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      11-22-2011, 10:49 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I know, how f_cked up is that?

Whats worse, is it doesnt look like the 19's are an option on the 328
It's funny that folks complain about staggered tires and work hard to get a square setup, and when BMW offers a square setup people complain and wish for a staggered setup.

I do think that 225's on a 335i might be a little small, Audi offers a 245 or 255 square setup on the A4, it does seem odd that BMW wouldn't offer something similar. Given the recent BMW trend towards more and more understeer, I would gladly take a square setup over staggered.
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      11-22-2011, 11:06 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
It's funny that folks complain about staggered tires and work hard to get a square setup, and when BMW offers a square setup people complain and wish for a staggered setup.

I do think that 225's on a 335i might be a little small, Audi offers a 245 or 255 square setup on the A4, it does seem odd that BMW wouldn't offer something similar. Given the recent BMW trend towards more and more understeer, I would gladly take a square setup over staggered.
Audi is awd...you want a square setup on awd is no problem...on rwd tho, i would like a wider tire in the read...225/45/18 in the rear are going to be gone in 6000 miles, and the handling is better with staggered.
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      11-22-2011, 11:35 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
and the handling is better with staggered.
Explain? Even sized tires and a 50/50 weight balance will provide the most neutral and balanced handling, which is why many track junkies move to a square setup. Staggered setups have generally occurred for two reasons, it looks aggressive (which you could call marketing) and it helps introduce understeer, which keeps people safe, but it does not make for better handling.

Assuming they can fit, consider 245's in a square setup vs the current 225/255 combination. Handling would be better with 245's, braking (90% of which moves to the front tires and brakes under full effort) would be better too. You could rotate too, which would give significantly longer life to all four tires. I'd actually be tempted to order my F31 with the lowest spec wheels and the adaptive suspension and upgrade wheels and tires to a more aggressive square setup.

Last edited by Red Bread; 11-22-2011 at 11:40 AM..
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      11-22-2011, 01:12 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Explain? Even sized tires and a 50/50 weight balance will provide the most neutral and balanced handling, which is why many track junkies move to a square setup. Staggered setups have generally occurred for two reasons, it looks aggressive (which you could call marketing) and it helps introduce understeer, which keeps people safe, but it does not make for better handling.

Assuming they can fit, consider 245's in a square setup vs the current 225/255 combination. Handling would be better with 245's, braking (90% of which moves to the front tires and brakes under full effort) would be better too. You could rotate too, which would give significantly longer life to all four tires. I'd actually be tempted to order my F31 with the lowest spec wheels and the adaptive suspension and upgrade wheels and tires to a more aggressive square setup.
More surface area in the rear=more traction. I'll take the added traction of a staggered setup knowing the car might be more susceptible to understeer. Not to mention i prefer a small tire upfront for improved steering response. IMO
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      11-23-2011, 09:23 AM   #115
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I think both of you are correct BUT doesn't it really boil down to driving style which would determine your setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Explain? Even sized tires and a 50/50 weight balance will provide the most neutral and balanced handling, which is why many track junkies move to a square setup. Staggered setups have generally occurred for two reasons, it looks aggressive (which you could call marketing) and it helps introduce understeer, which keeps people safe, but it does not make for better handling.

Assuming they can fit, consider 245's in a square setup vs the current 225/255 combination. Handling would be better with 245's, braking (90% of which moves to the front tires and brakes under full effort) would be better too. You could rotate too, which would give significantly longer life to all four tires. I'd actually be tempted to order my F31 with the lowest spec wheels and the adaptive suspension and upgrade wheels and tires to a more aggressive square setup.
More surface area in the rear=more traction. I'll take the added traction of a staggered setup knowing the car might be more susceptible to understeer. Not to mention i prefer a small tire upfront for improved steering response. IMO
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      11-23-2011, 09:49 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
You obviously didnt understand what i wrote. Its ridiculous to force someone to buy a 3000 dollar navigation they dont need just to get the 1000 heads up display.

I have no problem with bundling options and charging less calling it a package.
It's a business decision. BMW builds over 100,000 3 series every year. They need to realize economies of scale so not everything can be a la carte.

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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
More surface area in the rear=more traction. I'll take the added traction of a staggered setup knowing the car might be more susceptible to understeer. Not to mention i prefer a small tire upfront for improved steering response. IMO
Any traction improvements you get with a wider tire in the rear is offset by an increase in understeer when cornerning. Contrary to your belief, a car with staggered wheels does not necessarily handle better. It's more of an aesthetic benefit than anything.
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      11-23-2011, 09:58 AM   #117
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Sucks, I'm one month short of eligibility.
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      11-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #118
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Get all the options!!!!!!!!!!
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      11-23-2011, 10:53 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MassBimmer View Post
It's a business decision. BMW builds over 100,000 3 series every year. They need to realize economies of scale so not everything can be a la carte.



Any traction improvements you get with a wider tire in the rear is offset by an increase in understeer when cornerning. Contrary to your belief, a car with staggered wheels does not necessarily handle better. It's more of an aesthetic benefit than anything.
Then why are racing cars like this? Why does porsche, ferrari, and every other major RWD car come with a staggered in sport? Even lamborghini AWD is using staggered setup. An experienced driver will benefit from the added traction you are getting in the rear, and the benefits of staggered outweigh the negatives IMO.
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      11-23-2011, 11:11 AM   #120
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Staggered setup is to prevent idiots from provoking oversteer as easily and ending up in a wall.
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      11-23-2011, 11:14 AM   #121
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Quote:
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Staggered setup is to prevent idiots from provoking oversteer as easily and ending up in a wall.
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      11-23-2011, 12:17 PM   #122
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Heated Rear Seating is awesome for a car in this class. Looks like it'll make a good DD!
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      11-23-2011, 12:48 PM   #123
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It says there are sop options to choose from when selecting sportline...

High-Gloss Black trim OR Brushed aluminum trim ------> they are talking about exterior around the windows, correct?

Highlight trim finishers Coral Redd Matt OR High-Gloss Black---->this is talking about the accents in the car and along the dash correct?

Choices choices choices lol
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      11-25-2011, 12:56 AM   #124
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[QUOTE=justinnum1;10823967]Son of a bitch!

My thoughts exactly!

So if I want a black interior with sport seats, I'm stuck with that ugly red stitching?
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      11-25-2011, 11:12 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
It says there are sop options to choose from when selecting sportline...

High-Gloss Black trim OR Brushed aluminum trim ------> they are talking about exterior around the windows, correct?

Highlight trim finishers Coral Redd Matt OR High-Gloss Black---->this is talking about the accents in the car and along the dash correct?
The first one is the color of the taller interior trim strip that is around the vents.
The second one is the color of the thin strip that runs across the bottom of the above strip.

Black + Black is not an options, so you can get either:
- Black with Red bottom strip
- Aluminum with Red bottom strip
- Aluminum with Black bottom strip
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      11-25-2011, 12:07 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcbrew View Post
The first one is the color of the taller interior trim strip that is around the vents.
The second one is the color of the thin strip that runs across the bottom of the above strip.

Black + Black is not an options, so you can get either:
- Black with Red bottom strip
- Aluminum with Red bottom strip
- Aluminum with Black bottom strip
Thanks, yea, the aluminum with black high gloss bottom strip is the nicest looking imo.
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      11-25-2011, 12:09 PM   #127
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If it makes you feel any better, you can get the modern package with the sport rims. This might be the route I take.

Think about it. What is in the sport line that makes it sport? NOTHING! a modern line is as just as sport as the sport line, except for a couple of body style lines.

You can get a modern line with sport auto, sport suspension and the sport rims (397, 401 I think) !! NO RED LINES!! LOL!!
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      11-25-2011, 12:12 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzcrna View Post
If it makes you feel any better, you can get the modern package with the sport rims. This might be the route I take.

Think about it. What is in the sport line that makes it sport? NOTHING! a modern line is as just as sport as the sport line, except for a couple of body style lines.

You can get a modern line with sport auto, sport suspension and the sport rims (397, 401 I think) !! NO RED LINES!! LOL!!
what about sport suspension and seats, they seemingly cannot be ordered alone, that's what's frustrating
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      11-25-2011, 12:16 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
what about sport suspension and seats, they seemingly cannot be ordered alone, that's what's frustrating
Yea...sport seats require sportline.

I am going to try my hardest to see if i can somehow get my car ordered with xenons and not ZPP...doubt it but worth a try.
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      11-25-2011, 12:29 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Yea...sport seats require sportline.

I am going to try my hardest to see if i can somehow get my car ordered with xenons and not ZPP...doubt it but worth a try.
you can get sport suspension as a stand alone option I believe, but I forgot about the sport seats.

What do the sport seats actually have that the other ones do not?

I also asked in the Q and A if the modern line always came with a brown dashboard, pannels and steering wheel. Im afraid that is probably the case. Although it would see weird to have black seats and brown steering wheel, etc.
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      11-25-2011, 12:35 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzcrna View Post
you can get sport suspension as a stand alone option I believe, but I forgot about the sport seats.

What do the sport seats actually have that the other ones do not?

I also asked in the Q and A if the modern line always came with a brown dashboard, pannels and steering wheel. Im afraid that is probably the case. Although it would see weird to have black seats and brown steering wheel, etc.
Sport seats are a must IMO...when driving aggressively i like to be held firmly in my seat...regualr seat dont offer the lateral support the sport seats do..plus the sport seats in my e90 had power adjustable side bolsters so they can really hug you.

Other thing you get with sportline that would be a must imo is the sport+ mode...other wise you just get eco, comfort, and sport.
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      11-25-2011, 12:36 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Sport seats are a must IMO...when driving aggressively i like to be held firmly in my seat...regualr seat dont offer the lateral support the sport seats do..plus the sport seats in my e90 had power adjustable side bolsters so they can really hug you.

Other thing you get with sportline that would be a must imo is the sport+ mode...other wise you just get eco, comfort, and sport.
Great tip about the sport plus. Are you sure about that?

Also I messed up. You cannot get the sport suspension as a stand alone option with the modern line. Sorry
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