[deletedelete]

I dont care what performance numbers the c6 has, I really dont like the interior. With that said, those lsx motors can get insanely fast with some modding. And correct me if im wrong, but I bet that its pretty cheap to work on a gm car. A c6 even unmodded will best almost everybodies car on this forum. Even so, I wouldnt trade my 335 for one because I dont like them. I can accept how good of a car the c6 is without having to personally like it. No fanboy here thank you.

Its good in stock form, great with mods, probably cheap to work on and has a unique look that everybody can recognize unlike a stock e9x.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Some GM firsts:

Automatic transmissions
Anti-lock brakes
Fuel injection
Heads-up display in cars
Tire pressure monitors
Magnetically adjustable shocks
First production electric vehicle in NA (I say in NA because the other stuff being sold in other parts of the world didn't have to meet US crash standards)
First series hybrid in NA (also the first plug in hybrid to be sold here)
First hybrid SUV
First automatic crash notification system (On-Star, which BMW copied).

Need I go on? You listed things from half a dozen different companies in order to compile an impressive list. All the above is just from GM.

I think you will find Mercedes Benz was responsible for many inventions. ABS, Airbags, crumple zones, etc. And I believe Alpha Romeo was the first to test EFI while mechanical FI was used for years prior in airplane engines made by BMW and MB.

TPMS was first used by Porsche.

[BForbes]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I dont care what performance numbers the c6 has, I really dont like the interior. With that said, those lsx motors can get insanely fast with some modding. And correct me if im wrong, but I bet that its pretty cheap to work on a gm car. A c6 even unmodded will best almost everybodies car on this forum. Even so, I wouldnt trade my 335 for one because I dont like them. I can accept how good of a car the c6 is without having to personally like it. No fanboy here thank you.

Its good in stock form, great with mods, probably cheap to work on and has a unique look that everybody can recognize unlike a stock e9x.

Good points. And yes, they are very cost efficient to mod. You and I feel the same way. I have no desire to own one but they impress the pants off me.

Guys, lets chill out a bit. Agree to disagree. Take comfort in knowing how ridiculous the other person may be.

I have zero issues with locking my own thread.

[Chenry135]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Compared to what? A standard C6 will outhandle an M3.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I think you will find Mercedes Benz was responsible for many inventions. ABS, Airbags, crumple zones, etc. And I believe Alpha Romeo was the first to test EFI while mechanical FI was used for years prior in airplane engines made by BMW and MB.

TPMS was first used by Porsche.

Actually Chrysler and GM were the first with production cars with ABS in 1971, Ford had it on a show car in 1960 and MB didn't use it until 1974.

GM introduced the airbag on a production car in 1974 (and also had knee restraints), while MB waited until 1980.

Hell, MB had cassette players in their cars until a few years ago, do you really think they were first to market on much?

You're correct that Alfa was the first with EFI, yet it's arguable whether the Germans beat the Americans and Brits with EFI in aero cylinder engines during the war.

You're also right that the 959 was the first car with TPMS, nice call.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

I think you will find Mercedes Benz was responsible for many inventions. ABS, Airbags, crumple zones, etc. And I believe Alpha Romeo was the first to test EFI while mechanical FI was used for years prior in airplane engines made by BMW and MB.

TPMS was first used by Porsche.

No one made the claim that Mercedes has been sitting on their ass for the last 20 years though....now did they? I took issue with the statement that GM has. The two things are not the same.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

No one made the claim that Mercedes has been sitting on their ass for the last 20 years though....now did they? I took issue with the statement that GM has. The two things are not the same.

I will. What have they done in the last 20 years? A botched partnership with McLaren, pushing more engineering work to AMG, who did make a cool automatic with out a torque converter, and a few minor things around FLIR and parking sensors. It just seems that if they're such great innovators, something other than cars that look like biscuits and more SUV models than Toyota would be nice. Of course the same can be said for BMW, so no one's really safe.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

No one made the claim that Mercedes has been sitting on their ass for the last 20 years though....now did they? I took issue with the statement that GM has. The two things are not the same.

Didn't say anyone was sitting on their ass. Just pointing out that some of your GM firsts were incorrect.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

Didn't say anyone was sitting on their ass. Just pointing out that some of your GM firsts were incorrect.

The only one I see that was incorrect was the TPMS. Your other statements were corrected above.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by Chenry135

I know, it's pretty funny isn't it. Most won't believe it, even when all the tests on the car prove it.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

I'll take my words back when an american car maker can make something even close to that engine.

So what's the criteria? What makes that engine so great? Are you back to the stupid Hp/L measurement again? No one cars but ricers who have nothing better to talk about. Lets talk about Hp/Lb, or center of gravity, or fuel economy, or overall size, or ANYTHING that actually matters.

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

Keep defending your corvette dude. Just be careful your roof doesn't fly off

I'll be even happier if my HPFP doesn't fail 4 times during my ownership.

(One cheap shot deserves another, and you can bet your ass that GM's reliability ratings right now are a HELL of a lot better than BMWs.)

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

hahaaa you sir are a moron.

@ jeremey. I said american car makers haven't made progress so to prove that i posted japanese achievements also. If you're putting a heads up display in the same category as a piece of incredible engineering that is the mclaren f1 engine, then it is really pointless for me to continue this.

I'll take my words back when an american car maker can make something even close to that engine.

Oh and the seven series is on sale to a select group of people its not a concept.

Keep defending your corvette dude. Just be careful your roof doesn't fly off

when the hell did we start discussing a limited production engine for a 1 Million + hyper car?

and as an FYI, you can easily tune a Z06 motor to make more power than that v12, but I would rather have the v12, until I have to repair it

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Where have you been, Antarctica?

Me? No, not Antarctica but close in terms of climate.... Chicago.

I haven't been on in a while and decided to see what was cooking so I can break the bank come springtime. I do my best to try to steer clear of this subforum, but it's like a train wreck... It's horrible and you know it's just an awful thing, but you can't look away.... Many informed people here, and just as many who think they're informed who actually know squat.

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Some GM firsts:

Automatic transmissions
Anti-lock brakes
Fuel injection
Heads-up display in cars
Tire pressure monitors
Magnetically adjustable shocks
First production electric vehicle in NA (I say in NA because the other stuff being sold in other parts of the world didn't have to meet US crash standards)
First series hybrid in NA (also the first plug in hybrid to be sold here)
First hybrid SUV
First automatic crash notification system (On-Star, which BMW copied).

Yeah I'm no GM nut-swinger by any stretch of the imagination, but you have to give credit where credit is due. Their innovation and technological advancements are some of the most important and, more importantly, most PRACTICAL TO IMPLEMENT in every variation of automobile.

Their issues were never because of their lack of innovation or technology, it was crappy planning and a corporation who made decisions at the speed of a snail, and even then they were poor decisions as far as packaging, marketing and planning, and I could go on forever about how crappy of a corporation it was in certain aspects, but at this point, there's not even anything left of that dead horse, it's been beaten so badly....

Originally Posted by .:bHd:.

I said american car makers haven't made progress so to prove that i posted japanese achievements also. If you're putting a heads up display in the same category as a piece of incredible engineering that is the mclaren f1 engine, then it is really pointless for me to continue this.

I'll take my words back when an american car maker can make something even close to that engine.

What is considered "close to that engine"...? Given a basically unlimited budget, I would be confident that GM could have put a lump in there that would have been at least close, if not equal to, the BMW V12 in terms of power and power/weight. It would probably just come in the form of more torque, less peak power, and 4 less cylinders. But that's all speculation and hypothetical anyway (probably could even be downgraded to "personal opinion" status), so don't take it to heart.

What, besides being picked to populate the F1's engine bay, did the F1's engine provide as far as engineering break-through and innovation???? I just fail to see it. I mean, its materials were nice for the most part, but it wasn't even the best tech of its day, considering the lack of variable valve geometry and absent titanium use. Don't get me wrong in any way, the F1 is my favorite supercar still to this day, and that engine is ridiculous, but I fail to see what is so special and innovative about it, or its effect on the industry itself. It's like the designers were given free reign for once, one of them went and got a couple kilos of blow, they locked themselves in their secret-squirrel room for a month with no sleep, and - BAM - they came out with a variation of a current design that was absolutely ridiculous and mind-boggling. Ridiculous? Yes. Powerful? Umm yeah, that's an understatement. Intimidating? Of course. Innovative tech? I dunno....

Of course, the CF bodywork and underbody aero/fans were new and innovative at the time, but that has nothing to do with the engine. Other materials used to build the car contributed a lot to its curb weight. The central seating position allowed the designers to not have to worry about wheel well intrusion. There were a lot more things going for the McLaren than just the special BMW V12. The engine just happened to find its way into a vehicle that became absolutely legendary due to many reasons.

Please someone set me straight if I'm wrong here. I do tend to be every once in a while.

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I dont care what performance numbers the c6 has, I really dont like the interior. With that said, those lsx motors can get insanely fast with some modding. And correct me if im wrong, but I bet that its pretty cheap to work on a gm car. A c6 even unmodded will best almost everybodies car on this forum. Even so, I wouldnt trade my 335 for one because I dont like them. I can accept how good of a car the c6 is without having to personally like it. No fanboy here thank you.

Its good in stock form, great with mods, probably cheap to work on and has a unique look that everybody can recognize unlike a stock e9x.

Yeah I don't think anyone is going to argue with you about the interior. People will argue whether or not it matters in a car like that, but again you'd be getting into opinions, which never end well on the net.

Anyway, back to addressing the general theme of this thread, GM has been honing and perfecting variations of their small block OHV V8 for so long that it's better than most of the OHC designs out there. It's cheap, reliable, powerful, and massively efficient. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other carmakers who can say that about their flagship motors.... But because it's OHC, it's automatically disqualified from consideration in peoples' minds? That's just ludicrous. The Vette is an inspiration in itself, showing that it can take what some consider "old school" and beat up on "new school" alllllllll day, and be cheaper, more reliable, and more efficient. Through the course of letting the engine evolve, they have made a lump of metal that honestly can't be touched all things considered. And of course, you've got the leaf spring setup which is a huge no-no to some who are quick to judge based on something they probably don't know jack about anyway.... That's fine, the Corvette isn't for everyone, and doesn't try to be.... But what it does, and does well, is give you a car that just can't be beat for the money. Can't even be touched in fact.... Doesn't even sweat at any competition.... In fact, is there even any valid competition considering performance in that price bracket? Why am I even wasting my time defending a car on an internet forum which speaks for itself and needs no defense from any educated motorist with anything more than a pea for a brain???

Unfortunately, some people on this forum would wilt and die if they ever found out that their car didn't make them as special as they thought they were. That being said, maybe this realization will thin out our fanboy population here.

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

The only one I see that was incorrect was the TPMS. Your other statements were corrected above.

And fuel injection.

[graider]

isn't the c6 z06 engine almost identical to the c6.r which won gt1 and leman so man times? love that car and you can have it for a bargain to. 35k for a c6 z06? wow.

does anyone have a c6 z06 past 100k miles? I want to know how reliable it is.

seriously consider it as my next car and sell the m3.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by graider

isn't the c6 z06 engine almost identical to the c6.r which won gt1 and leman so man times? love that car and you can have it for a bargain to. 35k for a c6 z06? wow.

does anyone have a c6 z06 past 100k miles? I want to know how reliable it is.

seriously consider it as my next car and sell the m3.

yes the LS7 is a hell of an engine. Very race bred. Reliable too as are all the LSx engines these days.

Id LOVE a LS7 in my e36. Cam and head and it would be game over.

[josephr25]

Check out this article by grandprix.com

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00222.html

John Barnard, a very famous F1 car designer, towards the end of the interview, gives his thoughts on efficiency. And this article is 14 years old.

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Sure it matters how its made. Now why don't you explain to us exactly what's wrong with the way the LS3 is made.

There's no real point to technology for technologie's sake. For its power output the LS3 is lightweight, robust, efficient, well balanced, easy to live with, and extremely cost effective. You simply can't buy another factory built engine for less money with equal performance.

I don't care if it's made with voodoo magic or in sweatshops in China. That's how good the results are.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

And fuel injection.

What Alfa was being sold with fuel injection prior to 1956?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...+history&hl=en

[MrRoboto]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

What Alfa was being sold with fuel injection prior to 1956?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...+history&hl=en

C6 2500

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by MrRoboto

C6 2500

Care to back that up with a source? Everything I see on them says they were carburated:

The 6C 2500 employed a single dual choke carburetor and 7.5:1 compression to produce 95 brake horsepower, driving through a single plate clutch and four-speed gearbox to the torsion bar independent rear suspension.

http://www.carpictures.com/vehicle/09L2A244208976.html

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

Care to back that up with a source? Everything I see on them says they were carburated:



http://www.carpictures.com/vehicle/09L2A244208976.html

In looking deeper, it looks to be pretty sketchy, as only one was made, hardly qualifies as "production".

A special car was made for the event using chassis 915.009 and an experimental eletro-magnetic fuel injection. Designed by Ottavio Fuscaldo, this system allowed the engine to peak at 5500 rpm and run on alternative fuels such as vegetable oil. The curious injection survived the entirety of the race to place 24th overall.

http://www.supercars.net/cars/1571.html