[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Bav@Heart

I have all those as well. Mine is making a loud squealing noise for the first 30 second on cold starts. After that it quiets down, but i can sort of hear the same noise when accelerating lightly. As the car warms up more, I kind of hear it less, but it never truely goes away.

I took the car in and after a month and a visit from some special BMW mechanic, they decided it was the turbo making the noise so they replaced it, but noise was exactly the same the next day they gave it back to me. Even though, the shop foreman concluded the noise was no longer there.

I'm still waiting for a call back from service advisor to schedule the car to come back in.

Did they fix it? i had the same on the 335i M Performance and google revealed a known rattle problem in 2014. A PUMA case indicated an HVAC tube loosening and banging under acceleration. i had to play a recording but they agreed to open it and found it. No issue with the proper repair in place. Obviously, the Canadian service center had never heard of the issue until i quoted them the PUMA case number.

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by AW F30

Cylinder 1 misfire which lead to damage on the cylinder wall. The snakes at BMW NA dug through all of my personal belongings under the trunk lining and found a Dinan tune that I bought a while back. They used this against me and denied my warranty. Best part is, they wanted me to cough up $20,000. They also blamed the blown engine on FDL coding, I guess I should've thought about the fact that folding mirrors could have the potential to blow my engine.

In addition, they preformed a compression test, bore scope, and leak down test over the span of a month and they did not want to provide me with any of their results or a conclusion. The friendly folks at BMWNA (Dewey, to be specific) were not mechanically inclined to give me any specifics either.

BMW has really gone to shit with their trash customer relations and defective engines (18k miles). After referring BMWs to at least 15 of my friends and family members, I deeply regret it.

Am beginning to suspect the B58TU1 update, very early update (2 years) reinforcing cylinder walls was not coincidental. Did they resolve your issue?

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by MassNerd

Source was automotive journalists at the recent Supra press event in Texas asking about reliability and getting the answer about teardowns.

Toyota Supra is rated for 335hp, (crank vs wheel is still low) a shockingly low figure. Head Supra engineer told Doug DeMuro that more left for tuning. Given the lengthy post entries here, makes sense why Toyota did not even match the Z4. Toyota cannot design a 6 cylinder for squat, but could probably tell that it may have some issues under load.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Musashi

Toyota Supra is rated for 335hp, (crank vs wheel is still low) a shockingly low figure. Head Supra engineer told Doug DeMuro that more left for tuning. Given the lengthy post entries here, makes sense why Toyota did not even match the Z4. Toyota cannot design a 6 cylinder for squat, but could probably tell that it may have some issues under load.

So they can sell the TRD package for $3000 so you can have 50 more horsepower along with a bigger spoiler and exhaust. Maybe they will sell TRD big brembo brake kit and LSD which will be identical to the M versions as well.

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

So they can sell the TRD package for $3000 so you can have 50 more horsepower along with a bigger spoiler and exhaust. Maybe they will sell TRD big brembo brake kit and LSD which will be identical to the M versions as well.

The Z4 has the M-performance LSD stock.

The rest though, yeah, I could see them selling a TRD kit to unlock some of that HP.... but the new M340i has nearly the same power as the Z4, and there's traditionally been MPPKs on the BMW side, so there may yet be another 30 HP in there already... imagine a Z4 or M340i making over 400 with full warranty?

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by Araemo

The Z4 has the M-performance LSD stock.

The rest though, yeah, I could see them selling a TRD kit to unlock some of that HP.... but the new M340i has nearly the same power as the Z4, and there's traditionally been MPPKs on the BMW side, so there may yet be another 30 HP in there already... imagine a Z4 or M340i making over 400 with full warranty?

All this does is explain the Supra delay, coinciding- strangely with the TU1 B58 update. Although called a technical update 1, it might as well be designated a new engine.The structural, metallurgical and architecture modifications pretty much relegate the original B58 to the unreliable, overpowered, over-boosted, likely to fail category. Just wall thickness increase and change to forged pistons tells you a lot. People forget that thermodynamic stresses from 300 to 340 are not the same as those from 340 to 374. The numbers increase exponentially and hence the high cost of integrity maintaining tunes. At 400 lots of things come in play, not the 'east tier 1 racing grade Mitsubishi Turbos.

a rare occurence with BMW, N55 never had such issues but, then again, it did not jump hp/torque as much as B58 dared do. Tells me Munich rushed to catch up to Merc and Audi while also catching up with their unreliability.

the hardest think to do, engineering wise, is to increase both power and reliability, and nearly impossibly to do so while maintaining cost. 40 Hp is over 10 percent increase vs the N55.

Seen in West Africa million km e3x naturally aspirated classics. The band and timing ensured that clutch could break first but rarely, if ever the engine. On these new engines a lot can fail fast before the AT or MT fails. BMW be ashamed to ever attempt catching up with Merc. The AMG reliability problems under load, even on the S class, is horrendous. Its as if BMW designed the B58 thinking "we got to catch up Mb in sales, lets give numbers, not even 1 percent of owners will tap 90 percent power, therefore acceptable risk = z ", part by part. Life cycle management? z+y+n= expected longevity.

sure enough, they are moving to racing grade forged pistons with the TU1. The cost of warranty B58 must be higher than the program managers anticipated. i would rather have a reliable N55 than an over booosted one, esp the B58. Been watching these engine issues grow, and shop head techs quietly confirmed them as well in Canada. why it matters? because 6 months it is too cold to even try Sports+, except in British Columbia. The cold exposed numerous belt and chain issues, and cylinder as well (contraction too high). -30, -40C exposed this.. anything but 0W40 Liqui or Shell or Motul virtually guarantees a short engine life vs the prev gens. You get less thermal issues but more friction types.

either case TU1, a new engine IMO, addresses the original 360-380 hp hasty design sin...

Present'y am waiting for the TU1 for my next car, AND will likely buy the 6-7 year warranty. And will only run 0w40 Motul or Liqui Molly.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Araemo

The Z4 has the M-performance LSD stock.

The rest though, yeah, I could see them selling a TRD kit to unlock some of that HP.... but the new M340i has nearly the same power as the Z4, and there's traditionally been MPPKs on the BMW side, so there may yet be another 30 HP in there already... imagine a Z4 or M340i making over 400 with full warranty?

Not sure if Supra gets the LSD or if it's some electronic brake diff so a real one would be better.

[madmortar]

When is the TU1 B58 update? Where can i read more about this and the changes BMW is doing and why?

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Not sure if Supra gets the LSD or if it's some electronic brake diff so a real one would be better.

6-cyl supra gets the M sport diff. 4-cyl does not get it standard (though some sources say it will be a package/accessory option)

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Araemo

6-cyl supra gets the M sport diff. 4-cyl does not get it standard (though some sources say it will be a package/accessory option)

Ok but Supra only has B58 so I assume you mean Z4.

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Ok but Supra only has B58 so I assume you mean Z4.

Are you sure? Even overseas? Just because Toyota US only offers the b58 (currently) doesn't mean that's the case in every country. I was reading/watching supra coverage, not Z4 coverage for that fact.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Araemo

Are you sure? Even overseas? Just because Toyota US only offers the b58 (currently) doesn't mean that's the case in every country. I was reading/watching supra coverage, not Z4 coverage for that fact.

Surprised they would do that. Though I guess that is like the modern equivalent of the NA 6 in the mark IV. I would have rather they used the engine from the Lexus RCF

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by madmortar

When is the TU1 B58 update? Where can i read more about this and the changes BMW is doing and why?

It is being rolled out quietly, as we speak, in select 2020 models. Googling B58TU1 will reveal some sources, though not the German ones. It is indeed a corrected block design for the 380+Hp, including resolving stupid things like chain and belt unreliability (a previous 300$ job now involving full engine removal).

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/b...ps-129912.html

https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/31/b...88-horsepower/

these changes tell me that, considering the lengthy recall lists (just 100 recalls = millions $) BMW engineers in Munich scrambled realizing that the common sense worse scenario issues turned out the norm. Shredded turbos, fail chain, fail piston, fail bearings, fail cylinder all = full engine replacement. Each time BMW lovers floored it, they proved the cautionary folks right, and engineers wrong. They got power right, but not life cycle management (hey even Ferrari missed that this year in F1). The idea of reversing the chain and belt location to bring vibration to center of car mass, as well as - stupidly- keep it cleaner, turned out hubris as any troubleshooting now involved hoisting the engine. Solution? redesign that with 30 less moving parts in TU1.

as if not enough, thermal issues plagued the engine deck, and even the less powerful N55 got hot enough to warm up overnight my garage at 0 Celsius. Solution? redesign the deck, crankshaft bearings AND pistons and cylinders, metallurgically better alloys, thicker walls in critical punch hole location (is it Honda in F1?) and thermal improvements with smarter cooling per stroke. suddenly, the engine can handle 350 bar...

when did they actually do that for the N54 and N55? it has not happened actually. The B58 release coincided with MB swooping by BMW, Audi as well surpassing it in sales, etc. Cause and effect.

either case , those that tuned up the B58 rapidly discovered issues that were almost unheard off on the prev gens. Smooth as butter, fast, but piss poor reliable.

Hopefully BMW extends warranty to ALL B58 owners, not the least due to stringent EU and German consumer protection laws. But i have a feeling that they will do swaps quietly and they are trying to release the TU1 quietly as to not reveal the original B58 as a 2 year wonder...

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by Musashi

It is being rolled out quietly, as we speak, in select 2020 models. Googling B58TU1 will reveal some sources, though not the German ones. It is indeed a corrected block design for the 380+Hp, including resolving stupid things like chain and belt unreliability (a previous 300$ job now involving full engine removal).

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/b...ps-129912.html

https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/31/b...88-horsepower/

these changes tell me that, considering the lengthy recall lists (just 100 recalls = millions $) BMW engineers in Munich scrambled realizing that the common sense worse scenario issues turned out the norm. Shredded turbos, fail chain, fail piston, fail bearings, fail cylinder all = full engine replacement. Each time BMW lovers floored it, they proved the cautionary folks right, and engineers wrong. They got power right, but not life cycle management (hey even Ferrari missed that this year in F1). The idea of reversing the chain and belt location to bring vibration to center of car mass, as well as - stupidly- keep it cleaner, turned out hubris as any troubleshooting now involved hoisting the engine. Solution? redesign that with 30 less moving parts in TU1.

as if not enough, thermal issues plagued the engine deck, and even the less powerful N55 got hot enough to warm up overnight my garage at 0 Celsius. Solution? redesign the deck, crankshaft bearings AND pistons and cylinders, metallurgically better alloys, thicker walls in critical punch hole location (is it Honda in F1?) and thermal improvements with smarter cooling per stroke. suddenly, the engine can handle 350 bar...

when did they actually do that for the N54 and N55? it has not happened actually. The B58 release coincided with MB swooping by BMW, Audi as well surpassing it in sales, etc. Cause and effect.

either case , those that tuned up the B58 rapidly discovered issues that were almost unheard off on the prev gens. Smooth as butter, fast, but piss poor reliable.

Hopefully BMW extends warranty to ALL B58 owners, not the least due to stringent EU and German consumer protection laws. But i have a feeling that they will do swaps quietly and they are trying to release the TU1 quietly as to not reveal the original B58 as a 2 year wonder...

The B58 has been a reliable motor thus far, even for those of us running tunes. I have no fear of running my motor in its tuned state. The turbo may give out a bit sooner, replace clutch faster, spark plugs, etc. But I don't think I'm going to send a rod through my block. The timing chain job does not require the engine to be removed. BMW makes special tools to fix the VANOS actuators and other timing components.

[Araemo]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

The timing chain job does not require the engine to be removed.

You sure about that? How in the world would they do the timing chain without removing it? I know the dealerships have methods of lowering the engine out the bottom relatively easily, but it still must be removed.. and that makes it much more expensive or just not doable by non-BMW-specialty shops.

[madmortar]

Originally Posted by Musashi

It is being rolled out quietly, as we speak, in select 2020 models. Googling B58TU1 will reveal some sources, though not the German ones. It is indeed a corrected block design for the 380+Hp, including resolving stupid things like chain and belt unreliability (a previous 300$ job now involving full engine removal).

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/b...ps-129912.html

https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/31/b...88-horsepower/

these changes tell me that, considering the lengthy recall lists (just 100 recalls = millions $) BMW engineers in Munich scrambled realizing that the common sense worse scenario issues turned out the norm. Shredded turbos, fail chain, fail piston, fail bearings, fail cylinder all = full engine replacement. Each time BMW lovers floored it, they proved the cautionary folks right, and engineers wrong. They got power right, but not life cycle management (hey even Ferrari missed that this year in F1). The idea of reversing the chain and belt location to bring vibration to center of car mass, as well as - stupidly- keep it cleaner, turned out hubris as any troubleshooting now involved hoisting the engine. Solution? redesign that with 30 less moving parts in TU1.

as if not enough, thermal issues plagued the engine deck, and even the less powerful N55 got hot enough to warm up overnight my garage at 0 Celsius. Solution? redesign the deck, crankshaft bearings AND pistons and cylinders, metallurgically better alloys, thicker walls in critical punch hole location (is it Honda in F1?) and thermal improvements with smarter cooling per stroke. suddenly, the engine can handle 350 bar...

when did they actually do that for the N54 and N55? it has not happened actually. The B58 release coincided with MB swooping by BMW, Audi as well surpassing it in sales, etc. Cause and effect.

either case , those that tuned up the B58 rapidly discovered issues that were almost unheard off on the prev gens. Smooth as butter, fast, but piss poor reliable.

Hopefully BMW extends warranty to ALL B58 owners, not the least due to stringent EU and German consumer protection laws. But i have a feeling that they will do swaps quietly and they are trying to release the TU1 quietly as to not reveal the original B58 as a 2 year wonder...

Sounds like pre-2020 B58 are to be stayed away from...
Why cant auto makers design a chain that actually lasts and doesnt fail!
So seems like maybe 2015/2016 N55 might be more reliable vs. 2017/2018/2019 B58?

[VVlasy]

Does anyone actually have some valid service intervals for B58, for example the aforementioned timing chain?

As said a post above, the engine does not need to be removed to service the timing chain. Just a rumor that spread when B58 was announced and the changes unveiled.

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by VVlasy

Does anyone actually have some valid service intervals for B58, for example the aforementioned timing chain?

As said a post above, the engine does not need to be removed to service the timing chain. Just a rumor that spread when B58 was announced and the changes unveiled.

Timing chain is one of those things that's not a problem until it's a problem lol. I'll preemptively do mine around 100k or before if there's no issues. But I'm crazy and might rebuild the engine around that time too.

[B58]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

Timing chain is one of those things that's not a problem until it's a problem lol. I'll preemptively do mine around 100k or before if there's no issues. But I'm crazy and might rebuild the engine around that time too.

B58 vanos and timing is much more advanced then the previous bmw models. I wouldn't worry too much about it and lose sleep over your engine having to come out in the future lol. There are N54's with 150,000 miles that never suffered such an issue with vanos and timing chains. I'm not sure what there is to service a timing chain? I don't recall a chain stretching or snapping like timing belts and I'm sure the chain tensioners are very modern and much more advanced.

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by B58

B58 vanos and timing is much more advanced then the previous bmw models. I wouldn't worry too much about it and lose sleep over your engine having to come out in the future lol. There are N54's with 150,000 miles that never suffered such an issue with vanos and timing chains. I'm not sure what there is to service a timing chain? I don't recall a chain stretching or snapping like timing belts and I'm sure the chain tensioners are very modern and much more advanced.

Mostly VANOS actuators. But then there's also stock N55/S55 with main crank hub issues. It's really just a lottery. So far, it seems the B58 lottery is kinder to the general public than previous motors.

This is also still a fairly new engine. This thread might be more meaningful in 3 years.

[B58]

Originally Posted by G.Newt

Mostly VANOS actuators. But then there's also stock N55/S55 with main crank hub issues. It's really just a lottery. So far, it seems the B58 lottery is kinder to the general public than previous motors.

This is also still a fairly new engine. This thread might be more meaningful in 3 years.

If I'm not mistaken, someone did mention special tools being available for the vanos to service the actuators and the engine not needing to be removed

[G.Newt]

Originally Posted by B58

If I'm not mistaken, someone did mention special tools being available for the vanos to service the actuators and the engine not needing to be removed

Yup.