[C120CKA]

Surly when all cars become electric a remote cut off of some sort will be very easy for manufacturers to incorporate in the vehicle.
Then again who wants to steel an electric car.

Marc.

[TouringPleb]

There's a number of issues raised here and some good points!

I'm a response officer so have limited experience of pursuits. I think traffic officers are generally happy with their 330d and X5. Certainly much happier than when they had V70 D5 which were incredibly unreliable. I've been on attachment with traffic and they are fantastic drivers taught to a very high level. I think there's not much which will get away from a well driven 330d. However.. criminals will take risks which the police just can't. The criminal will do anything and I mean anything to get away. If anything happens, an officer has to be accountable and often stand up in court. Also we don't have legal protections. http://www.polfed.org/campaigning/trained_drivers.aspx

I think the biggest problem we have is numbers. In my county we used to have a traffic car north of the county, one south, one on the motorway and a spare. We now have a tri-force traffic so we share them with our two neighbours. That means often when we call them they aren't available as they are in another county. Plus their base is in one of the other counties so they leave ours about an hour before the end of shift to head back and had the car over to the next shift. One day it was so bad I was first on scene at a fatal and we couldn't get a traffic officer out for 90 minutes. Local knowledge is being lost. Recently there was a pursuit with a decamp. The officers were from another county and had no idea where they were for back up and to help look for the guys who made off.

Also the lower number of response officers means when traffic are available, often they are sent to outstanding immediate jobs. For example I cover the central, predominantly rural part of our county. We used to cover it from two stations, one in the east and one in the west of the county. The east station had 4 PCs and a Sgt, the west station had 3 PCs. If anyone was ill/training or on annual leave they would be covered. Now we cover that area from the east station with 4 PCs. If anyone is off we just run with less. There's been times when I've been the only officer covering over 250 square miles. Hell, there's been times when we come in at 07:00 and after scene guards, hospital watches, cell watches are covered, I've been the only available officer in the north of the county!!! I used to have time to be proactive, pulling cars over, going out to hunt offenders down and get them in. Now, I just go job to job to job for 12 hrs, reacting but not proactive. If I do nick someone I now have to deal with them in custody as our prisoner handling teams have gone, taking me off the streets for 6-8 hrs.

We used to have our own helicopter which meant with a pursuit we could have them overhead in 3-4 minutes. Then we had to share one with our neighbour, now we are lucky to see one at all. They are always elsewhere, refuelling or weathered in.

Then there's the lenient sentencing from the courts where you put a huge amount of work into getting a case to court only for them to be given ridiculous sentences which amount to pretty much getting a slap on the wrist and told to be a good boy.

Then there's all the ridiculous things, like we have response officers who can't drive on blues, most aren't allowed to pursue, a control room that is incredibly risk averse and will call the pursuit off at the merest hint of risk. Our response pandas are woefully inadequate, we have 1.3 diesel Astras with 140,000 miles on. The towns get the newer cars despite we often do 200-250 miles a shift and they might only do 20. We don't have enough roadside breath kits. It goes on and on..

So back to the OP question, are police cars fast enough. Yes, I think they are but there are many other reasons why criminals get away.

[JLR1969]

It's never been such a good a time to be a criminal

[mikeoz]

TP sums up the issues facing the country as a whole.
These Police pursuit TV series give the impression that they are in hot pursuit every 5 mins..the reality is that as he says they are called off for safety.
And the Officers are hung out if any thing goes wrong.

As for soft sentences Judges will follow the sentencing guidelines and to be fair they are set by Parliament in the laws that are made and the Home Office etc.
The Govt does not want to pay for Prisons and people in jail so want them in and out as quick as possible.

[mikeoz]

http://dailym.ai/2hMaMfX
This sums up my earlier comments about the situation facing the country.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

http://dailym.ai/2hMaMfX
This sums up my earlier comments about the situation facing the country.

[t5pilot]

@TouringPleb sums up the present situation very well. My Force, West Yorkshire, I believe, is the 3rd largest in the country. Most of my Roads Policing has been on Motorway & Leeds area. Leeds alone has call & demand volume comparative to some entire Forces.
Ten years ago, we had about 12 dedicated Motorway cars each shift and about 15 Traffic cars in the Leeds area.
With the cuts, which have had a massive impact on a Force of our size, we now have... 4 to 6 Traffic cars a shift... for the whole Eastern section (there?s no north & south, just east & west).
So, that?s for half the Motorway network, the whole of the Leeds district & the whole of Wakefield District. And that?s on a good day! We did have our own helicopter as well. Now it?s shared between us, South Yorkshire, North Yorkshire & Humberside.
The lack of protection for Police drivers is also very relevant these days.
Our cars are fast enough, especially with the advanced training we do. There just isn?t nearly enough cars or Officers unfortunately, which is a sad truth.
Like someone else has said, never been a better time to be a criminal!
Rant over.

[TouringPleb]

We need to be careful with all the coppers on here. If the Wicked Witch thinks we are all swanning around in BMWs she'll try and cut our wages further!

[mikeoz]

They obviously have loads of money if they can waste 250k on a witch hunt... witches are popular at the moment.

[Danny Fireblade]

We have 3 cars for our whole county after a certain time of night, until day shift starts.

It only takes 1 fatal accident, or serious RTI, and that leaves no traffic cars at all, which means no officers for another incident.

That may not mean too much to anyone in the greater scheme of things, however if it’s your car that’s stolen, or a member of your family that is knocked over by a car, and there are no officers to carry out the correct and comprehensive investigation, then it’s the public that suffers.

This is the real and current climate that everyone has to live with nowadays, and it isn’t going to change either.

And I am not just talking about the dedicated traffic officers. Most people will go through their lives without seeing or needing an officer, however when they call 999 and need one quick, and they do not come for a longer than acceptable period of time, it paints the police in a very poor light, and also the person that needed the police is put in unnecessary danger and the risk of harm is increased.

However the actual officers who do attend, who put themselves at risk every single day they work, not only physical risk from the people they deal with who may not like the police, but from the risk that the job will not protect them when they do their job as best they can, and the job that will pick apart every split second decision you make and possibly sack you for your efforts, then have to try and be the public face for the force that really couldn’t care about them or their welfare, they just care about statistics, which are manipulated when it suits, and their standings in relation to other forces.

Most of the people on here are law abiding, and their biggest worry is being caught massaging the speed limit, usually when it is safe to do so, however the next time they meet a copper, spare a thought for what they have been through that day, or that week, and remember, they are human too.

All except that twat Danny though😉

[mikeoz]

Out of interest and slightly off the original post with all these cuts to front line Officers has there been by reduction in Senior management?
Certainly in Prisons we have lost thousands of Officers and seem to have gained more managers?

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

Out of interest and slightly off the original post with all these cuts to front line Officers has there been by reduction in Senior management?
Certainly in Prisons we have lost thousands of Officers and seem to have gained more managers?

I don't think we've gained more senior officers, but I know we haven't lost any. Whenever I'm at hq (not that often, I try to stay away!) I see loads of officers of chief inspector and above. God knows what they all do but they aren't front line and would probably panic if told to attend a domestic!

[mikeoz]

Lol
Strange how these cuts never seem to effect higher levels.
That college of Policing is rammed with ACCs etc..
We definitely have more managers and the service has never been so bad.

[savgeax]

Due to cuts, our force has out sourced a training consultancy who are made up of ex chiefs. You will not believe the amount of money that is being spent on them.

Back on track, we are driving new astra estates. They are so small that our shields have to be put on the back seats.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by savgeax

Due to cuts, our force has out sourced a training consultancy who are made up of ex chiefs. You will not believe the amount of money that is being spent on them.

Back on track, we are driving new astra estates. They are so small that our shields have to be put on the back seats.

Try getting all your kit in a Astra hatchback!

[savgeax]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Try getting all your kit in a Astra hatchback!

Not sure how you cope...
4 cones
2 blue lights
3 road signs
Stinger
Brush
Spade
Life vest
First aid kit
Shield
Forensic kit

[Postcab]

These cuts are really worrying. When will Mother Theresa et al wake up and spend some money on the Police and Nurses. If that means higher taxes then so be it.

Didn't think I'd be voting for more Police cars, but the cuts have gone too far.

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by savgeax

Not sure how you cope...
4 cones
2 blue lights
3 road signs
Stinger
Brush
Spade
Life vest
First aid kit
Shield
Forensic kit

Then don't forget kit bag (x2 on nights when double crewed. Sometimes), hi-viz jacket, fleece, etc

[mikeoz]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

Try getting all your kit in a Astra hatchback!

What happened to the Cambs Hyundai ?

[TouringPleb]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

What happened to the Cambs Hyundai ?

I'm not Cambs!

[Danny Fireblade]

Originally Posted by savgeax

Not sure how you cope...
4 cones - We have 6
2 blue lights - Nil
3 road signs - Same
Stinger - You have got to be frigging kidding me if you think we get these.
Brush - Yup
Spade - Nope
Life vest - Nope
First aid kit - Yup
Shield - See Stinger
Forensic kit

- Yup

We have focus and astra estates, plus a Yeti, Kuga and a Mondeo.

[savgeax]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

What happened to the Cambs Hyundai ?

Rule of thumb is 5 years or 140,000 before they go. However we are still running on 11 plate Focus as the mileage is too low.