investigate other failure modes before upgrading pumps.

Our biggest hurdle is boost spikes and throttle closures, and those tend to create more fueling issues than the tune itself. Our crappy wastegates can't seem to control boost well on a lot of cars, and fixing that would allow you to make the same power without hitting fuel limits. If your tune is calling for 16-18psi and you're hitting 20, then that is your problem. The pump just compensates for crappy boost control.

It's only needed if you want a custom tune to run more boost or higher ethanol content.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by kern417

You don't need it for any OTS map. I'd even go so far to say those that have experienced fuel pump crashes on OTS maps should investigate other failure modes before upgrading pumps.

Our biggest hurdle is boost spikes and throttle closures, and those tend to create more fueling issues than the tune itself. Our crappy wastegates can't seem to control boost well on a lot of cars, and fixing that would allow you to make the same power without hitting fuel limits. If your tune is calling for 16-18psi and you're hitting 20, then that is your problem. The pump just compensates for crappy boost control.

It's only needed if you want a custom tune to run more boost or higher ethanol content.

are you saying that fueling targets are based off of boost target / load target, rather than boost actual / load actual? if so, what you are saying could make a lot of sense if the fuel is just trying to compensate for the deviation between target and actual and thus crashes. however, i'd challenge that the response rate of the hpfp should be fast enough to compensate for this deviation.

OR, are you instead saying that 20psi overshoot is the limit?

[kern417]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

are you saying that fueling targets are based off of boost target / load target, rather than boost actual / load actual? if so, what you are saying could make a lot of sense if the fuel is just trying to compensate for the deviation between target and actual and thus crashes. however, i'd challenge that the response rate of the hpfp should be fast enough to compensate for this deviation.

OR, are you instead saying that 20psi overshoot is the limit?

what I'm saying is that your hpfp can support a limited amount of airflow for a given fuel. If it goes above that boost pressure, fuel pressure will drop since the injectors are open for too long in an attempt to maintain afr targets with the increased airflow.

it's simple in theory. Just target a boost pressure that's 1-2 psi below that threshold and send it. But for whatever reason, our car says fuck you i'm going to hit your target +2psi anyway. So then your boost goes over target and the throttle angle closes in an attempt to bring boost back in check. If you're already operating near the fuel limits, that also translates to hpfp pressure dropping because now the airflow is above the hpfp capability.

it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do to protect the engine, but there's no good reason why it should need to "protect the engine." but our wastegate sucks, so the DME has to work overtime and pull throttle to keep things in check.

Over time I'm just seeing how lacking the system is. It works ok, but there's a lot of room for improvement. We've been experiencing throttle closures since the JB4 days and to be frank OTS tunes haven't fixed it. Everything runs smoother but throttle closures are still very common. I even see throttle closures when logging my stock tune, though it's minimal.

[Supr3me]

Just completed my B58TU pump install yesterday using this DIY and it went down exactly as advertised. Everything was very smooth except the fuel rail connection. You will need to carefully make some bending adjustments to get it to mate up with the new pump outlet. It's only off about 3%, but you want to make sure it mates up perfectly to avoid crossthreading the nut.

Thanks again kern417

[janea1207]

Originally Posted by Sµpreme

Just completed my B58TU pump install yesterday using this DIY and it went down exactly as advertised. Everything was very smooth except the fuel rail connection. You will need to carefully make some bending adjustments to get it to mate up with the new pump outlet. It's only off about 3%, but you want to make sure it mates up perfectly to avoid crossthreading the nut.

Thanks again kern417

didn't change the orientation of connector?

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by janea1207

didn't change the orientation of connector?

No, I purchased the extender from BMS and cut about 1" of material out from the heat insulation foam to accommodate where the electrical connector sticks up. I don't know why anyone would bother trying to turn or modify the pump, they're solving a problem that IMO doesn't exist.

[F30MGM]

So with the upgrade pump do i choose XDI Pump when flashing MHD?

[Supr3me]

Originally Posted by F30MGM

So with the upgrade pump do i choose XDI Pump when flashing MHD?

I contacted MHD and asked if they have any support for the HDP6 and here's the response I got:

Hello Martial.
I am a current MHD user, B58 stage 2 E30 map.
I have just installed the upgraded B58TU fuel pump (Supra pump).
Do you plan to provide an option for customers with support for this fueling upgrade?

Hi,

the pump works plug and play if you want more power then you need to order a full custom tune.

Best regards
Momir

[F30MGM]

Gotcha so not exactly PNP

[ronanz]

Originally Posted by F30MGM

Gotcha so not exactly PNP

What part of "...not exactly PNP" are you referring to?



.

[F30MGM]

Originally Posted by ronanz

What part of "...not exactly PNP" are you referring to?



.

pnp as in get the benefits of the supra pump. Has to be custom tuned

[ronanz]

Originally Posted by F30MGM

pnp as in get the benefits of the supra pump. Has to be custom tuned

Well of course....your cars not a Supra....nor does it have the Supra DME tables. You now have to "re-program" your BMW DME to maximize the new pumps volume. However, your car will still operate WOT thru the RPM band...just like it was stock without a custom "tune"

I'd say that's pretty PnP

.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by F30MGM

pnp as in get the benefits of the supra pump. Has to be custom tuned

It is plug and play, but it is not a power adder. It increases your power capacity. Like putting in a stronger clutch or axles. If you want to use it to it's full capacity, then you need a custom tune to increase boost and take advantage of your additional fueling headroom.

*POTENTIALLY* tuners like BM3 and MHD will make a high output map for people that have fuel pumps. But don't expect it any time soon.

[DreckSoft]

I just got my upgrade pump and had a look at the connector issue. It seems it's just fixed my pressure. There is a weld point holding it together. Likely it can be easily turned when you open it but I don't think the UK eBay guy did that. Likely it can be turned by some force if you have a tool to firmly hold it. Unfortunately I don't have the necessary equipment.

Did anyone else made progress?

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by kern417

It is plug and play, but it is not a power adder. It increases your power capacity. Like putting in a stronger clutch or axles. If you want to use it to it's full capacity, then you need a custom tune to increase boost and take advantage of your additional fueling headroom.

*POTENTIALLY* tuners like BM3 and MHD will make a high output map for people that have fuel pumps. But don't expect it any time soon.

How is the TU HPFP holding up esp now you have the BM3 2+ map? I'm deciding whether to use a TU or Dorch.

[Fuel-It!]

The TU is a great option IMHO because it's a factory part so you know it's going to last. The aftermarkets are still unproven at this time. So far on our Z4 no issues supporting straight E85 on the factory turbo up to 500whp and I'm sure it will support a lot more than that. BMS has them in stock and ready to ship with the adapter if anyone needs.