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      09-06-2019, 01:05 PM   #1
codestar
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Major brake issues with Zimmerman/Pagid combo

Been dealing with a bit of a brake shitstorm the last few months, not even sure where to begin...

I bought front OEM Zimmerman rotors that match the dimpled/slotted M Performance rotors through a local vendor, and rear matching Zimmerman dimpled/slotted through an online vendor because of faster availability
Fronts part# 150-2905-20
Rears part# 150-2920-32

And was recommended OEM style Pagid pads from same local vendor
Part numbers# T2440 and T3143

I had them installed at my mechanic who is very well known locally and has been in business for nearly 100 years. The installation went fine, but right after leaving the shop, problem number 1 became apparent.

Problem 1:
As soon as I started driving, I noticed a swishing sound when NOT braking. It was extremely pronounced at higher speeds and driving near a wall/meridian. I thought I just needed to put some km's on them, however 5000km in the problem still hasn't gone away. It sounds almost like maracas are softly serenading me at all times while driving. When braking, I already expected noise due to the drilled/slotted but I have no idea why it would be happening with foot completely off the brake pedal.
Solution:
Still unresolved, and the mechanic has no idea why it would be making sound when NOT braking

Problem 2:
Now with about 5000km on these brakes, I've noticed the dreaded vibration under light to medium braking. It seems that now my 4 BRAND NEW rotors are warping(???). I brought it in to the shop, and they took everything apart and inspected all of the parts that are less than 3 months old. They determined that both the front AND the back rotors are both warped.

They strongly believe it's the Pagid pads are the most likely culprit to be the cause of the problem, and told me that the pads have been causing excessive heat to the discs. Now these are brand new OEM spec pads from an OEM manufacturer being used in conjunction with OEM discs.... what gives?
Solution:
They are assisting me in getting new discs in the front and rear, and have recommended switching to the Genuine BMW pads because they may have a different formulation than what the Pagid that I went through their catalogue to make sure were the proper pads for my car.

I don't race, track, drag, or really beat the shit out of my car in any way. I do enjoy spirited driving, but in the 5000km I've put on my brakes my clutch has been slipping so I've barely been pushing my car in the least bit. Not sure what direction to go with them. Any input would be great
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      09-06-2019, 01:44 PM   #2
BMWILUVU
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All 4 rotors warping is hard to believe. Did you bed in the brakes correctly? Rotors & calipers installed correctly?
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      09-06-2019, 02:23 PM   #3
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I have the same rotors, zero issues with my EBC Yellow Stuffs.
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      09-06-2019, 03:12 PM   #4
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Have you verified none of your calipers are seized? This happened to me on my GTI a couple years ago. One was frozen and caused the same issues.
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      09-06-2019, 03:39 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWILUVU View Post
All 4 rotors warping is hard to believe. Did you bed in the brakes correctly? Rotors & calipers installed correctly?
Just got this from the mechanic:
Fronts were measured 0.002in out of line
Rears 0.004 and 0.005
They were removed, cleaned, hubs cleaned, and reset and remeasured.
+/- 0.001 tolerance

So the fronts are essentially fine accounting for +/-
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      09-06-2019, 03:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo View Post
I have the same rotors, zero issues with my EBC Yellow Stuffs.
Jealous. Do they buzz/swish/make noise when not braking?
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      09-06-2019, 03:42 PM   #7
codestar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eschmacher View Post
Have you verified none of your calipers are seized? This happened to me on my GTI a couple years ago. One was frozen and caused the same issues.
No, however my car doesn't pull in any direction while in operation or braking... wouldn't that be enough to rule that out? I do trust these guys to notice something like that when completely taking apart and inspecting
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      09-06-2019, 04:30 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codestar View Post
Jealous. Do they buzz/swish/make noise when not braking?
No noise, although with the window down I can hear the pads make contact when the I gently press the brakes. They are also a bit squeaky at low speed after driving for a while.
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      09-07-2019, 06:18 AM   #9
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Problem 1 - with the dimpled/slotted rotor, you will always have the swishing sound, and especially noticeable beside a wall (because the wall amplifies it). It’s like a standing fan - the faster the speed (blade), the louder the noise. It has to do with the dimples and slots.
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      09-07-2019, 07:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liveevil View Post
Problem 1 - with the dimpled/slotted rotor, you will always have the swishing sound, and especially noticeable beside a wall (because the wall amplifies it). It’s like a standing fan - the faster the speed (blade), the louder the noise. It has to do with the dimples and slots.
This ^

The same sound is very apparent with BMW drilled/slotted rotors. I had the same on my car when the front brakes were upgraded by BMW when I had the MPPK installed.
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      09-07-2019, 07:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codestar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWILUVU View Post
All 4 rotors warping is hard to believe. Did you bed in the brakes correctly? Rotors & calipers installed correctly?
Just got this from the mechanic:
Fronts were measured 0.002in out of line
Rears 0.004 and 0.005
They were removed, cleaned, hubs cleaned, and reset and remeasured.
+/- 0.001 tolerance

So the fronts are essentially fine accounting for +/-
Clearly the rotors aren't warped. The most likely cause is uneven pad deposits, although you may also want to check for wheel bearing wear, correctly inflated tyres, geometry and tyre wear.

Discs should be washed/degreased before fitting. The pads and rotors should then be properly bedded - there are multiple benefits.

Uneven pad deposits.can be formed when the brakes are hot and the car is held stationary using the foot brake, and wet environments when the car is parked (rotors can rust more where they are shielded by the pads).

Driving and moderately firm brake pedal to to clean and warm the rotors, followed by a full bedding process, almost always resolves the problem.
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      09-09-2019, 03:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Clearly the rotors aren't warped. The most likely cause is uneven pad deposits, although you may also want to check for wheel bearing wear, correctly inflated tyres, geometry and tyre wear.

Discs should be washed/degreased before fitting. The pads and rotors should then be properly bedded - there are multiple benefits.

Uneven pad deposits.can be formed when the brakes are hot and the car is held stationary using the foot brake, and wet environments when the car is parked (rotors can rust more where they are shielded by the pads).

Driving and moderately firm brake pedal to to clean and warm the rotors, followed by a full bedding process, almost always resolves the problem.
I'm fairly confident that they were bedded properly, but I will investigate doing this.

As an update, all vendors who I bought from have agreed to replace the parts. For the rears the website asked that I send documentation from the mechanic and they assessed that it was worth a replacement

I was looking to switch to drilled instead of dimpled because of the noise but the site does not offer a crossed drilled rear 345x24 rotor so I won't be switching to it

I'll be sticking with the genuine pads since that's what was recommended and they are replacing them for free


Edit: Switching to Genuine BMW msport pads vs Pagid OEM style which I originally bought
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      09-09-2019, 03:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liveevil View Post
Problem 1 - with the dimpled/slotted rotor, you will always have the swishing sound, and especially noticeable beside a wall (because the wall amplifies it). It’s like a standing fan - the faster the speed (blade), the louder the noise. It has to do with the dimples and slots.
After doing more research on the matter I see that I'm not alone in it. I'm used to the sound now anyways. I'll just deal with it until I (hopefully) get a next gen m4
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      09-10-2019, 03:52 PM   #14
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codestar, what Pagid brake pads did you select? Pagid offers at least 4 different kind of brake pads.

Your problems are not unique.

Harder pad = meets OEM rotor: less brake dust at the expense of the rotor lifespan and accelerated chance of warping.

Softer pad = meets OEM rotor: more brake dust but the rotor will last longer. This is OEM BMW scenario. I prefer this scenario as initial bite will be typically better.

"Somewhere in the middle" brake pad = meets OEM rotor. There are many other brake pad options which are a bit harder than OEM (less dust) but not hard enough to "grind through" the rotor.

The swooshing sound is normal with dimpled / slotted rotor. As the brake pad glides over the dimples, the air compresses and escapes. Other than for aesthetics, dimpled / slotted rotors are not needed for daily driving. If "ready to race" brake appearance is a must, AP Racing and Brembo offer much better rotors with J Hook vents and directional vents respectively.
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      09-19-2019, 10:57 AM   #15
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I use pagid with Zimmerman exclusively.
Every few months I have to take my wife’s x3 out and wail on it then re bed the brakes (typical lady driver, uses the brakes frequently, doesn’t coast, often rides the brakes when near other cars etc)

You might want to try a different pad, can be an el cheapo autozone pad just for the purposes of cleaning off the deposits on the rotors, then go back to the pagid.
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      09-26-2019, 02:13 PM   #16
codestar
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Thanks everyone for chipping in!

Update:

Both vendors agreed to exchange the original discs for brand new ones. Followed the recommendation to switch to Genuine BMW mp pads.

Surprise surprise, EVERYTHING is better. They are the same dimpled/slotted rotors and have ZERO noise while driving. Also ZERO pulsation/vibrations under braking. I'm amazed that the noise that is apparently prevalent for these discs disappeared, but it is 100% gone now.

I've put about 1300km on them so far (mostly windy and hilly highway on a work trip with a fair amount of braking) and the they are performing top notch, LOVING it
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