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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Bootmod3 Stage 2+ E30 octane maps for N55-EWG are now available!
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      01-11-2021, 04:05 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchi435i View Post
E47 for an ots E30 map might be a little aggressive. Try dialing back some and see how it logs. Only makes sense to have a higher Ethanol concentration if your map is designed for it.
Most people on this map are running about E47 which is a 50/50 mix. The fuel trims are quite negative even at that ethanol content %, so going to a lower mix is only going to make them even more negative. If your timing can support it you could go down to around E40, but there's not necessarily a benefit if your E47 doesn't have any issues. I doubt it will affect his boost curves. That could just need some adaptation time if he flashed shortly before the log.

There was some posts above however where someone did need to go to a lower E%, so its worth experimenting with to see what your specific car/setup likes the most.
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      01-12-2021, 07:41 AM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchi435i View Post
E47 for an ots E30 map might be a little aggressive. Try dialing back some and see how it logs. Only makes sense to have a higher Ethanol concentration if your map is designed for it.
i don't see any reason to decrease the e%. his hpfp is keeping up with the "e47" and the STFT is actually pulling back fuel in the high RPMs. if anything.. there's room for MORE ethanol.. though i recommend to keep your mix as it is.

edit: oh, i see you said the same thing above.
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      01-12-2021, 11:00 AM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
i don't see any reason to decrease the e%. his hpfp is keeping up with the "e47" and the STFT is actually pulling back fuel in the high RPMs. if anything.. there's room for MORE ethanol.. though i recommend to keep your mix as it is.

edit: oh, i see you said the same thing above.
There was some confusion earlier about Halim’s comments regarding Emix %.

Every follow up since with me and other folks he’s said what you and Jeremy are saying, there’s room for more ethanol if the HPFP will support it.

And this comment has been given to guys running half 93/half E85 (or E40-47, depending on E85 quality).
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      01-13-2021, 01:11 PM   #268
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sharing my log of running the stage 2+ race gas tune with the following:
m235i rwd 6mt
upgraded clutch (550i clutch)
stock hpfp
WMI at 50/50 (snow nozzle #5)
~91 octane fuel (advertised as 93 octane..)
high flow cat

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ffe...729b6b2524d564

previously on the stock clutch i was running this tune with the 10% boost reduction because of clutch slip.

feedback welcome. wondering if catless dp and/or larger turbo inlet would yield better results. im also considering switching to a chargepipe with 2 smaller nozzles for the wmi to help with timing.
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      01-13-2021, 02:21 PM   #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
sharing my log of running the stage 2+ race gas tune with the following:
m235i rwd 6mt
upgraded clutch (550i clutch)
stock hpfp
WMI at 50/50 (snow nozzle #5)
~91 octane fuel (advertised as 93 octane..)
high flow cat

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5ffe...729b6b2524d564

previously on the stock clutch i was running this tune with the 10% boost reduction because of clutch slip.

feedback welcome. wondering if catless dp and/or larger turbo inlet would yield better results. im also considering switching to a chargepipe with 2 smaller nozzles for the wmi to help with timing.

Looks pretty good overall. you do have a small dip in HPFP pressure at the beginning but nothing major. Cyl 1 also has quite a bit of timing corrections, maybe due to less WMI reaching that cylinder?

What cat are you running? Your boost control doesnt really look worse than people running catless from what i remember, nor does WGDC. A good inlet might save you a few % WGDC.

You also have a throttle closure at the beginning but it looks like its just to get boost under control.

You don't have lambda target in the log so can't say whether or not the fuel trims are having difficulty keeping that under control. As expected you have huge STFT corrections due to the meth.
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      01-14-2021, 03:45 PM   #270
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A bit more meth might help the timing and if hpfp is crashing as you mentioned. 2 nozzles will help with distribution but I wouldn't go smaller than 2 5s for the level of boost this map is running.

I run a single #10 nozzle with 70% meth and 22psi with clean timing.

Last edited by 435gc; 01-15-2021 at 08:40 AM..
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      01-14-2021, 03:50 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
A bit more meth might help the timing and hpfp. 2 nozzles will help with distribution but I wouldn't go smaller than 2 5s for the level of boost you are running.

I run a single #10 nozzle with 70% meth and 22psi with clean timing.
It's really only the #1 cyl that is falling behind the others. Its possible its just the distribution of the meth and less reaching that cyl. Could also be plug/coil related, or just a fluke in that log.

His fuel trims are already very negative and given that other cylinder timing looks good i would be weary of spraying more. The small dip in HPFP isnt enough to worry about, i get those dips occasionally (running E30 on MHD stage 2+ E20 map, stock HPFP), and they arent even enough to impact fuel trims or anything.

I would say get 2 more 4th gear pulls and see what things look like and go from there.
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      01-15-2021, 09:06 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
A bit more meth might help the timing and if hpfp is crashing as you mentioned. 2 nozzles will help with distribution but I wouldn't go smaller than 2 5s for the level of this map is running.

I run a single #10 nozzle with 70% meth and 22psi with clean timing.
i'm torn between going with more meth or more water, however, in my current specific case, winter, where temperatures are quite low, i believe more meth would help quicken the vaporization and thus increase effectiveness of the WMI.

who makes your #10 nozzle? it's hard to compare between brands since they all measure flow at different pressures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
It's really only the #1 cyl that is falling behind the others. Its possible its just the distribution of the meth and less reaching that cyl. Could also be plug/coil related, or just a fluke in that log.

His fuel trims are already very negative and given that other cylinder timing looks good i would be weary of spraying more. The small dip in HPFP isnt enough to worry about, i get those dips occasionally (running E30 on MHD stage 2+ E20 map, stock HPFP), and they arent even enough to impact fuel trims or anything.

I would say get 2 more 4th gear pulls and see what things look like and go from there.
#1 cylinder has been lagging in timing for a while now, so this is not an isolated log. my suspicion is same as yours, that perhaps the mixture is incomplete and cyl 1 is not getting as much love as the other cylinders. this is why i've considering going to 2 smaller nozzles, places further from the TB.

i've tried swapping plugs and coils, no change.

also, i've got 6mt, so i don't do 4th gear pulls haha. 3rd is plenty fast enough.
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      01-15-2021, 12:24 PM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designatedposter View Post
i'm torn between going with more meth or more water, however, in my current specific case, winter, where temperatures are quite low, i believe more meth would help quicken the vaporization and thus increase effectiveness of the WMI.

who makes your #10 nozzle? it's hard to compare between brands since they all measure flow at different pressures.



#1 cylinder has been lagging in timing for a while now, so this is not an isolated log. my suspicion is same as yours, that perhaps the mixture is incomplete and cyl 1 is not getting as much love as the other cylinders. this is why i've considering going to 2 smaller nozzles, places further from the TB.

i've tried swapping plugs and coils, no change.

also, i've got 6mt, so i don't do 4th gear pulls haha. 3rd is plenty fast enough.
Increasing the meth % might help, but would also mean more negative STFTs. Two small nozzles would be a nice experiement as well.

Gotcha, and yeah didn't check what gear was in the logs but 3rd is fine for 6MT.
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      01-16-2021, 11:30 AM   #274
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I use the nozzles from Burger.

Mine is also placed at the distal end of the charge pipe right by the intercooler.

Maybe adding a bit of ethanol might help if adding in more meth to help with negative trims? Or may negate the need for more meth if you are upping the meth just for more octane.

Last edited by 435gc; 01-16-2021 at 11:45 AM..
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      01-16-2021, 03:39 PM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
I use the nozzles from Burger.

Mine is also placed at the distal end of the charge pipe right by the intercooler.

Maybe adding a bit of ethanol might help if adding in more meth to help with negative trims? Or may negate the need for more meth if you are upping the meth just for more octane.
This isnt a bad idea, but he has to be carefuly because hes already at the limit of stock HPFP on a map that should have an upgraded HPFP. Yes, the meth helps with extra fueling, but he already had a dip in his log.
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      01-16-2021, 11:31 PM   #276
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Maybe not the right thread to ask this, but it has been brought up here.

What exactly is the problem with fuel trims being either positive or negative?

I am admittedly ignorant here, but so long as trims aren't pegged at full pos or full neg, does that not mean that the system is working the way it should?

Obviously, to have a set-up with zero outlying numbers is what all type A personalities(bimmer heads) seek. But I wonder if chasing fuel trims with no adaptation is the same as seeking ignition timing that is 100% perfect 100% of the time?

I don't know, seeking knowledge.

Last edited by 435gc; 01-17-2021 at 02:02 AM..
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      01-18-2021, 02:05 PM   #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 435gc View Post
Maybe not the right thread to ask this, but it has been brought up here.

What exactly is the problem with fuel trims being either positive or negative?

I am admittedly ignorant here, but so long as trims aren't pegged at full pos or full neg, does that not mean that the system is working the way it should?

Obviously, to have a set-up with zero outlying numbers is what all type A personalities(bimmer heads) seek. But I wonder if chasing fuel trims with no adaptation is the same as seeking ignition timing that is 100% perfect 100% of the time?

I don't know, seeking knowledge.

There's no problem with fuel trims being positive or negative, and as you alluded to, its completely normal to have some corrections. To be clear, i was in no way implying in the posts above that having fuel corrections is bad or an issue. Generally speaking, I consider less than +/- 10% to be totally reasonable. But, if you are getting more corrections than that while running the fuel called for on your specific tune, it be a sign that you have some sort of underlying issue, so its just something to watch out for. You could have a fuel system issue (HPFP crash, injector problem, etc), a MAF/MAP issue (air flow or boost not read correctly to calculate fuel needed), a O2 sensor issue (AFRs not read correctly), etc, because realsitically the tune shouldnt be that far off that a significant amount of corrections are required. Again, this is assuming you are running the appropriate fuel for your tune - so no extra ethanol, no meth spray, etc. Also, i would be a little bit more worried about highly positive fuel trims than negative ones, because that implies the car is running lean and adding fuel reactively, so there are at least brief periods of time where the car is leaner than it should be (most concerning under WOT/high boost situations).

Going back to his logs as an example, his fuel trims get all the way down to -26%. Again, this isnt a problem in itself assuming the DME can keep the AFRs in check. I forgot what the max trim is (30 or 33% i believe), but hes geting pretty close to that. So spraying more meth (either in overall WMI quantity or meth% with same WMI quantity) might push the trims all the way down to be maxxed in which case the car will not maintain target lambda. A lot of tuners recommend against spraying WMI on a tune that isnt designed for it because the fuel trims are reactive, so in the opposite sense of the example i gave above, there are going to be times when the car is running much richer than it should. How much richer is directly proportional to how negative the fuel trim becomes.

So think about it this way - if you have only small fuel trims, that means the car is running only a little rich or a little lean before the DME can correct. No big deal, right? But, if you have large fuel trims, the car is running a lot more rich or lean before the DME can correct. Hence, larger fuel trims can be a little more concerning, even if having negative or positive trims is not necessarily a "problem".
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      01-20-2021, 11:39 AM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by randyf32 View Post
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fc7...0b4347cd5fdb0d

not sure if this 2+ log can help for some info but almost no correction and 13 degrees up top
Yeah, another example of the timing and STFTs i was referring to as more typical for this tune. Also, that upgraded turbo is doing work, WGDC is only about 80%!
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6004...90c656f5acc7af

How's this looking my guy?

This was the third of three back to back to back logs.

Timing gets a lot better due to lower IATs. Also, now that i have the ethanol sensor installed and finding my 93 is E10, im almost certain my E% the last time around was way higher than E30 and still the log looked pretty bad. Must have been the heat soak.

Its a third gear i know, but i had been doing 3rd gears all day for Carey and it just slipped my mind.

Edit: The mix was E30
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      01-20-2021, 12:43 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAKH 5 View Post
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=6004...90c656f5acc7af

How's this looking my guy?

This was the third of three back to back to back logs.

Timing gets a lot better due to lower IATs. Also, now that i have the ethanol sensor installed and finding my 93 is E10, im almost certain my E% the last time around was way higher than E30 and still the log looked pretty bad. Must have been the heat soak.

Its a third gear i know, but i had been doing 3rd gears all day for Carey and it just slipped my mind.

Edit: The mix was E30
This looks pretty good overall. You do seem to be a little more below boost target than most the other logs, but i suspect thats because this is 3rd and you have less load than being in 4th. The timing is clean up until 6k but then you get a bunch of corrections even before the shift to 4th. I would try E35 or maybe E40 and see. The timing doesn't really recover for the brief time you are WOT in 4th, either.

I am assuming you have a HPFP? You have a small dip in HPFP pretty but nothing significant, just a little more than usual for those running an upgraded HPFP. You also have a throttle closure at the beginning of the pull when you start to overboost too much. I wouldnt worry about those last 3 things. WGDC looks where it should be.
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      01-20-2021, 07:23 PM   #280
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Hey guys, designatedposter spotted some updates to the OTS maps today. It looks like a global update that includes:

-Improved drivability
-6MT gearshift load drop fix
-Changes to AFR at redline
-Load changes at high IAT

While this should make the 6MT guys happy, this sounds like a proactive way to address stock turbo/IAT concerns about the upcoming Stg 2+ 93 OTS, not to mention all the other OTS maps for anyone without adequate IAT control.
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      01-20-2021, 07:50 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
This looks pretty good overall. You do seem to be a little more below boost target than most the other logs, but i suspect thats because this is 3rd and you have less load than being in 4th. The timing is clean up until 6k but then you get a bunch of corrections even before the shift to 4th. I would try E35 or maybe E40 and see. The timing doesn't really recover for the brief time you are WOT in 4th, either.

I am assuming you have a HPFP? You have a small dip in HPFP pretty but nothing significant, just a little more than usual for those running an upgraded HPFP. You also have a throttle closure at the beginning of the pull when you start to overboost too much. I wouldnt worry about those last 3 things. WGDC looks where it should be.
Yup. Running an XDI-35. Also got rid of the crappy turner motorsports intercooler
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      01-20-2021, 08:11 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Hey guys, designatedposter spotted some updates to the OTS maps today. It looks like a global update that includes:

-Improved drivability
-6MT gearshift load drop fix
-Changes to AFR at redline
-Load changes at high IAT

While this should make the 6MT guys happy, this sounds like a proactive way to address stock turbo/IAT concerns about the upcoming Stg 2+ 93 OTS, not to mention all the other OTS maps for anyone without adequate IAT control.
I don't see these changes in the map section... Still version 7.1 for Stage 2 E30 map?
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      01-20-2021, 08:20 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx View Post
I don't see these changes in the map section... Still version 7.1 for Stage 2 E30 map?
Interesting. Well, we see it in the M2 OTS maps, so maybe it's coming soon to you guys.
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      01-20-2021, 08:23 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx View Post
I don't see these changes in the map section... Still version 7.1 for Stage 2 E30 map?
Interesting. Well, we see it in the M2 OTS maps, so maybe it's coming soon to you guys.
It's weird because they say "released 2021-01-19" but the maps haven't changed.
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      01-20-2021, 09:49 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM2 View Post
Hey guys, designatedposter spotted some updates to the OTS maps today. It looks like a global update that includes:

-Improved drivability
-6MT gearshift load drop fix
-Changes to AFR at redline
-Load changes at high IAT

While this should make the 6MT guys happy, this sounds like a proactive way to address stock turbo/IAT concerns about the upcoming Stg 2+ 93 OTS, not to mention all the other OTS maps for anyone without adequate IAT control.
The optimization for us 6mt folks is very exciting! I still don't see the changes yet. M235i n55 ewg.

Please give us first impressions of the updates
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      01-21-2021, 10:54 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Most people on this map are running about E47 which is a 50/50 mix. The fuel trims are quite negative even at that ethanol content %, so going to a lower mix is only going to make them even more negative. If your timing can support it you could go down to around E40, but there's not necessarily a benefit if your E47 doesn't have any issues. I doubt it will affect his boost curves. That could just need some adaptation time if he flashed shortly before the log.

There was some posts above however where someone did need to go to a lower E%, so its worth experimenting with to see what your specific car/setup likes the most.
Just got my Stage 2 Dorch installed from SSR, I had them flash me to E30+ while they were in my BM3. Haven't had the chance to run logs yet...I'm currently at a E27 (from running the regular e30 map) mix and started reading up on all this talk about an E47 mix? Is that the recommended mix for the E30+ OTS? Wondering if I should dial back down to STG 2 E30 until I'm at an empty tank and go straight to an E47 blend and flash to E30+ to be safe?

Still running my stock turbo.
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