[stevehecht]

Wow, a turbo timer, what a concept! Thanks for the heads-up on that. Do you have any recommendations for brands or are they all pretty much the same? I'm the type who would definitely need one.

[sy74vt96]

What made you go with RaceChip Pro2 and not just the regular RaceChip. The specs are about the same between the two.

[kevinmac]

Don't really have a recommendation but I've seen people use hks. I would say it's not necessary but if you really drive it hard even towards the end of your run, then, yes I would say its worth it.
As for why pro2?
I didn't see many reviews and $600 was a bit to gamble for a temporary solution.
I went middle road, and at least the processor is faster, casing and connector updated. Processor speed has to play a major role, so I felt upgrading to the next level should be fine. I'm not sure how much computation goes on exactly but like any computer, how fast is fast enough? I took a chance with it, but for the price, can't beat the difference!
I wasn't too scared with racechip, as they were very responsive to emails, they have install videos on YouTube, and I couldn't find any bad reviews on their product, and they seem pretty active with their product.
If there was something catastrophic about their product, "Google" and the "Internet" would've found it...

[kevinmac]

So as for my first mpg test...
I received the chip set to E0 (emailed racechip about "Eco tune" and they said E0 would be it)
Definitely an increase from stock, a nice pickup from a dead stop. There is still a difference from Eco pro, Comfort, and sport modes.

Their Level 1 recommendation: D1
Their Level 2 recommendation: E2

I am currently running it in D1 and it has a butt dyno increase from E0. Engine definitely screams more and I could probably break loose from a dead stop if I tried.

We went for a good drive last weekend with the 328d on Eco pro mode. I would've expected the normal ~45mpg, but came home with a 40mpg drive. I drove for the most part lightly with a few bursts through traffic, but nothing out of the ordinary for me on a relaxed drive. Engine seems to run at higher RPMs or stays in lower gears for longer periods than E0, and it's probably where the mpg is lost. But it keeps the throttle response faster.

I will be switching to level 2 and see how engines reacts to it, hopefully enjoy it that way for a while before going back to E0 to test their "Eco tune".

[turborevdboy1113]

Subscribed!

[kevinmac]

I asked racechip why they chose common rail instead of individual injectors like competitors? Any advantage or disadvantages? And their response:

"Common rail gets you to the goal of changing the characteristic of the engine.
We have a injection kit in development for release later this year but they will be considerably more expensive like competitors and is meant for vehicles that have issues with common rail. "

Now does that mean they are seeing issues with common rail hookup? Is communication just faster or will they be monitoring other parameters for a safer tune?
Or are they just trying to compete with other companies using this method claiming better results?

I wish he would've expanded on his response a little more.
But take it how you want, but for me, there must be a reason to change, and I don't think it's only because some vehicles have issues with commonrail hookup. I asked them to chime in to this thread, but they said they don't have the manpower to follow up with all the forums....

So far engines seems ok with this tune, but I am being cautious. Also, just spoke with Cobb tuning and unfortunately they don't have any dyno map tunes for the N47 and don't see any future plans for it. Looks like my long term route will be waiting for PPK or if I can't wait, may end up just getting the better style chip tuner, like KS as Steve mentioned.
I'm still using this chip tuner for now though, have yet to go level 2...

[stevehecht]

Kudos for following up on this, kevinmac. It confirms my suspicion that for that extra $1K or whatever you are getting something for your money, probably some additional margin of safety and ease of wear and tear on the engine. If RaceChip and other competitors felt that "the big four" (AC Schnitzer, Kelleners Sport, Hartge, and Steinbauer Performance) were emperors wearing no clothes they would have no compunction calling them out on it, since they are competitors after all. I haven't read any competitor online doing that. But no, it looks more like RaceChip is saying, "if you can't beat them join them". It must mean that sales of the more expensive modules are substantial enough to be worth chasing. All very interesting.

[kevinmac]

I was a bit disappointed in the response. If I was a representative, I probably would've defended and explained more the reasons behind their choice of commonrail hookup, but he was rather quick in mentioning their development in direct injection systems.

I think the concern for most people would be the engine safety factor. Not everyone consistently push their engine or track their car.
Modifying your engine characteristic will be risky whether it's commonrail or direct injection.
For someone just needing the extra boost, I still want to know if direct injection monitors more parameters with a feedback loop to protect the engine in someway, otherwise the only benefit I can see is more precise fuel delivery and timing to each injector, which would result in faster throttle response and fuel economy.
I just submitted the question to racechip awaiting their response.
I think there are a lot if people out there, willing to spend $3-600 on a chip tune, if they only want a little boost from stock. Those who plan to track their car, should not hesitate in spending the 2k in direct injection control.
I'm curious what their response would be to this, as some friends are still interested in their product.
I think the biggest factor would be safety, if there is a huge safety addition to direct injection then I see no reason to even consider commonrail chip tuning.
I still hold some confidence in their product, as I've said before, I can't find any bad feedback on their product.
...all this, but I'm still satisfied and enjoying how much better the car drives and feels with tune, I've been so satisfied with level 1, I haven't moved back to their factory setting or even seen the need to increase to level 2 yet
Give me some time and I will eventually test their level 2, and I am still curious on their "Eco tune" and see if any mileage increase is even possible with a faster throttle response and increased boost....

[kevinmac]

"The common rail variant as safer as it still goes through the original ecu of the vehicle. Modifying the injectors is past the ecu so any original safety margins are not being considered anymore.
It isn't particularly faster or more efficient to modify the injectors - just a different way to address a goal of increasing power.
RaceChip has been used for years in Europe and elsewhere with great results. To show our confidence in the tune we now offer a free engine warranty for customers located in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Not by an external party but directly included from RaceChip. If there was an issue with the engines we would be out of business in no time..."

I think that clears up a lot of confusion! Wow, now that's a better response!

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by kevinmac

"The common rail variant as safer as it still goes through the original ecu of the vehicle. Modifying the injectors is past the ecu so any original safety margins are not being considered anymore.
It isn't particularly faster or more efficient to modify the injectors - just a different way to address a goal of increasing power.
RaceChip has been used for years in Europe and elsewhere with great results. To show our confidence in the tune we now offer a free engine warranty for customers located in Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Not by an external party but directly included from RaceChip. If there was an issue with the engines we would be out of business in no time..."

I think that clears up a lot of confusion! Wow, now that's a better response!

Thanks for being persistent with them--very good information. I'm a bit confused when they say "modifying the injectors is past the ECU" because the "direct injector" modules like KS, Schnitzer, etc. still allow the ECU full control of timing. Here is a statement from Steinbauer Performance:

"The desired performance enhancement is achieved by changing the injection duration, the same way the system was originally designed to operate. This also allows precise fuel control throughout the full rpm range of the engine. Injection duration is achieved by adding pulse width to a signal, (i.e. at end of injection). This is not changing timing—that’s best left to the factory ECU. Our module also does not interfere with common rail pressure - making our module the best choice for your engine."

http://www.steinbauer.cc/us/products...80kw__4ly/bg3/

And I received this via email from Gilles Petit from Kelleners Sport earlier this year:

The Kelleners module works under influence of the original ECU that means if there is any problem on the engine the power increase is disabled (that it is not the case for cheaper devices).

I don't think I would say that the more expensive direct injection piggybacks provide a massive margin of safety over the CR type. That margin probably increases the harder you run your engine, as you've said. Personally, I'm willing to pay $1K extra even if that margin of safety/less stress is relatively small because, well, it is the engine, and also because I plan on holding on to my 328d for 8-10 years like I've done in the past.

[kevinmac]

I'm not sure if commonrail is safer because it still manipulates data to ecu for increased fuel or duration, I think they started away from injectors because injector models connect directly to injectors meaning the ecu still has an "influence" but still, your chip tuner hardware need to be as precise in repeat ability and reliability as a factory ecu, to distribute the right pulses at the right timing. I'm not sure if he means connecting to common rail would be less risky as the ecu is still responsible in controlling injector timing and pulses? But I would think chip tune intercepts that data and provides injectors different pulses anyway?
I still think advantage to injectors would be communication speed and full control of duration to the injectors resulting in quicker more accurate throttle response.
Either way it's risky to modify from any point, I was more curious if the injector type monitors more parameters to disable which it doesn't and still relies on ecu to determine that.
Good to know more on how it works though...

[kevinmac]

Software installed and already got 1 yr token, waiting in prebuilt cable(too busy/lazy to build myself) to start some f30 coding!
Something tells me I should remove the piggyback first?

[kevinmac]

Update on MPG:
Its been at least a week if not more, driving in Racechips Level 1 1 setting. The long trip seemed to have lost MPG's, but we did have the AC on pretty high throughout that entire drive, I remember it being a really hot day heading to the car show.
I had to rethink this, because mileage in the city is actually a little better than I expected now. Its currently at ~37+mpg. Stock would vary from 35-37. Now, with a more normal driving habit, (ok spirited a little more) I still managed to pull the higher end on the stock MPG! May have to do another long drive again, but honestly, this car will see more city, anyway, and can't be more impressed at the power and mpg output in this current setting.
Still working on coding some things on this F30, but level 2 will be coming

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

Wow, a turbo timer, what a concept! Thanks for the heads-up on that. Do you have any recommendations for brands or are they all pretty much the same? I'm the type who would definitely need one.

You don't need one. Turbo timers are old skool, developed when turbo's were oil cooled only. Modern turbo's have a water cooling jacket, better oils, etc.

Plus Diesel EGT is far lower than petrol, hence why they can use Variable vane technology on Diesels, but not on petrols (Porsche are the only ones using VNT in petrol applications I know of).

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

You don't need one. Turbo timers are old skool, developed when turbo's were oil cooled only. Modern turbo's have a water cooling jacket, better oils, etc.

Plus Diesel EGT is far lower than petrol, hence why they can use Variable vane technology on Diesels, but not on petrols (Porsche are the only ones using VNT in petrol applications I know of).

I started a separate thread on this topic http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=971844 Would you mind taking a look at that, and in particular post #8 by floydarogers? I'd be interested in your response to what he said there. Thanks!

[kevinmac]

If you drive it that hard, and too lazy, just get a turbo timer, old school, yes (lol), but safer is better than sorry. Otherwise, idle on the hard drives just a little and that goes a long way.
From what I've read so far you should be more about your timing chain than your turbo. Or did they finally resolve that issue on this n47?!

[sy74vt96]

Originally Posted by kevinmac

If you drive it that hard, and too lazy, just get a turbo timer, old school, yes (lol), but safer is better than sorry. Otherwise, idle on the hard drives just a little and that goes a long way.
From what I've read so far you should be more about your timing chain than your turbo. Or did they finally resolve that issue on this n47?!

Uh, what is this "issue" regarding timing chain? I'm googling it right now!

[KeyserSöze]

I have a 2014 328d and got this email from Michael Drawz at AC-Schnitzer:

The 328d is US version of the European 320d with the same engine and hp. For the 320d we do offer an engine tuning that most probably will also work on the US 328d. BUT we know that these vehicles do have other injectors. Therefore we cannot release our kit for your vehicle without extensive testing, which is a problem, as we don´t have such vehicles here in Germany. We will work with AC Schnitzer USA on a solution. Below you will find their contact information:

AC Schnitzer USA
German Tuning Corporation
1711 McGaw Avenue
Irvine, CA 92614

Contact Person: Andreas Hartmann
ph: 949.863.0015
fax: 949.863.1944
cell: 949.394.5860
e-mail: andreas@acschnitzer-us.com
Internet: www.acschnitzer-us.com

Best regards
Michael Drawz
Export Sales

I called Andreas and gave him my VIN. I am waiting to hear back from him on this.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by sy74vt96

Uh, what is this "issue" regarding timing chain? I'm googling it right now!

Early N47 engines (which have the timing chain at the back of the engine!) had a propensity to throw or skip their chains, resulting in un-fun valve-piston interactions. They've changed/upgraded part numbers a couple times (AFAIKT) so I wouldn't worry.

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by KeyserSöze

I have a 2014 328d and got this email from Michael Drawz at AC-Schnitzer:

The 328d is US version of the European 320d with the same engine and hp. For the 320d we do offer an engine tuning that most probably will also work on the US 328d. BUT we know that these vehicles do have other injectors. Therefore we cannot release our kit for your vehicle without extensive testing, which is a problem, as we don´t have such vehicles here in Germany. We will work with AC Schnitzer USA on a solution. Below you will find their contact information:

AC Schnitzer USA
German Tuning Corporation
1711 McGaw Avenue
Irvine, CA 92614

Contact Person: Andreas Hartmann
ph: 949.863.0015
fax: 949.863.1944
cell: 949.394.5860
e-mail: andreas@acschnitzer-us.com
Internet: www.acschnitzer-us.com

Best regards
Michael Drawz
Export Sales

I called Andreas and gave him my VIN. I am waiting to hear back from him on this.

Wow, I dealt with Kelleners Sport extensively via email regarding their tuning module for the 320/328d N47d20 and they never brought up this issue. That's disturbing. I'm going to forward this to their marketing guy and see what he says. Good thing I held off on the purchase.

[KeyserSöze]

Originally Posted by KeyserSöze

I have a 2014 328d and got this email from Michael Drawz at AC-Schnitzer:

The 328d is US version of the European 320d with the same engine and hp. For the 320d we do offer an engine tuning that most probably will also work on the US 328d. BUT we know that these vehicles do have other injectors. Therefore we cannot release our kit for your vehicle without extensive testing, which is a problem, as we don´t have such vehicles here in Germany. We will work with AC Schnitzer USA on a solution. Below you will find their contact information:

AC Schnitzer USA
German Tuning Corporation
1711 McGaw Avenue
Irvine, CA 92614

Contact Person: Andreas Hartmann
ph: 949.863.0015
fax: 949.863.1944
cell: 949.394.5860
e-mail: andreas@acschnitzer-us.com
Internet: www.acschnitzer-us.com

Best regards
Michael Drawz
Export Sales

I called Andreas and gave him my VIN. I am waiting to hear back from him on this.

I just got off the phone with Andreas...it is essentially boiling down to this: they are pretty sure the same PowerKit will work, but aren't willing to just sell it to me outright. I need to drop my vehicle off with AC-Schnitzer USA and let them install and test for a day. They'll report findings back to the mother-ship in Germany. If it works, I pay and keep it. If it doesn't, no fee. In the event of any failure/issue, I would be covered by their warranty in the interim.

Some additional information I got from him: the installation entails a cut on the CanBus cabling so as to retrofit with connectors for their harness. In order to return to stock, that would need to be soldered back together.

[kevinmac]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Early N47 engines (which have the timing chain at the back of the engine!) had a propensity to throw or skip their chains, resulting in un-fun valve-piston interactions. They've changed/upgraded part numbers a couple times (AFAIKT) so I wouldn't worry.

Great info, thank you. I feel a little better now knowing this. Do you happen to have a link, very interesting reading for me? I haven't had the time to dig deeper but I've read issues up to '12 models, nothing on 2014 so I left it at that and 'assumed' 😁 bmw probably fixed it by now!