[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by fate_f30

Thanks for jumping in. You did the larger MHI turbo but not the fuel pump upgrade. Correct?

No, I'm still on the stock turbo and fuel pump unfortunately, just a basic Stage 2 setup (every mod in my signature). Waiting a bit for the turbo upgrade... I just know that from talking with people that have done it on here.

[fate_f30]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

No, I'm still on the stock turbo and fuel pump unfortunately, just a basic Stage 2 setup (every mod in my signature). Waiting a bit for the turbo upgrade... I just know that from talking with people that have done it on here.

Ok, gotcha. I would assume a larger turbo would allow you to spool quicker, sustain a longer spool, and create more power with the correct tune? Now I know the 300HP range is the "danger zone" for the n20/n26 but I heard roomers of a car in Brazil that's successfully pushing 380hp with stock internals.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by fate_f30

Ok, gotcha. I would assume a larger turbo would allow you to spool quicker, sustain a longer spool, and create more power with the correct tune? Now I know the 300HP range is the "danger zone" for the n20/n26 but I heard roomers of a car in Brazil that's successfully pushing 380hp with stock internals.

It would actually mean a slower spool in theory, because the turbine is larger it takes longer to spool, but the benefit is that it keeps pulling hard up top and helps to make more power and shift the power curve towards the upper rpm.

300whp is safe on stock internals, I'd even be comfortable up to 320whp but not much more than that. D041987 can tell you all about the limits of the internals though, better than I'll be able to.

[fate_f30]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

It would actually mean a slower spool in theory, because the turbine is larger it takes longer to spool, but the benefit is that it keeps pulling hard up top and helps to make more power and shift the power curve towards the upper rpm.

300whp is safe on stock internals, I'd even be comfortable up to 320whp but not much more than that. D041987 can tell you all about the limits of the internals though, better than I'll be able to.

Ahhh yes. I got that switched around. Sorry, I was confused.

[J.D.]

I would be more interested in a Dinan because of the preservation of the warranty. Just stage 1 for now. Does anyone know if installing that would void my CPO warranty?

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by J.D.

I would be more interested in a Dinan because of the preservation of the warranty. Just stage 1 for now. Does anyone know if installing that would void my CPO warranty?

The only way an aftermarket part can affect your warranty is if the dealer can prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure of whatever you're making a warranty claim on.

[BettyFkinCrocker]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

The only way an aftermarket part can affect your warranty is if the dealer can prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure of whatever you're making a warranty claim on.

While this is theoretically correct, it is nearly never applied in actuality. The victor of the battle goes to who can afford the best/most attorneys. If something like this were to actually go to court, the manufacturer is far more likely to win. I wouldn't go risking thousands of dollars (likely much more) betting that Magnuson-Moss is going to shield you from BMW.

To be clear, if you slap on a big turbo, and a suspension part fails...then this would apply 100%. However, if you throw a rod? Better believe BMW isn't going to take a $20k hit for fear of Magnuson-Moss rebuttals.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker

While this is theoretically correct, it is nearly never applied in actuality. The victor of the battle goes to who can afford the best/most attorneys. If something like this were to actually go to court, the manufacturer is far more likely to win. I wouldn't go risking thousands of dollars (likely much more) betting that Magnuson-Moss is going to shield you from BMW.

To be clear, if you slap on a big turbo, and a suspension part fails...then this would apply 100%. However, if you throw a rod? Better believe BMW isn't going to take a $20k hit for fear of Magnuson-Moss rebuttals.

While, like most lawsuits, the attorneys and the depth of their pockets play a role, it's hard for that to affect something as clear cut as Magnuson Moss. If something fails that isn't related to aftermarket parts, it's covered. If something fails that is affected by aftermarket parts, it's not. If you have a mechanically sound argument, you should win. They can try to stretch the reach of aftermarket parts as much as they want, but no matter how good their attorneys are or how much they're willing to spend, there's no way to say that my downpipe led to the failure of my control arms, but as the one trying to make the claim, you have to be sure that you have a good argument, which you alluded to. So I would argue in the realm of real world warranty claims, this is applied often in actuality.

[BettyFkinCrocker]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

While, like most lawsuits, the attorneys and the depth of their pockets play a role, it's hard for that to affect something as clear cut as Magnuson Moss. If something fails that isn't related to aftermarket parts, it's covered. If something fails that is affected by aftermarket parts, it's not. If you have a mechanically sound argument, you should win. They can try to stretch the reach of aftermarket parts as much as they want, but no matter how good their attorneys are or how much they're willing to spend, there's no way to say that my downpipe led to the failure of my control arms, but as the one trying to make the claim, you have to be sure that you have a good argument, which you alluded to. So I would argue in the realm of real world warranty claims, this is applied often in actuality.

isn't related to aftermarket parts - That's the point, this is subjective and debatable to a certain degree. As I stated, a suspension part failure can't be chalked up to a aftermarket turbo. But engine failure can. This is where the size of bank accounts likely decides the outcome as the BMW attorneys surely will have a plethora of evidence stacked against you, and you will now be burdened with the task of countering their argument\evidence. How much time can you spend on PTO because you have to attend court? How much money can you spend on an attorney to do the investigative work for you etc etc.

there's no way to say that my downpipe led to the failure of my control arms - And I 100% agree. However, that is outside of the context in which we are referencing. JD's comment was about an engine modification, and while maybe he was worried about his airbag warranty with his comment "because of the preservation of the warranty", I doubt that's what he is concerned would be jeopardized.

And I suppose there is a level of semantics here. I am referring to a scenario where he installs the Dinan tune, engine grenades and he goes into BMW waving his CPO warranty. They then pull some logs and see out of threshold boost levels etc. They then deny his warranty claim. His options are 1: eat the loss. 2: Continue to badger them and hope they budge( call BMW etc etc). Or 3: take them to court.

I recall Dinan being "approved" by BMW so I am not sure of the technicalities there. I am speaking in general of any engine modification.

The moral of the story (at least from my perspective) is, if you do any engine modifications and you encounter a SA that is not mod friendly, you will be facing an uphill battle. Is it possible that they warranty it? Sure. Is it likely that you will win a lawsuit against them for denying a warranty claim on a modified engine? Probably not. It's your money, take the risk if you feel comfortable. But the odds are against you and I'm not much of a gambling man. It certainly isn't black and white.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker

isn't related to aftermarket parts - That's the point, this is subjective and debatable to a certain degree. As I stated, a suspension part failure can't be chalked up to a aftermarket turbo. But engine failure can. This is where the size of bank accounts likely decides the outcome as the BMW attorneys surely will have a plethora of evidence stacked against you, and you will now be burdened with the task of countering their argument\evidence. How much time can you spend on PTO because you have to attend court? How much money can you spend on an attorney to do the investigative work for you etc etc.

there's no way to say that my downpipe led to the failure of my control arms - And I 100% agree. However, that is outside of the context in which we are referencing. JD's comment was about an engine modification, and while maybe he was worried about his airbag warranty with his comment "because of the preservation of the warranty", I doubt that's what he is concerned would be jeopardized.

And I suppose there is a level of semantics here. I am referring to a scenario where he installs the Dinan tune, engine grenades and he goes into BMW waving his CPO warranty. They then pull some logs and see out of threshold boost levels etc. They then deny his warranty claim. His options are 1: eat the loss. 2: Continue to badger them and hope they budge( call BMW etc etc). Or 3: take them to court.

I recall Dinan being "approved" by BMW so I am not sure of the technicalities there. I am speaking in general of any engine modification.

The moral of the story (at least from my perspective) is, if you do any engine modifications and you encounter a SA that is not mod friendly, you will be facing an uphill battle. Is it possible that they warranty it? Sure. Is it likely that you will win a lawsuit against them for denying a warranty claim on a modified engine? Probably not. It's your money, take the risk if you feel comfortable. But the odds are against you and I'm not much of a gambling man. It certainly isn't black and white.

Seems like we agree then. Dinan's not the best example because like you mentioned they are BMW approved, but say you install a JB+ or any tune, yes, like you said, you're fighting an uphill battle getting a blown engine (or blown turbo or waste gate actuator or differential etc. any powertrain part really) covered under warranty. 99% chance they don't cover it. I was just emphasizing the fact that if the part that fails isn't directly related to the modifications, they can't deny the claim, but we've both agreed on that already. Maybe I just think it's a tab more black and white than you do, but that's semantics. Perhaps I took it out of context of this exact discussion, because we're talking about engine mods, and if you blow your engine under CPO warranty and you have a tune, GL. But to be fair, his original question was will a tune void my warranty, and the short answer to that question is no (especially not Dinan).

[J.D.]

Thanks for the info, guys

I have some experience in service departments, actually was a SA for years (Not for BMW, I worked mostly for Toyota, Mopar, and VW). So I still have some understanding of warranty repair procedures, however each manufacturer is different, as are the products they sell and service.

There's so much info out there, and while I'm sure I would be attentive enough not to brick my own motor because of the tune, if it happens to fail anyway for whatever reason (or the tranny for that matter, or the turbo etc.) I'm afraid they wouldn't cover it under the CPO because "AFTERMARKET MODS!" I KNOW Toyota wouldn't do that, BMW I'm not so sure.


That's why Dinan attracts me. I mean, isn't the point of spending 1600 bucks on a piggyback, that it's "BMW approved" and therefore warranty copo?

That's kind of what I'm asking.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by J.D.

Thanks for the info, guys

I have some experience in service departments, actually was a SA for years (Not for BMW, I worked mostly for Toyota, Mopar, and VW). So I still have some understanding of warranty repair procedures, however each manufacturer is different, as are the products they sell and service.

There's so much info out there, and while I'm sure I would be attentive enough not to brick my own motor because of the tune, if it happens to fail anyway for whatever reason (or the tranny for that matter, or the turbo etc.) I'm afraid they wouldn't cover it under the CPO because "AFTERMARKET MODS!" I KNOW Toyota wouldn't do that, BMW I'm not so sure.


That's why Dinan attracts me. I mean, isn't the point of spending 1600 bucks on a piggyback, that it's "BMW approved" and therefore warranty copo?

That's kind of what I'm asking.

Yes, while Dinan does make good products anyway, most of their value is in the fact that (mostly) none of their products will have any warranty implications. As in, you could install anything from their tune to their big turbo and if you blew up your engine it would still be covered by BMW (I think Dinan also pays for some warranty repairs, but the bottom line is someone other than you will pay for it). That's why you're paying $1600 for a piggyback.

[J.D.]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Yes, while Dinan does make good products anyway, most of their value is in the fact that none of their products will have any warranty implications. As in, you could install anything from their tune to their big turbo and if you blew up your engine it would still be covered by BMW (I think Dinan also pays for some warranty repairs, but the bottom line is someone other than you will pay for it). That's why you're paying $1600 for a piggyback.

Awesome. Thanks. Dinan's signature vehicle packages look particularly tempting lol

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by J.D.

Awesome. Thanks. Dinan's signature vehicle packages look particularly tempting lol

Yah they make some cool all-together packages. Plus you get to flex the Dinan badge if you get one lol. Also, made a slight edit to my above post. They offer Dinantronics sport tunes which are effectively boost controllers that do not carry the same warranty as their full piggybacks or pretty much all other products. That's their only product that doesn't carry the warranty as far as I know, just wanted to point that out for thoroughness' sake

[alohasurftoad]

Originally Posted by J.D.

I would be more interested in a Dinan because of the preservation of the warranty. Just stage 1 for now. Does anyone know if installing that would void my CPO warranty?

this Dinan warranty topic has been discussed here before. my understanding and interpretation is that it does not "preserve" the BMW warranty as you think it does and it is not under a BMW approved umbrella, only those dealerships that are (and choose to be) Dinan Authorized. Dinan warranty runs concurrent with the original 4-50K warranty. 2 additional years from the date of purchase of the Dinan product, if outside of oem vehicle warranty.

example, if your car is 2015, you'd have to get Dinan Stage 1 installed at an authorized Dinan dealer and Dinan warranty will cover until the end of the month in 2019, of the original purchase date of the car, unless you've already exceeded 50K miles. plus 2 years from the original purchase date of the Dinan product, so 2020 of the original purchase month of your vehicle, if purchased this today? not sure.

not sure what is stated in the fine print of your CPO warranty but I would assume CPO warranty will not cover if aftermarket mods are done, incl. Dinan. At best, if your CPO was obtained from an authorized Dinan dealership maybe something was written in the warranty regarding Dinan modifications, but i doubt it. you'll have to read the fine print...

lastly, if a Dinan warranty claim is made, all your i's and t's had better be dotted and crossed as i bet it's not as easy as you're led to believe.

https://www.dinancars.com/warranty/

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by alohasurftoad

this Dinan warranty topic has been discussed here before. my understanding and interpretation is that it does not "preserve" the BMW warranty as you think it does and it is not under a BMW approved umbrella, only those dealerships that are (and choose to be) Dinan Authorized. Dinan warranty runs concurrent with the original 4-50K warranty. 2 additional years from the date of purchase of the Dinan product, if outside of oem vehicle warranty.

example, if your car is 2015, you'd have to get Dinan Stage 1 installed at an authorized Dinan dealer and Dinan warranty will cover until the end of the month in 2019, of the original purchase date of the car, unless you've already exceeded 50K miles. plus 2 years from the original purchase date of the Dinan product, so 2021 of the original purchase month of your vehicle? not sure.

not sure what is stated in the fine print of your CPO warranty but I would assume CPO warranty will not cover if aftermarket mods are done, incl. Dinan. At best, if your CPO was obtained from an authorized Dinan dealership maybe something was written in the warranty regarding Dinan modifications, but i doubt it. you'll have to read the fine print...

lastly, if a Dinan warranty claim is made, all your i's and t's had better be dotted and crossed as i bet it's not as easy as you're led to believe.

https://www.dinancars.com/warranty/

Wait... what I got from that, as well as reading the link you posted, is that the only thing their 'warranty' does is maintain BMW's new car warranty and after that has expired the only thing that is warrantied is their parts, for two years. And it says nothing about CPO. I was under the impression that you got a two year limited warranty after the install of their parts regardless of the status of your new car warranty. J.D. looks like I was wrong, sorry about that!

[J.D.]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Wait... what I got from that, as well as reading the link you posted, is that the only thing their 'warranty' does is maintain BMW's new car warranty and after that has expired the only thing that is warrantied is their parts, for two years. And it says nothing about CPO. I was under the impression that you got a two year limited warranty after the install of their parts regardless of the status of your new car warranty. J.D. looks like I was wrong, sorry about that!

I knew about the sport tuner not carrying the same warranty, thanks for the warning though.

As for the rest...dammit.

Guess I should call Dinan and my BMW dealer and get the scoop before I do anything.

Again, thanks for the info guys.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by J.D.

I knew about the sport tuner not carrying the same warranty, thanks for the warning though.

As for the rest...dammit.

Guess I should call Dinan and my BMW dealer and get the scoop before I do anything.

Again, thanks for the info guys.

Might be a good idea. Sorry for misinforming you a bit!

[fate_f30]

Originally Posted by BunkerJ

Not a JB4 user, but high flow DP and FMIC are the recommended mods for a stage II application.

How many hours to switch out the turbo? I'm thinking of going with the MHI turbo kit soon. Any other recommendations of parts or gaskets you would change out during the switch out?

[tbrazil]

Anyone have experience running meth injections with JB4 stage 2? Would it require a custom map 7 tune?