[Kermit]

Agreed, those buyers are likely to be more adventurous. But there are far, far more fleet 318s and 320s that won't have been touched I suspect.

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by Hooded

I would like to see that Argued in court.

I stand by my original reply that VOSA declaring you can’t put your car back on the road due to a remap etc is far fetched.

Indeed. Would they argue it in court? The mods, remap etc industry is a nice little earner so would be silly to stifle it. But owners should be aware of messing with things when still in warranty...

[Sullym6]

Originally Posted by robbiep

So where DO they draw the line then ?

BMW have decided : This is the approved software that we install, we warrant works properly. Fuck with it, and you're on your own.
Unless you are a software expert, you're basically just following instructions - from someone who may, or may not, have a clue about the 'Law of Unintended Consequences'.

Let's say, for example, that there's a bit of BMW's code that looks for a state that is 240 characters later on, to decide whether to engage the emergency braking. You, by adding your code, move that point so it is now 245 characters later on.

I've seen, on here, people that have 'bricked' their cars by doing something wrong. By messing with the 'wrong' bit of code.

Also, as to your 'court case' situation, remember that the software (and future official versions of the software) are part of the 'type approval' for the car. All BMW have to do is get VOSA involved, and you're potentially left with a pile of parts that VOSA declare can never be put back on the road

Let's not get carried away changing a startup logo is vastly different from a remap. Here we have bmw voiding all the warranty on electrics such as lights because he made a minor change to something that bmw included in their coding and can be switched on or off
You take the risk when making changes but the stance from bmw is ridiculous

[Samuaw]

So wait a minute.
Even if you recode out the functions you coded in with binmercode, so returning the start up logo back to normal.
That’s still won’t go unnoticed when BMW are checking over the car’s software ?

[muniz_ri]

Originally Posted by Samuaw

So wait a minute.
Even if you recode out the functions you coded in with binmercode, so returning the start up logo back to normal.
That's still won't go unnoticed when BMW are checking over the car's software ?

We won't know that until someone takes their car in for warranty service after undoing the coding and posts about it.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by r1cey

I just don’t understand why a lot of people treat £30k - £50k cars like they are phones (or similar) and modify, whether that be “simple” coding, as most of this thread is about, or all those out there, increasing power with remaps or “add-ons”. The risk is just not worth it, and bearing in mind that any x40 is relatively high powered in the first place, madness!! Thankfully, my stock car got fixed under warranty (https://www.babybmw.net/forum/viewto...?f=74&t=129378) but how many people stupidly think “it’ll not happen to me”, or just don’t realise the full implications of what they are doing?? (the latter more likely). Some don’t realise the full cost of an engine swap, if it does go “bang”, and not covered!!

Nah, most expensive quote I've had for a refurb engine / ECU fitted is 6K. What one really needs to be concerned about is living on the financial edge and modifying. BMW could easily inform BMW FS if they saw fit and a nice 25 - 50K bill would ruin most far more than an engine replacement.

If you're dealing with finance don't bother.. Personally I use finance for discounts / lemon assurance. Once it proves strong under natural duress then I'll consider modifying after I buy the car outright.

In that situation I wouldn't be buying new anyway, usually a year old when the car's lost nearly 18K in depreciation which can buy you a new engine and ZF sport transmission if need be. I like to tinker and a 340i is the ideal platform to track, evolve and have fun with because buying a 300+HP petrol car at their cost rate is daft to begin with on our roads. If you want the feeling of quick whilst going slow buy an electric or diesel..

[Chris335dF31]

Still don't understand how the items you coded affected the camera? Seems to be a nice way of charging for valid warranty claims. Anyone comes in with a problem blame it on coding and get a nice contribution towards fixing it by charging for a full reset. :

[speedski]

Originally Posted by Sullym6

Let's not get carried away changing a startup logo is vastly different from a remap. Here we have bmw voiding all the warranty on electrics such as lights because he made a minor change to something that bmw included in their coding and can be switched on or off
You take the risk when making changes but the stance from bmw is ridiculous

Legally any warranty is in addition to your rights, so BMW can choose the terms of the warranty in any way they see fit. I think the bit where BMW will be on sticky ground is if you bought before they introduced this was the terms we all bought from.

Modifications made which change the wear and tear on the warrantied parts should be stopped (if you are in the finance department at BMW) but I do agree that cosmetic stuff such as logos is penny pinching.

I guess the problem BMW have is where do you draw that line. If its easier to say a) 'oi someones messed with our code' that saying b) 'oi someones messed with our code now we need to figure out if that contributed to the problem'. easier to do a than b.

Kind of the same with the mobile phone industry, if you send a phone for repair, say for a battery and the screen is smashed - they wont repair the battery without repairing (and charging) for the phone...

I wonder if this was caused by that norse who tricked out his M, put it on Youtube and BMW cancelled his finance (and warranty)

[Rhino at Work]

Originally Posted by Samuaw

So wait a minute.
Even if you recode out the functions you coded in with binmercode, so returning the start up logo back to normal.
That’s still won’t go unnoticed when BMW are checking over the car’s software ?

It's been that long I can't even remember what the original start up logo was! Was it what Bimmercode calls Connected Drive 1?

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by Chris335dF31

Still don't understand how the items you coded affected the camera? Seems to be a nice way of charging for valid warranty claims. Anyone comes in with a problem blame it on coding and get a nice contribution towards fixing it by charging for a full reset. :

Neither do I but as it was a suspected electrical fault with full BMW warranty they obviously deep scanned the car which was then they found the code list. I can only assume Bimmercode does not cleanly code or they have a way of checking against the original factory code of the vehicle. I assume if you revert back to as it was before coding a foot print will be left as it won't be put back cleanly/correctly.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by RENT-A-GOAT

Neither do I but as it was a suspected electrical fault with full BMW warranty they obviously deep scanned the car which was then they found the code list.

Seems like they’re just looking for excuses not to honour the warranty.
It’s Another good reason to buy a car just over 3 years old and out of warranty instead.

• Much Cheaper servicing at an Indy specialist instead of main dealer.
• You Don’t have to deal with these cunts over warranty issues.
• You don’t lose 20k in depreciation over the first 3 years of ownership.

[bishbosh]

To turn this upside down, my car screwed itself up, one day it was fine and a few days later I had all manner of error messages displayed. Error messages relating to equipment I didn't even have.

Turned out the dash (kombi) had suddenly lost all its coding data. It was only due to my knowledge of ESys that I managed to inject the correct CAFD information and recode (not flash btw) the kombi and all was well again. BMW would have either replaced perfectly working (but incorrectly configured) components or charged minimum a couple of hours labour for coding.

[RENT-A-GOAT]

Originally Posted by Hooded

Seems like they're just looking for excuses not to honour the warranty.
It's Another good reason to buy a car just over 3 years old and out of warranty instead.

• Much Cheaper servicing at an Indy specialist instead of main dealer.
• You Don't have to deal with these cunts over warranty issues.
• You don't lose 20k in depreciation over the first 3 years of ownership.

Good for you, nice assumptions you made there.

[Hooded]

Originally Posted by RENT-A-GOAT

Good for you, nice assumptions you made there.

Well they don’t call them stealers for nothing

[speedski]

Theres far more to this that just BMW being a PITA.

This gives some perspective on why they're tightening up the code base and its access...

https://www.motor1.com/news/440392/f...cybersecurity/

[ian332isport]

Originally Posted by speedski

Theres far more to this that just BMW being a PITA.

This gives some perspective on why they're tightening up the code base and its access...

https://www.motor1.com/news/440392/f...cybersecurity/

Flashing new code on an ECU is completely different to a bit of FDL coding though.

BMW wrote the code and included various options that can be selected (given the correct software). FDL coding is just selecting from these different options. It's no different to changing a setting via iDrive, it's just BMW chose not to provide all the available options via iDrive.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by RENT-A-GOAT

Good for you, nice assumptions you made there.

As far as assumptions go it's a pretty good one, BMW have just lost a metric ton of money this year. It makes perfect sense to tighten their belts in terms of warranty claims which costs them money.

[Watsey]

Here's my take on things, from BMW's perspective (i.e. a deliberately constructed business model) :

Step 1 - Make a strong policy decision to blacklist cars which have been coded. Weed-out all the 'chancers' who code their car knowingly, but with a convenient "I didn't know; it's not my fault" frame of mind. After all, why should BMW provide free rectification when it didn't cause the problem(s) ? Condition customers for Step 2.

Step 2 - Adopt a 'pay for use' charging model in conjunction with their new hardware (and even their existing model line-up) because once the customer has bought-in to the hardware platform (the expensive bit) for at least a fixed term (i.e. a 3 year lease/PCP) the majority of people won't change their car due to the potential get-out charges. This equates to "we own you and your wallet".

Step 3 - Advertise the 'new' functionality options and build-up the demand. Make the 'customer' pay, pay, pay.

I see the argument for/against 'simple' coding very much in two minds :

- Petty, because minor software changes have arguably zero effect on the majority of hardware components.

- Hard to argue against because, in principle terms, the user is modifying the product which was purchased (or is being 'borrowed' i.e. lease/PCP).

My car is now approaching 8 years old and has had quite a bit of coding - remap, XHP, start-stop, puddle lights on in reverse, etc. BMW chose not to allow the Extended Warranty to be renewed at 95K miles - maybe my car has already been 'noted' and quietly blacklisted without my knowledge. That's BMW's choice. It's largely immaterial because, for example, if the engine goes bang I wouldn't expect BMW to drop a new engine into it FOC. I also wouldn't expect it to replace my Ohlins coilovers, my Stoptech brakes or Quaife diff.

It no longer matters. My car will never see another BMW dealership as I'll now take it to a good indy and continue to do the interim oil/filters changes myself. It runs well, the performance is still excellent, needs a few error codes investigating, and is now at an age where paying for BMW dealer premium service/pricing no longer makes sense. Not that I've ever been impressed with main dealer servicing anyway - it's mostly been a complete PITA. My F31, until it reached around 4 years old (I bought it AUC at 2 years old) has been, by far, the most unreliable car I've ever had. I don't lust after another one.

Policy decisions, insofar as they're not at the detriment of the customer's statutory rights, are entirely BMW's prerogative. It will write the changes into its terms and conditions of sale for new cars, and customers who are suitably informed would be wise to check/insist that AUC terms of sale specifically state that the car is being sold on the specific basis that the vehicle systems/coding as 'as new' and that the car has a full warranty at the point of sale.

However, not all customers have open/bottomless wallets and the market is still competitive. If people don't like the new charging model they'll buy from a different manufacturer.

Personally I can't see me 'buying' a new BMW - the current line-up is too samey and no longer excites me. I'd be far more likely to spend my next £20K on something smaller, lighter, and more nimble and then spend £10K modifying it to get it how I'd like it.

[speedski]

Kinda screws the used market though - as BMW will now, no doubt, slash the part ex/trade in because 'they have to flash it to stock'.

Or worse still, you buy from a used car salesman, it has a problem and has to go to a main dealer. Dealer wont touch it because the code was changed by previous owner.

BMW's approach here could be very troublesome for those buying and selling used...

[M140_BCS]

If buying used outside the dealer network while still in warranty period or wanting to extend you'd need to run the car through a main dealer first or download ISTA+ and check yourself with Enet cable and windows laptop.

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by M140_BCS

If buying used outside the dealer network while still in warranty period or wanting to extend you'd need to run the car through a main dealer first or download ISTA+ and check yourself with Enet cable and windows laptop.

Even for those of us in the know, I don’t see this happening let alone the other 99% of used buyers.

[Sullym6]

Originally Posted by M140_BCS

If buying used outside the dealer network while still in warranty period or wanting to extend you'd need to run the car through a main dealer first or download ISTA+ and check yourself with Enet cable and windows laptop.

You still can't connect to Germany to compare so ista at home won't flag anything
I get flagging remaps and xhp which has taken bmw along time to implement quick detection. The vag group have been detecting remaps for ages but they don't void warranty for coding changed with vagcom so don't get bmw stance on this. If you brick your car when coding it's your fault but say I changed my start up logo and then 6months later the idrive failed I can be sure 100% the coding change is not the cause.
My car is older than 3 years so not an issue for me but the previous owner had made changes as it was not showing disclaimers and when it went in for the egr recall the dealer didn't mention anything