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      05-22-2020, 07:00 AM   #925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldotbe View Post
Okay I get ya. On my latest log looks like knock is 0 for whole thing, tiny spike but on 0.1. Thing I noticed this time is that cylinder 1 corrects a lot more than the rest and is slightly behind by 2-3 degrees throughout. Is this something that will improve as the dme adapts?

https://datazap.me/u/eldotbe/mhd?log=0&data=3-19

Couple weeks ago I knew nothing about this, am starting to understand it all now, crazy how much you can learn from some random people on a forum
What kern417 said about cylinder 1 timing

The log data looks really good Big step up in power, must feel nice.

It looks like 430 WHP and 450 lbft, very high for 99RON

The power and torque curves for that run look identical to when my car had MHD 95_102 Stage 2 OTS, stock downpipe and E30 fuel

Your HPFP rail pressure curve looks like one for E30 fuel too.
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      05-22-2020, 08:14 AM   #926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
I don't think spark plug gap is the problem, just lack of octane.

With the stock tune and 98RON fuel the required load/boost is low and your timing is pretty good, e.g. first log all cylinders have 8 degrees of timing at 5300 RPM and 13 PSI boost.

With the Stage 1 91 octane map using Shell 95 RON (91 octane fuel) 5300 RPM you have inconsistent cylinder timing ranging from 0 to 5 degrees with 16.9 PSI. If you had better fuel with this map you would see timing like the stock map, all cylinders the same, about 8 degrees for example.

Stage 1 93 octane map with 102RON (95 octane) 5300 RPM timing is a bit better 4.7 to 7.3 across cylinders at 16.8 PSI.

As a test you could try running the 102RON fuel with the Stage 1 91 octane map and you should see more consistent timing for all cylinders throughout the rev range.

If you don't have enough octane, timing will be poor and so will torque/power. You'll see improvement the more logs you do with higher octane fuel.
Thanks again for the reply. I started to read this thread from the beginning (not finished yet) and learn about it on the internet.

I asked recently Pure Turbo's which fuel is the best from their experience in my country. Surprisingly they told me not the get Shell/BP/ESSO but Q8 or Total. So I filled up my car with OK 98 fuel (which should be Q8). To me OK sounds like and the logo looks like the cheapest fuel ever but... whatever.

I read about putting the car in DSC mode and reset adaptations.

I flashed the stage 1 91 OTS map, reset adaptions, drove 50km, then did a pull. It was near a town so I couldn't speed too much. In DSC mode.
Now my timings look good IMO. Cylinder 1 is a bit off but not more than 3 degrees, but that is normal as I've been reading on this thread.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ec6...729b509821b588

So I guess the fuel theory could be the case. Still I find that somewhat strange, 98 - 102 RON (93) fuel is all 0% ethanol here. So I don't quite get why OK fuel 98 is better then TanQyou 102.

Some more testing needs to be done to verify that DSC mode puts better timing on pulls... could you maybe explain why DSC mode causes better timing, as I couldn't find the answer to this yet in the thread?

Edit:
Now it looks bad again with the timing. did 2 logs again first one is in Sport and second in DSC off. Both don't look good
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ec8...0b430369354f7d
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ec8...0b430369354f85

Back to stock map it is I guess. Car does feel lot faster with stage 1. But has a bit more rough idle.

Last edited by 340iNL; 05-22-2020 at 01:28 PM..
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      05-22-2020, 05:04 PM   #927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
What kern417 said about cylinder 1 timing

The log data looks really good Big step up in power, must feel nice.

It looks like 430 WHP and 450 lbft, very high for 99RON

The power and torque curves for that run look identical to when my car had MHD 95_102 Stage 2 OTS, stock downpipe and E30 fuel

Your HPFP rail pressure curve looks like one for E30 fuel too.

Thatís great news, got some ethanol on the way so gonna try the e30 map soon
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      05-22-2020, 05:58 PM   #928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340iNL View Post


Thanks again for the reply. I started to read this thread from the beginning (not finished yet) and learn about it on the internet.

I asked recently Pure Turbo's which fuel is the best from their experience in my country. Surprisingly they told me not the get Shell/BP/ESSO but Q8 or Total. So I filled up my car with OK 98 fuel (which should be Q8). To me OK sounds like and the logo looks like the cheapest fuel ever but... whatever.

I read about putting the car in DSC mode and reset adaptations.

I flashed the stage 1 91 OTS map, reset adaptions, drove 50km, then did a pull. It was near a town so I couldn't speed too much. In DSC mode.
Now my timings look good IMO. Cylinder 1 is a bit off but not more than 3 degrees, but that is normal as I've been reading on this thread.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ec6...729b509821b588

So I guess the fuel theory could be the case. Still I find that somewhat strange, 98 - 102 RON (93) fuel is all 0% ethanol here. So I don't quite get why OK fuel 98 is better then TanQyou 102.

Some more testing needs to be done to verify that DSC mode puts better timing on pulls... could you maybe explain why DSC mode causes better timing, as I couldn't find the answer to this yet in the thread?

Edit:
Now it looks bad again with the timing. did 2 logs again first one is in Sport and second in DSC off. Both don't look good
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ec8...0b430369354f7d
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ec8...0b430369354f85

Back to stock map it is I guess. Car does feel lot faster with stage 1. But has a bit more rough idle.
I don't think your logs look too bad and if it was me I'd stick with the 91 octane map for a while. You're getting up to 11 degrees of timing in all cylinders except cylinder 1, which is pretty normal.

I have a theory about DSC off, when there is a very minor variation in wheel speed the DME reduces timing to reduce torque as part of stability control system.

In addition to reducing timing it may also partially close the throttle and reduce waste gate duty cycle to reduce boost. Most of this happens without you feeling it, until the wheel slip is too much, requiring more abrupt intervention by DME.

Deactivating DSC reduces this sensitivity, allowing more wheel slip, up to a point, and therefore less adjustment of torque and timing.
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      05-22-2020, 11:07 PM   #929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldotbe View Post
Okay I get ya. On my latest log looks like knock is 0 for whole thing, tiny spike but on 0.1. Thing I noticed this time is that cylinder 1 corrects a lot more than the rest and is slightly behind by 2-3 degrees throughout. Is this something that will improve as the dme adapts?

https://datazap.me/u/eldotbe/mhd?log=0&data=3-19

Couple weeks ago I knew nothing about this, am starting to understand it all now, crazy how much you can learn from some random people on a forum
Ive plotted that graph up against my 2 runs, one using stage 2 98ron map and the other using stage 2 102ron map. Ive also added in the bm3 stage 2 run from your original post.

Red Line - my 98 map
Blue line - your 98 map
Green line - my 102 map
Orange line - your bm3 map

Name:  graph.jpg
Views: 119
Size:  150.2 KB

Don't pay too much attention to the actual figures as i may have the weights of each car in slightly wrong but this shows the difference between each map.

note: ive used a correction factor of 1.12 to account for the 12% drivetrain loss when calculating crank horsepower.

My 102ron map (green line) has been ran on a dyno and made exactly 420whp ~(12% loss) 470bhp.

never had the 98ron map on a dyno but going off this data id guess right around 450bhp

Last edited by Colauk; 05-22-2020 at 11:24 PM..
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      05-23-2020, 03:26 PM   #930
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Im not gonna post every log don't worry but I just happened to look at this one I did today and looks all over the place to me, knock adapt goes to -1.4. And throttle position is up and down up and down. Don't know if I'm just being paranoid keep looking at and doing logs

https://datazap.me/u/eldotbe/stage2-...37-38-39-40-44
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      05-23-2020, 05:41 PM   #931
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldotbe View Post
Im not gonna post every log don't worry but I just happened to look at this one I did today and looks all over the place to me, knock adapt goes to -1.4. And throttle position is up and down up and down. Don't know if I'm just being paranoid keep looking at and doing logs

https://datazap.me/u/eldotbe/stage2-...37-38-39-40-44
Looks fine to me, the DME will adapt and fine tune when you run the same tune with the same fuel for a while, but it's fine as is anyway.

Your car just seems to be efficient at making the target torque required, with actual going over target, resulting in the DME closing the throttle partially, reducing waste gate duty cycle, torque limiters being activated etc to bring the torque back in line with target.

It feels smooth in power delivery though?
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      05-23-2020, 05:53 PM   #932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Looks fine to me, the DME will adapt and fine tune when you run the same tune with the same fuel for a while, but it's fine as is anyway.

Your car just seems to be efficient at making the target torque required, with actual going over target, resulting in the DME closing the throttle partially, reducing waste gate duty cycle, torque limiters being activated etc to bring the torque back in line with target.

It feels smooth in power delivery though?
Yeah is smooth though out. Although at around 3000 feels like thereís a little hesitation but nothing major. Will run the map and same fuel for a couple weeks and see what happens.
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      05-23-2020, 05:53 PM   #933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzBMR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldotbe View Post
Im not gonna post every log don't worry but I just happened to look at this one I did today and looks all over the place to me, knock adapt goes to -1.4. And throttle position is up and down up and down. Don't know if I'm just being paranoid keep looking at and doing logs

https://datazap.me/u/eldotbe/stage2-...37-38-39-40-44
Looks fine to me, the DME will adapt and fine tune when you run the same tune with the same fuel for a while, but it's fine as is anyway.

Your car just seems to be efficient at making the target torque required, with actual going over target, resulting in the DME closing the throttle partially, reducing waste gate duty cycle, torque limiters being activated etc to bring the torque back in line with target.

It feels smooth in power delivery though?
This is NOT the way it should work. Actual Load has to stabilize in a very short period of time reaching target values. Log above shows that's PID values are way too aggressive for given hardware or/and base WGDC is too high/too low.
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      05-24-2020, 01:11 AM   #934
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alyabiev View Post
This is NOT the way it should work. Actual Load has to stabilize in a very short period of time reaching target values. Log above shows that's PID values are way too aggressive for given hardware or/and base WGDC is too high/too low.
What does this mean? Not too sure on WGDC and how it works? Couldnít find anything on the internet that explains it well enough to me.
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      05-24-2020, 05:26 AM   #935
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https://datazap.me/u/bmw63/legacy-v1...solo=4&mark=81

hi, im hitting a limiter at around 4500RPM which is cutting load and causing throttle cuts, could anyone help me solve this? busy with my own tune

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      05-24-2020, 06:48 AM   #936
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW63 View Post
https://datazap.me/u/bmw63/legacy-v1...solo=4&mark=81

hi, im hitting a limiter at around 4500RPM which is cutting load and causing throttle cuts, could anyone help me solve this? busy with my own tune

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In other logs I see limiter 131072 activated when load actual exceeds load target.

In the 10:44 and 10:45 logs at around 4500 RPM your load target max drops to 197.5 and then continues to drop to 157 at 5900 RPM then suddenly jumps back up 220 immediately you take your foot off the pedal.

WGDC remains high throughout, indicating a higher load target exists but load target max is limiting it and throttle is closing to reduce boost

I can't see your load target logged, only load actual and load target max?

Is it just that your load target max needs to be adjusted?

It looks like load target max is capping the load actual.

In the 10:53 log load target max suddenly drops at 2879 RPM from 206 to 176. The limiter is activated at 3956 RPM, which will be when load actual exceeds load target, but to me it looks like this is a symptom of load target max being too low?

Your ignition timing could be better, increase octane via more meth or less load target?
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      05-24-2020, 07:05 AM   #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alyabiev View Post
This is NOT the way it should work. Actual Load has to stabilize in a very short period of time reaching target values. Log above shows that's PID values are way too aggressive for given hardware or/and base WGDC is too high/too low.
I agree it's not the the way it is designed or meant to work in the first instance, but it still can work this way.

It's an OTS tune and BM3, MHD etc have to develop OTS maps that cater for the average car with average bolt ons (down pipe etc), average fuel in average conditions.

In this case the car seems efficient and based on the values in the tables allow the car to exceed the torque targets more easily.

The DME is managing the task, the car drives smoothly with good torque and indications are that the combustion process is within acceptable limits.
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