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      05-07-2021, 01:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
That reminds me, Dinan Shockware could also be an option. Lots of folks swear by it. Itís about $200.
BMW Calgary is a Dinan dealer so it's convenient. But shockware really isn't enough so op would need to get the Dinan lowering springs and ride handling kit. At that point, it's better to just go B16 and do proper coilovers.
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      05-07-2021, 01:10 PM   #24
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There will certainly be an adjustment period, without question. They're considerably different cars. That said I'd consider being less stringent on your requirements. Like you said, there's very few cars that fit that bill. Who knows, you may get into a RWD naturally aspirated car and fall in love. It's fun to try new things sometimes, though if you like what you like and you're set on that, I can respect that too. Just saying it might be fun to branch out a bit. Go test drive some other things and see if anything else gets you excited, because if you're really dead set on those things, you might be in that E90 for a looong time (which isn't a bad thing, it sounds like a great car, but you can't drive the same car forever).
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      05-07-2021, 01:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGT81 View Post
Thanks! Itís a 2008 Crimson Red 335xi. I also have a 1990 E34 M5, shown below. So Iím definitely a BMW enthusiast.

Yeah, the steering isnít bad. But thereís less feel, and a
Bit of a dead spot off centre.

Iím wondering if thereís a way for me to stiffen up the suspension? This car is an xDrive but it also said it had the Adaptive M Suspension. Is that separately adjustable somewhere? I had the car set to Sport mode, but not sure if the suspension is a separate adjustment?
If it has adaptive M suspension, look into Dinan Shockware. I have it on my F30 with adaptive suspension and it transformed the car. I don't have x-drive. Maybe some searching on this forum would give you some feedback on Shockware for x-drive. For me, it was a night and day different for the better. Good luck!
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      05-07-2021, 01:49 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotheran View Post
BMW Calgary is a Dinan dealer so it's convenient. But shockware really isn't enough so op would need to get the Dinan lowering springs and ride handling kit. At that point, it's better to just go B16 and do proper coilovers.

I think Dinan shockware is awesome. It's certainly worth $200 and if its not enough, as you say, he can take more aggressive steps.
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      05-07-2021, 01:59 PM   #27
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Does it have to be xdrive? If you can go rwd, upgrading to m3 lower control arm plus upgrading to the VAC monoball tension strut would drastically cut the "dead spot" in the middle of the steering.

Camber would be increased with the LCA as well which drastically increases turn in response.

Though in terms of "feel" electric can never replicate hydraulic.
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      05-07-2021, 02:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by E60F30 View Post
Though in terms of "feel" electric can never replicate hydraulic.
Dunno- Porsche is doing a pretty good job with their electric steering systems. Not sure why the Munchners cannot be as good.
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      05-07-2021, 03:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
If it has adaptive M suspension, look into Dinan Shockware. I have it on my F30 with adaptive suspension and it transformed the car. I don't have x-drive. Maybe some searching on this forum would give you some feedback on Shockware for x-drive. For me, it was a night and day different for the better. Good luck!
It does have the adaptive M suspension. What does the Dinan Shockware do, exactly? Going back right now to test drive again. I could inquire. Somebody mentioned that Calgary BMW is a Dinan dealer.
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      05-07-2021, 04:05 PM   #30
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It does have the adaptive M suspension. What does the Dinan Shockware do, exactly? Going back right now to test drive again. I could inquire. Somebody mentioned that Calgary BMW is a Dinan dealer.
Dinan Shockware reprograms the adaptive suspension to be tighter an more sporty.

When I got my F30 new, Comfort mode was a mess. There were no Adaptive Suspension F30s to test drive so I bought it not knowing how bad the stock programming was. Comfort mode was horrible. The car porpoised. I had to switch to Sport mode before even leaving my driveway. Sport was better, but still not acceptable to me.

Dinan Shockware changed all that. Comfort is more like Sport. Sport mode is another level of tight. After that I swapped out the run flats and now the car is perfect for the way I drive.

Here's a link to the Dinan site. Also, search this forum. You will read several testimonials, some of which are mine!

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...arts/D906-3001
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      05-07-2021, 07:43 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi5 View Post
Dunno- Porsche is doing a pretty good job with their electric steering systems. Not sure why the Munchners cannot be as good.
Because of this
Quote:
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.” - BMW driving-dynamics expert Johann Kistler
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/st...-steering-feel
and this
Quote:
Asked why 3-series steering is less communicative these days, two BMW chassis engineers have told us that they could match the feedback provided by electric assist with what they used to provide with hydraulic power steering, but “our customers don’t want it.” This is what happens when your primary mission is chasing volume in an attempt to beat Mercedes-Benz and Lexus for the luxury-brand sales crown year after year.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-test-review/
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      05-07-2021, 08:16 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anotheran View Post
Because of this

and this

BMW is a company in the business of selling cars. They have gone from niche player to a major force in the automotive industry by catering to the mass market. As a driving enthusiast, that can be off putting. As a business-minded person, I totally get what they are doing. If the CEO's job description can be summed up in a sentence, it to maximize shareholders' profits. Apparently, E90-like steering feel doesn't not fit into that equation or they would be doing it.

I wish they would offer steering that was more like hydraulic steering and I'm dumbfounded that they don't offer it as an option. But the percentage of drivers who want that feel probably small.

Honestly, I might even be one of the converts. I used to love the E90 steering and driving stick. Now, I get in my brother's E90 335 and, while fun, all that shifting to get the engine where the ZF 8-speed already knows to be just seems like too much as a daily driver. I'd only want MT as a weekend car at this point. And my brother's E90 335 steering feels like I'm driving a truck in terms of effort now that I've gotten used to electric steering. I cannot believe I am saying this to be honest but there it is. BMW knows the old fashion enthusiast is literally a dying breed. My son took over 2 of my previous BMWs when he was younger. Now he drives a Tesla. He could care less about E90 steering. BMW doesn't want to put that feel in their base models because they know that the 1% that actually has to have that performance will pay for an M. In the meantime, they are selling a boatload of cars by catering to the masses.

To answer the OPs question, I think the F30 is better than the E90 many ways as long as you can get comfortable with the change in steering feel.

Feel free to flame away. I've got my suit on.
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      05-07-2021, 08:36 PM   #33
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The F30s feel has some drawbacks. A lot of it is correctable if you swap a few parts.

Thing is, the car is capable and still a blast to drive. The same reviewers who bemoan the steering feel in one article will turn around and refer to it with gilded words when trashing the feel of another car, for example the F10 of the same era.

I found this article to be an interesting read on the subject:

https://www.apexraceparts.com/blog/f...m-a-track-day/
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      05-07-2021, 08:40 PM   #34
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How can you distinguish if your F30 has adaptive suspension or not? I apologize if someone already asked this. My 2016 340 xdrive has the different driving modes comfort, sport, an sport+. So, how would i know if it has adaptive suspension?
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      05-07-2021, 08:46 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulymu View Post
How can you distinguish if your F30 has adaptive suspension or not? I apologize if someone already asked this. My 2016 340 xdrive has the different driving modes comfort, sport, an sport+. So, how would i know if it has adaptive suspension?
If you have an xDrive, most likely it doesnít. Seems like itís less common on the AWD models.

Run your VIN through a decoder and look for 2VF. If itís there, youíve got it.
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      05-07-2021, 09:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulymu View Post
How can you distinguish if your F30 has adaptive suspension or not? I apologize if someone already asked this. My 2016 340 xdrive has the different driving modes comfort, sport, an sport+. So, how would i know if it has adaptive suspension?
You can look at your shocks and look for the circled:
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      05-07-2021, 09:30 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGT81 View Post
It does have the adaptive M suspension. What does the Dinan Shockware do, exactly? Going back right now to test drive again. I could inquire. Somebody mentioned that Calgary BMW is a Dinan dealer.
How did the drive go?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulymu View Post
How can you distinguish if your F30 has adaptive suspension or not? I apologize if someone already asked this. My 2016 340 xdrive has the different driving modes comfort, sport, an sport+. So, how would i know if it has adaptive suspension?
Check www.bimmer.work
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      05-07-2021, 09:44 PM   #38
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Just checked bimmer.code, and it looks like my 2016 6speed xdrive does have adaptive M suspension😎
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      05-08-2021, 02:34 AM   #39
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How did the drive go?



Check www.bimmer.work
Not great. I got there, and theyíd just switched the car over to 20ís (which are too big, IMO). Noticed as soon as I took it out, that the steeering felt squirrelly and weird. Low tire light came on almost immediately. Brought it back to the dealership. Unfortunately the service department was closed already. Sigh.

Coming back MOnday for a 3rd crack at this.
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      05-08-2021, 01:02 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by MGT81 View Post
Not great. I got there, and theyíd just switched the car over to 20ís (which are too big, IMO). Noticed as soon as I took it out, that the steeering felt squirrelly and weird. Low tire light came on almost immediately. Brought it back to the dealership. Unfortunately the service department was closed already. Sigh.

Coming back MOnday for a 3rd crack at this.
Could you be experiencing tramlining with the larger but shorter sidewall tires?
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      05-08-2021, 02:36 PM   #41
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One thing that I believe needs to be said is how different the F30 steering feels between pre LCI and post LCI. I drive a 2017 330i and the steering feels very good. It is somewhat light in comfort, but nowhere near how light the steering is on an Audi. In sport, it feels heavy and well weighted. I have not driven a pre-LCI F30, but I do think there's a significant difference in steering.
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      05-08-2021, 07:04 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGT81 View Post
...Part of my reluctance to replace it is the fact that it’s pretty hard to find a car that checks all my requirements, which are:
- Manual transmission
- Turbo engine with 260+ HP
- AWD
- 4 doors
- Decent interior refinement, and a decent ride (so not a WRX or Focus RS)

Not many cars that meet these criteria, but yesterday, I found a 2017 340i xDrive 6 MT with M Performance Packages I & II. B58 motor. Estoril Blue (which I love)

I test drove it today and while I loved the engine and exhaust sound, the steering just isn’t as sharp as my E90. The car feels a bit floatier, larger, blunter and less buttoned down than the E90. This isn’t me trying to pick apart the car - just my impressions from driving. It is what it is though. Still a very capable car.
At the same time, this thing is pretty a unicorn in terms of having the M performance packages, Manual transmission, B58, etc. Feel like I’ll kick myself if I miss out and need to replace my E90 in the near future. I’m trying to convince myself that I could learn to love it the same way I do my E90 now.

Are any of you former E90 owners and did you undergo an “adjustment” period with your F30? I’m mostly asking about in terms of the driving experience. Obviously there’s way more tech, screens, toys, etc but I don’t really care about that stuff as much....
You are going to be hard pressed to find ANY new car that will have the steering feel of any E9x. That being said, if this one has the Adaptive suspension that is a huge upgrade, I put it in sport for that tighter steering feel. Dinan has a software upgrade that is suppose to help also. Another mod will help the steering, change out the Upper Thrust Control Arm set, this is suppose to correct much of the softness:

Kies Motorsports VAC - F3X UPPER (THRUST) CONTROL ARM SET RWD

Although you may still crave the hydraulic steering, the late model F3x are better than earlier versions. They have 5 bolt strut vs. earlier 3 bolt struts and the electronics are updated to give a better feel. Although the E9x was awesome when driving, it can be rather tight in parking areas where slow speed and tight turns are required. This is where the electronic steering can really shine as it is easier. Yet in BMW fashion, the steering is precise and will go where you point it, it is predictable and reliable. The 2017 is late model run and many early bugs are gone. I put Eibach Springs on mine to get rid of the xDrive gap and front rake. These were virtually the same stiffness yet the lower car just handles corners much more level and tight although regrettably no change in steering feel.

My Son-in-law looked long and hard for several months for an Estoril Blue Manual xDrive. Two that came up had sold before he had all the information on the vehicles. The one he has now, was purchased from 800 miles away and was shipped to him. So I really suggest you jump on this if not already gone! If this does not have the MPPSK, have them add it and get a Dinan intake as this will now get this vehicle close to 370HP. The stock engine seems to flatten out above 5,500 RPM and the MPPSK will change that.
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      05-08-2021, 07:21 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpgray View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGT81 View Post
...Part of my reluctance to replace it is the fact that it’s pretty hard to find a car that checks all my requirements, which are:
- Manual transmission
- Turbo engine with 260+ HP
- AWD
- 4 doors
- Decent interior refinement, and a decent ride (so not a WRX or Focus RS)

Not many cars that meet these criteria, but yesterday, I found a 2017 340i xDrive 6 MT with M Performance Packages I & II. B58 motor. Estoril Blue (which I love)

I test drove it today and while I loved the engine and exhaust sound, the steering just isn’t as sharp as my E90. The car feels a bit floatier, larger, blunter and less buttoned down than the E90. This isn’t me trying to pick apart the car - just my impressions from driving. It is what it is though. Still a very capable car.
At the same time, this thing is pretty a unicorn in terms of having the M performance packages, Manual transmission, B58, etc. Feel like I’ll kick myself if I miss out and need to replace my E90 in the near future. I’m trying to convince myself that I could learn to love it the same way I do my E90 now.

Are any of you former E90 owners and did you undergo an “adjustment” period with your F30? I’m mostly asking about in terms of the driving experience. Obviously there’s way more tech, screens, toys, etc but I don’t really care about that stuff as much....
You are going to be hard pressed to find ANY new car that will have the steering feel of any E9x. That being said, if this one has the Adaptive suspension that is a huge upgrade, I put it in sport for that tighter steering feel. Dinan has a software upgrade that is suppose to help also. Another mod will help the steering, change out the Upper Thrust Control Arm set, this is suppose to correct much of the softness:

Kies Motorsports VAC - F3X UPPER (THRUST) CONTROL ARM SET RWD

Although you may still crave the hydraulic steering, the late model F3x are better than earlier versions. They have 5 bolt strut vs. earlier 3 bolt struts and the electronics are updated to give a better feel. Although the E9x was awesome when driving, it can be rather tight in parking areas where slow speed and tight turns are required. This is where the electronic steering can really shine as it is easier. Yet in BMW fashion, the steering is precise and will go where you point it, it is predictable and reliable. The 2017 is late model run and many early bugs are gone.

My Son-in-law looked long and hard for several months for an Estoril Blue Manual xDrive. Two that came up had sold before he had all the information on the vehicles. The one he has now, was purchased from 800 miles away and was shipped to him. So I really suggest you jump on this if not already gone! If this does not have the MPPSK, have them add it and get a Dinan intake as this will now get this vehicle close to 370HP. The stock engine seems to flatten out above 5,500 RPM and the MPPSK will change that.
I second the recommendation for the thrust arm upgrade. This drastically improved the steering precision for me but did not make it twitchy. It goes straight as an arrow until you tell it to turn, and then it goes exactly where you want it to. The feedback is improved slightly, you get more road feel, and you get harshness when you go over sharp bumps. I've gotten used to that tradeoff and would never go back. This is as good as the steering will get on this platform, but when all the plusses of the electric system are added to the improvements above, it's a pretty good system overall. It's not a Porsche, but it doesn't cost as much as one either. The nice thing about the f30 platform is that there is a huge aftermarket community that allows you to dial in the car to your liking and address the shortcomings that an enthusiast finds in it. As long as you aren't buying new, it's not so bad to sink a few grand into suspension, steering etc and end up with a great all around luxury sport sedan.
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      05-08-2021, 07:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sygazelle View Post
BMW is a company in the business of selling cars. They have gone from niche player to a major force in the automotive industry by catering to the mass market. As a driving enthusiast, that can be off putting. As a business-minded person, I totally get what they are doing. If the CEO's job description can be summed up in a sentence, it to maximize shareholders' profits. Apparently, E90-like steering feel doesn't not fit into that equation or they would be doing it.

I wish they would offer steering that was more like hydraulic steering and I'm dumbfounded that they don't offer it as an option. But the percentage of drivers who want that feel probably small.

Honestly, I might even be one of the converts. I used to love the E90 steering and driving stick. Now, I get in my brother's E90 335 and, while fun, all that shifting to get the engine where the ZF 8-speed already knows to be just seems like too much as a daily driver. I'd only want MT as a weekend car at this point. And my brother's E90 335 steering feels like I'm driving a truck in terms of effort now that I've gotten used to electric steering. I cannot believe I am saying this to be honest but there it is. BMW knows the old fashion enthusiast is literally a dying breed. My son took over 2 of my previous BMWs when he was younger. Now he drives a Tesla. He could care less about E90 steering. BMW doesn't want to put that feel in their base models because they know that the 1% that actually has to have that performance will pay for an M. In the meantime, they are selling a boatload of cars by catering to the masses.

To answer the OPs question, I think the F30 is better than the E90 many ways as long as you can get comfortable with the change in steering feel.

Feel free to flame away. I've got my suit on.
New G20 is as large as a E39 5-Series. No Manual Transmission offerings unless you get a "M". The late model F3x (LCI) is much better, I have owned three F3x models and my 2019 440i is far superior to my '13 328i. When the F30 came out in '12, they offered variable steering that is part of the LCI adaptive suspension. So when you put into sport mode, it does feel much better! My kids don't care about the steering but they like the BMW because they recognize the precise driving, they just do not understand it.

When my last BMW was totaled, I had to get something quickly, could not locate a 6-Speed that was optioned the way I liked without going to a "M" and although I could afford it, the insurance is double the 440i! I also tried to find a manual M2 close by but those are rare and it was smaller than I wanted.
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