[DesertSmokeBBQ]

Originally Posted by RedlinePSI

Was there a different KBB quote for private sale? Dealers usually do not use Blue Book, it's generally known as a private sale reference. Dealers are more likely to use Black Book.

Dealers use Blue Book. The difference is they and banks use wholesale blue book. The consumer version takes condition into account while wholesale is straight numbers and the appraiser decides what costs they might incur to recondition and sell the unit plus local market conditions. For example: convertibles are worth less in Minnesota in December than they are in San Diego regardless of what the Blue/Black Book or Edmunds says because there is little demand for them.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Jparker82

Sounds like you had a clean old car and yes a well taken care of car will bring more money. A good clean retail piece I also good for a secondary market. There is always a lot less risk involved on older cars.

So is a 2-3 year old car more risky than a 10-15 year old car for the dealer? My impression is the newer car is still under warranty and less likely to have problems than the older car(which may incur new problems while still on the lot), but I guess the newer car is more expensive to acquire than the older one dollar wise, so the risk is higher.

[RedlinePSI]

Originally Posted by DesertSmokeBBQ

Dealers use Blue Book. The difference is they and banks use wholesale blue book. The consumer version takes condition into account while wholesale is straight numbers and the appraiser decides what costs they might incur to recondition and sell the unit plus local market conditions. For example: convertibles are worth less in Minnesota in December than they are in San Diego regardless of what the Blue/Black Book or Edmunds says because there is little demand for them.

Who does this appraiser work for? It sounds like another way of saying they take the full market value and decide on their own how much they want to bullshit people? haha I don't doubt that some do use Blue, and have various ways of coming up with a final price. I've just heard directly from at least 3 or 4 different dealers, all selling different make cars including a BMW dealer, that they use Black Book, so I figured that was basically the go to for most dealers to get a starting point.

I think the take away from all this is you should not rely on any 1 resource to find the value of your car. Get an average from investigating multiple sources and you will have a good idea, and can best know if you've got a guy trying to totally rape your wallet. If you get lazy on the homework with something like this there is a better chance you will get ripped off.

[Jparker82]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

So is a 2-3 year old car more risky than a 10-15 year old car for the dealer? My impression is the newer car is still under warranty and less likely to have problems than the older car(which may incur new problems while still on the lot), but I guess the newer car is more expensive to acquire than the older one dollar wise, so the risk is higher.

It's always about the risk of loss. If a unit ages on the lot it can cost the dealer thousands. Older cars carry little to no risk. The rate of depreciation is really nothing.

Don't think that the dealers don't spend money on newer cars. Used car deptaprtments tend to get rapped by the service dept. Trust me the used car dept is the biggest customer of service.

If people are curious about how or why, it's all about used car trends. Auction reports give the best example of this. Certain types of vehicles can actually go up in value. 4x4 shift upwards in winter. Hybrids are about dead right now. Even with the current has prices.

My best advice is to take average KBB and do not put any adds on. This should be close to wholesale value. Nothing is ever excellent unless it's a 3 yr old car with 8k on it. But just remember most dealers now have to hold back on trade values to make money. To much info on the net to make a profit on a new car.

Also there is a chance that you just flat out run into someone try to smack you with a huge profit and steal your trade. It does seem to me that BMW dealers to hold back a bit because of used car certification and recon can average about 3k per unit. Hard for them to make money with that initial cost.

Like I have stated on here before. Best way to get the most for your car is to lie. Tell them that you owe 10k more than you do. It will make the used car manager step up to do a deal. Trust me it works.

Have the balls to walk out of the dealer. Leave your emotions at the door. Remember it's is true the end of the month matters huge. Dealer could have $50-100k riding on a few deals. Stair step retro bonus from manufacturer.

And there is no such thing as a blue book. Tool of the 70s. It's black book and now Mannheim. Just KBB online and no dealer really uses it. Only when they need a good number for bank. LOL.

Hope info helps someone shopping.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Jparker82

It's always about the risk of loss. If a unit ages on the lot it can cost the dealer thousands. Older cars carry little to no risk. The rate of depreciation is really nothing.

Don't think that the dealers don't spend money on newer cars. Used car deptaprtments tend to get rapped by the service dept. Trust me the used car dept is the biggest customer of service.

If people are curious about how or why, it's all about used car trends. Auction reports give the best example of this. Certain types of vehicles can actually go up in value. 4x4 shift upwards in winter. Hybrids are about dead right now. Even with the current has prices.

My best advice is to take average KBB and do not put any adds on. This should be close to wholesale value. Nothing is ever excellent unless it's a 3 yr old car with 8k on it. But just remember most dealers now have to hold back on trade values to make money. To much info on the net to make a profit on a new car.

Also there is a chance that you just flat out run into someone try to smack you with a huge profit and steal your trade. It does seem to me that BMW dealers to hold back a bit because of used car certification and recon can average about 3k per unit. Hard for them to make money with that initial cost.

Like I have stated on here before. Best way to get the most for your car is to lie. Tell them that you owe 10k more than you do. It will make the used car manager step up to do a deal. Trust me it works.

Have the balls to walk out of the dealer. Leave your emotions at the door. Remember it's is true the end of the month matters huge. Dealer could have $50-100k riding on a few deals. Stair step retro bonus from manufacturer.

And there is no such thing as a blue book. Tool of the 70s. It's black book and now Mannheim. Just KBB online and no dealer really uses it. Only when they need a good number for bank. LOL.

Hope info helps someone shopping.

Great advice, thanks for sharing.

[DesertSmokeBBQ]

Originally Posted by RedlinePSI

Who does this appraiser work for? It sounds like another way of saying they take the full market value and decide on their own how much they want to bullshit people? haha I don't doubt that some do use Blue, and have various ways of coming up with a final price. I've just heard directly from at least 3 or 4 different dealers, all selling different make cars including a BMW dealer, that they use Black Book, so I figured that was basically the go to for most dealers to get a starting point.

I think the take away from all this is you should not rely on any 1 resource to find the value of your car. Get an average from investigating multiple sources and you will have a good idea, and can best know if you've got a guy trying to totally rape your wallet. If you get lazy on the homework with something like this there is a better chance you will get ripped off.

The appraiser is whomever is buying the car and if its a dealer there are certain things he's looking for that he MUST do by law which varies from state to state and then there are the dealers standards as well for instance, in AZ brake pads are required to be 30% minimum by law to be considered safe for resale but most of the dealers I worked for would do brakes if they were less than 50% so when I appraised cars I'd look at the pads for signs of wear and deduct what it was going to cost me to do brakes if it was less. If there were lots of chips in the glass I'd deduct for a new windshield (or ANY cracks), why because when I tried to sell it the prospective buyer always wanted it fixed anyway so either way I was going to end up doing it so I deducted it from trade value. In addition to the obvious stuff there is standard safety inspection which costs a couple hundred and if the car was certifiable I HAD to certify it which for BMW cost me $700 on a 3er if NOTHING needed to be done to it. Guess where that got deducted? This is why you can get more private party, the owner has ZERO obligation to recondition a vehicle not make a profit beyond the purchase price