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      05-15-2020, 06:35 AM   #23
F32Fleet
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Originally Posted by wesmeister View Post
......
Ah yes, warranty. I bought the car "as-is" from a BMW dealership. It had the typical 75 point inspection and looked good mechanically and aesthetically when I purchased it. I went ahead with an aftermarket warranty from the dealership, that BMW honors at all of their dealerships. The car might end up back there, depending on what my mechanic finds next...
......
I understand starting a thread for sharing info and getting opinions, but why did you not immediately go to BMW if you have a warranty? Aren't you just burning money with this indy?
+1.
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      05-15-2020, 06:48 AM   #24
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Neither FCP Euro, or any other reputable retailer, would knowingly sell counterfeit plugs.

How do you know the previous owner ran only 89 octane?

Cracked insulator is almost always user error on install or removal.

LSPI wouldn't damage a plug and these engines aren't known for having LSPI issues. A LSPI event wouldn't occur at 4k rpm anyways. It's too high by a factor of 2.

My guess is that the previous owner tuned the vehicle and/or abused it. The previous owner or the dealer could've flashed it back to stock.
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      05-15-2020, 10:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by wesmeister View Post
Would FPC Euro sell me Chinese knockoffs that are identical in boxing and finish to real NGK's for $15 each? I guess anything is possible... but I didn't buy spark plugs off Ebay or something.

I bought these exact plugs: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...plug-ngk-96987

The car had a rough idle when I bought it. The plugs were changed as part of a regular tune-up I did myself, to include new OEM oil filter, air filter, and Liqui Molly 5w-30.
I reread the thread. Apparently, I missed the part about you purchasing from FCP. If you bought from them, I think you're safe; definitely a reputable source for German car parts.

I'm wondering if when the indy replaced the original plugs, if he didn't have the correct socket and cracked the ceramic insulator on the old ones upon removal, maybe some pieces remained behind and fell into the cylinder upon removal. I can see this happening it the socket was slipping due to not being able to completely get around the nut and he kept pulling his ratchet out to reposition.

I considered LSPI damage as well, but like Fleet said, these engines aren't really known for that, and these engines are rated for 89 octane gas. Unless the PO was using some really crappy quality gas.
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      05-15-2020, 10:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post

My guess is that the previous owner tuned the vehicle and/or abused it. The previous owner or the dealer could've flashed it back to stock.
Very plausible, especially if the car was a lease return. I had this concern myself when I purchased mine CPO back in 2018. Hopefully that wasn't the case here.

Last edited by IraHayes; 05-15-2020 at 10:25 AM..
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      05-15-2020, 11:39 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
I reread the thread. Apparently, I missed the part about you purchasing from FCP. If you bought from them, I think you're safe; definitely a reputable source for German car parts.

I'm wondering if when the indy replaced the original plugs, if he didn't have the correct socket and cracked the ceramic insulator on the old ones upon removal, maybe some pieces remained behind and fell into the cylinder upon removal. I can see this happening it the socket was slipping due to not being able to completely get around the nut and he kept pulling his ratchet out to reposition.

I considered LSPI damage as well, but like Fleet said, these engines aren't really known for that, and these engines are rated for 89 octane gas. Unless the PO was using some really crappy quality gas.
Well, if you actually read the thread, OP changed the plugs himself (the first time), not the shop. I agree as i suggested a lot earlier that installation/removal error likely cracked the ceramic. There was another thread recently where someone did just that and did drop ceramic debris into the cylinder.
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      05-19-2020, 11:17 AM   #28
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By the way, please do let us know what comes of this.
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      05-20-2020, 03:43 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Neither FCP Euro, or any other reputable retailer, would knowingly sell counterfeit plugs.

How do you know the previous owner ran only 89 octane?

Cracked insulator is almost always user error on install or removal.

LSPI wouldn't damage a plug and these engines aren't known for having LSPI issues. A LSPI event wouldn't occur at 4k rpm anyways. It's too high by a factor of 2.

My guess is that the previous owner tuned the vehicle and/or abused it. The previous owner or the dealer could've flashed it back to stock.
Actually all fuel fillups of the car, and the octane class rating, are stored in the DME for the life of the car. We found 109 fillups of 89 octane through ISTA.

Agreed. The only reason LSPI came up as a possible condition for the detonation that is happening is because the apparent load seems to remain a factor, but the event happens much later in the rpm range.

So with this car you can:

Let's say you're going 35 mph.
If you downshift to a lower gear that brings the rpm up to around 4K, you can accelerate through all gears to redline without a hiccup.
BUT, if you are already in a low rpm state (say 2.5K rpm) at speed and accelerate in that steady gear until 4-5K'ish rpm... it will super knock and shutdown.

I tell ya man, it's weird as hell.

Last edited by wesmeister; 05-20-2020 at 03:50 PM..
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      05-20-2020, 03:45 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
By the way, please do let us know what comes of this.
We are attempting to invoke that 3rd party warranty I purchased and replace the engine. If my claim is denied, I honestly don't know what to do. Might have to live with it since I am so upside down on the car loan.

Here is the current status with pictures if anyone wants to take a look:

https://xoxocar.com/inspection.aspx?...f83&sb=def&b=1
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      05-21-2020, 07:40 AM   #31
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This is wild. Thanks for keeping us updated. I would love to see it with the head off and get actual pics of the cylinder. That borescope they are using looks like a potato took the photos
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      05-21-2020, 11:01 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by n00bkiller944 View Post
This is wild. Thanks for keeping us updated. I would love to see it with the head off and get actual pics of the cylinder. That borescope they are using looks like a potato took the photos
Haha right?! And that's the SECOND borescope they used... the first one was even worse. Looked like an underwater scene in a murky pond taken with an old polaroid.
But I guess if maybe the cylinders are filled with pond water... that would explain a lot!
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      05-21-2020, 12:34 PM   #33
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At least you have good humor about it! Keep us updated.
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      06-25-2020, 03:17 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesmeister View Post
Haha right?! And that's the SECOND borescope they used... the first one was even worse. Looked like an underwater scene in a murky pond taken with an old polaroid.
But I guess if maybe the cylinders are filled with pond water... that would explain a lot!
Whatever happened with your car? Any updates?
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      07-02-2020, 06:48 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesmeister View Post
Actually all fuel fillups of the car, and the octane class rating, are stored in the DME for the life of the car. We found 109 fillups of 89 octane through ISTA.

Agreed. The only reason LSPI came up as a possible condition for the detonation that is happening is because the apparent load seems to remain a factor, but the event happens much later in the rpm range.

So with this car you can:

Let's say you're going 35 mph.
If you downshift to a lower gear that brings the rpm up to around 4K, you can accelerate through all gears to redline without a hiccup.
BUT, if you are already in a low rpm state (say 2.5K rpm) at speed and accelerate in that steady gear until 4-5K'ish rpm... it will super knock and shutdown.

I tell ya man, it's weird as hell.
Wow, fuel fill ups are stored in the DME? Never knew that. How do you check that? I’ve been using 92 octane since I bought the car brand new, but would love to know if the DME “thinks” it’s 92 like I’ve been seeing on the gas pumps. Thanks!
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      07-28-2020, 11:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
Whatever happened with your car? Any updates?
Sorry been away due to general life upheaval due to coronavirus.

Definitely owe it to anyone that was tracking this with me, and perhaps someone that might encounter a similar issue in the future.

The problem was.... a faulty crankshaft sensor!

Long story short, the first shop I took it to was either incompetent or simply missguided. I stop short at accusing them of trying to steal my money, but my wife certainly feels that way.
I had it towed to a BMW dealership and they had it fixed within a couple of days. The service advisor took a look at everything I have showed you guys in this thread, and knew the first thing to try right away.

The busted spark plug and the piston float scenario are all now just mysterious and suspect. I still don't have a definitive answer for how or why those occured. Some here suspected a faulty plug install... and maybe with the detonation from the crankshaft losing synchronization it was just a perfect storm.

Either way, it is fixed now and my F31 is back on the road "strong like bull".
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      07-28-2020, 11:45 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesmeister View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IraHayes View Post
Whatever happened with your car? Any updates?
Sorry been away due to general life upheaval due to coronavirus.

Definitely owe it to anyone that was tracking this with me, and perhaps someone that might encounter a similar issue in the future.

The problem was.... a faulty crankshaft sensor!

Long story short, the first shop I took it to was either incompetent or simply missguided. I stop short at accusing them of trying to steal my money, but my wife certainly feels that way.
I had it towed to a BMW dealership and they had it fixed within a couple of days. The service advisor took a look at everything I have showed you guys in this thread, and knew the first thing to try right away.

The busted spark plug and the piston float scenario are all now just mysterious and suspect. I still don't have a definitive answer for how or why those occured. Some here suspected a faulty plug install... and maybe with the detonation from the crankshaft losing synchronization it was just a perfect storm.

Either way, it is fixed now and my F31 is back on the road "strong like bull".
bimmerphd has a few reviews of people getting ripped off.. they left me an air freshner with the company logo in my cars window at work, looked up the reviews and decided not to go their route.. iirc they ripped off some dude that was stranded and dealing with his daughters funeral, which was pretty f'd up..
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      07-28-2020, 12:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamerJoe View Post
bimmerphd has a few reviews of people getting ripped off.. they left me an air freshner with the company logo in my cars window at work, looked up the reviews and decided not to go their route.. iirc they ripped off some dude that was stranded and dealing with his daughters funeral, which was pretty f'd up..
Whoa! I went off of a recommendation from my barber. lol
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      07-30-2020, 07:15 AM   #39
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Wow. Hope you got reimbursed for all the bull. I would drive the car to them. Show them it is fixed and how, they really need to understand the magnitude of what they were advising and how completely misguided it was
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