[Jnursey]

I am planning on running BM3 Stage 2 on my car (435i) along with catless DP, new CP, and FMIC.

I am ballin on a budget and was leaning towards a CTS Turbo or BMS intercooler (~$350) but a lot of what I am reading seems to suggest a more beefed up FMIC.

My question is, would I be fine with one of the "lower end" FMIC such as CTS, BMS, VRSF 5"? or is it majorly in my best interest to consider something more substantial?

How about the 6.5" VRSF (Performance)?


Also, I live in Florida just FYI.

[RalF-BMW]

I got the 5" VRSF and I'm happy with it. Fitment is perfect and its very well made. The only drawback for me is the weight. It's like 5 times heavier than the original intercooler and the mounting screws go into plastic supports. I'm still trying to find another way to support the intercooler and not put excessive stress on those plastic supports.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by Jnursey

How about the 6.5" VRSF (Performance)? Also, I live in Florida just FYI.

Good Choice

[435gc]

Intercooler is also supported by the cp and tic. And to a limited extent the belly pan even. Never heard of anybody having their intercooler fall out. Even those with models heavier than the one you are looking at.

[Jnursey]

Originally Posted by 435gc

Intercooler is also supported by the cp and tic. And to a limited extent the belly pan even. Never heard of anybody having their intercooler fall out. Even those with models heavier than the one you are looking at.

I’m not concerned with the weight or it falling out. But rather it’s cooling capability when running Stage 2.

[Tpriest7893]

I also have the 5" VRSF and I am in Florida. I don't drive crazy and I'll do pulls here and there and everything seems great. People will say go bigger but it depends on what you'll be doing and your budget. Everything bolted up great with a BMS charge pipe as well.

[AmuroRay]

Go with the 6.5 competition - it offers a good amount more head room AND is only $100 more.

The rest of the ICs you listed are barely enough for stage 1, and would quickly get overwhelmed in Florida in the summer.

[sqwinny]

Buy the CSF. Someone on the forum is selling it here for 400 shipped.

N55 part out CSF intercooler VRSF CP https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1776432

[AmuroRay]

That CSF is nice, but I’d put money down the VRSF competition cools better and isn’t much more brand new.

[Silverlining_m2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Go with the 6.5 competition - it offers a good amount more head room AND is only $100 more.

The rest of the ICs you listed are barely enough for stage 1, and would quickly get overwhelmed in Florida in the summer.

5" vrsf is more than enough for stage 2, as is 6.5. To my knowledge, going bigger isn't necessary unless you're upgrading your actual turbo. Stage 2 bm3 gets you to a little under 400whp. This screenshot is from vrsf website.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by f32spaceship

5" vrsf is more than enough for stage 2, as is 6.5. To my knowledge, going bigger isn't necessary unless you're upgrading your actual turbo. Stage 2 bm3 gets you to a little under 400whp. This screenshot is from vrsf website.

No, it's really not. And while it's the HD Fin Pack, it's actually less dense than the competition and race. (16 fins an inch vs 20 fins an inch)

Next - here is you running into IAT issues in 64F (18C) Ambient temps. Your IAT goes 93F (34C) to 118F (48C) in [ONE GEAR.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=359
If you're struggling at this powerlevel, how do you think someone else in a hotter climate will fare?


This intercooler is too small for stage 2, and no one will convince me otherwise. Pay the extra hundred dollars and get the better product. Edit -it's $40 dollars.
https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-interc...i-n20-n55.html

Just for the sake of argument, here is a VRSF competition model in 79F ambient weather, stage 2 car:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195

[mike@x-ph.com]

i recommend a 6"+ for an FBO setup. CSF and Wagner EVO II are my top 2 choices if the budget allows it. MAD also offers a 7" intercooler with HD fin pack for an unbeatable price

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

i recommend a 6"+ for an FBO setup. CSF and Wagner EVO II are my top 2 choices if the budget allows it. MAD also offers a 7" intercooler with HD fin pack for an unbeatable price

I believe the CSF is a 5.5" core, but it does cool well (should be a little better than the ATM and Evo 2)

The Wagner Evo 2 is one of the worst products that you carry bar none. It's more expensive and performs worse than any other intercooler named here.

I've never heard of MAD.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I believe the CSF is a 5.5" core, but it does cool well (should be a little better than the ATM and Evo 2)

The Wagner Evo 2 is one of the worst products that you carry bar none. It's more expensive and performs worse than any other intercooler named here.

I've never heard of MAD.

lets agree to disagree on Wagner, i do not want to turn this thread to another 10 page long back and forth intercooler discussion. You do seem to be in all these threads by the way

MAD is a new brand, they manufacturer products for other well know brand. they just started offering their products directly

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

lets agree to disagree on Wagner, i do not want to turn this thread to another 10 page long back and forth intercooler discussion. You do seem to be in all these threads by the way

MAD is a new brand, they manufacturer products for other well know brand. they just started offering their products directly

I spent a lot of time researching, I'm happy when I get to use the information I have. Trust me when I say, I have no loyalty to any product/manufacturer - I just provide the information and ultimately, it's up to people to make the choices for themselves.

And I just saw the MAD core on your webpage - Wow!

[435gc]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

lets agree to disagree on Wagner, i do not want to turn this thread to another 10 page long back and forth intercooler discussion. You do seem to be in all these threads by the way

MAD is a new brand, they manufacturer products for other well know brand. they just started offering their products directly

With the similar price point, how would you compare the MAD 5 and 7 inch to the vrsf 5 and race?
Weight, fin density, volume, etc..

I see on your website the weight of the MAD but I don't see any vrsf. You do not carry them anymore?

[Pussiwillow]

That MAD cooler is massive
Damnnn
Someone buy this and log with it

[NEWTRON]

Originally Posted by 435gc

With the similar price point, how would you compare the MAD 5 and 7 inch to the vrsf 5 and race?
Weight, fin density, volume, etc..

I see on your website the weight of the MAD but I don't see any vrsf. You do not carry them anymore?

from all of the hints it seems that they are the same products.

[Jnursey]

Thanks for all of the responses. Right now I am leaning towards the 6.5" VRSF (Performance).

[Silverlining_m2]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

No, it's really not. And while it's the HD Fin Pack, it's actually less dense than the competition and race. (16 fins an inch vs 20 fins an inch)

Next - here is you running into IAT issues in 64F (18C) Ambient temps. Your IAT goes 93F (34C) to 118F (48C) in [ONE GEAR.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=359
If you're struggling at this powerlevel, how do you think someone else in a hotter climate will fare?


This intercooler is too small for stage 2, and no one will convince me otherwise. Pay the extra hundred dollars and get the better product. Edit -it's $40 dollars.
https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-interc...i-n20-n55.html

Just for the sake of argument, here is a VRSF competition model in 79F ambient weather, stage 2 car:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195

My bm3 is set to Imperial measument sir. That increase is nowhere near what you claim it to be. It's 14 degrees and ptf amd others have verified my logs are good.

[5w20]

If you do a heavy amount of back to back pulls get the bigger 6.5+ intercoolers, if you occasionally do pulls then any basic upgrade will do. Yes, the smaller ones will have higher temp increases but a short 2 or maybe even 3 gear pull and then you cruise for a few minutes the temp will drop back to normal. Not everyone here beats on their car regularly.

On a side note, I don’t think people are taking into account the regular bumper and M sport bumper when comparing data. I’m pretty sure the M sport bumpers are far more efficient than the regular bumpers at directing air into the intercooler.

Fwiw I’m running the cheap eBay/Amazon 5” intercooler on a stage 2+ map with a non M sport bumper (m sport is currently being painted), and I know I do see big temp increases when making pulls. I am currently looking for a deal (used intercooler &#128514 to upgrade.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

No, it's really not. And while it's the HD Fin Pack, it's actually less dense than the competition and race. (16 fins an inch vs 20 fins an inch)

Next - here is you running into IAT issues in 64F (18C) Ambient temps. Your IAT goes 93F (34C) to 118F (48C) in [ONE GEAR.
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=359
If you're struggling at this powerlevel, how do you think someone else in a hotter climate will fare?


This intercooler is too small for stage 2, and no one will convince me otherwise. Pay the extra hundred dollars and get the better product. Edit -it's $40 dollars.
https://www.vr-speed.com/vrsf-interc...i-n20-n55.html

Just for the sake of argument, here is a VRSF competition model in 79F ambient weather, stage 2 car:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1752195

I generally subscribe to the idea that bigger is better when it comes to FMICs, even if it does mean a bit of pressure drop: I'll take that in exchange for low IATs. However, I wouldn't say that the popular 5" models are too small for stage 2. Sure a bigger intercooler will do better, naturally, but the 5" isn't necessarily under performing or becoming a glaring weak point. When I do an FMIC I'm gonna get one of the big ones, but that doesn't mean people who choose a smaller one because they don't plan on anything past stage 2 and/or want to save a few bucks are doing something terribly wrong. Just my .02