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      02-11-2014, 10:30 PM   #45
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      02-11-2014, 11:02 PM   #46
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Love the extra interior leather details, but I don't get the whole gran coupe thing.
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      02-11-2014, 11:07 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joewalton View Post
If you want a Ford, buy a Ford.
I have owned more new BMW's than I can count on TWO hands, including a 328 sport, a 328 vert, a 330 coupe, 528 sport, a 540 sport stick, a 530 sport stick (by far the best car I owned) a 545 sport stick, a 550 sport stick, an '08 M3 stick, two X5's.. the first one and a '12 M-sport, and a '13 335 m-sport vert
ALL of these cars were purchased NEW, and ALL of them have been heavily optioned with all of the attributes that I felt made each car special. My current X5 has the best stereo, all the handling packages, comfort seats, Nappa leather, nappa leather dash..... everything.

BMW not only has lost its way, but it has begun to build cars for Mercedes and Lexis customers to gain sales... and it is working. BMW's lease very well because they residualize very well... making them affordable. So they have found they can sell basic cars to the masses, and charge those that want and can afford a nicely optioned car an additional 20K for things that should be standard. Regular black paint an "individual" color? Really? they are insulting your intelligence. Further, count the 5 series I've owned. The current car is such a departure I would not ever consider it.

The new M3 options out as a very expensive 3 series. I won't go buy a Ford (although the new Mustang looks really nice), but I will definitely consider a Porsche.
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      02-12-2014, 01:12 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
I have owned more new BMW's than I can count on TWO hands, including a 328 sport, a 328 vert, a 330 coupe, 528 sport, a 540 sport stick, a 530 sport stick (by far the best car I owned) a 545 sport stick, a 550 sport stick, an '08 M3 stick, two X5's.. the first one and a '12 M-sport, and a '13 335 m-sport vert
ALL of these cars were purchased NEW, and ALL of them have been heavily optioned with all of the attributes that I felt made each car special. My current X5 has the best stereo, all the handling packages, comfort seats, Nappa leather, nappa leather dash..... everything.

BMW not only has lost its way, but it has begun to build cars for Mercedes and Lexis customers to gain sales... and it is working. BMW's lease very well because they residualize very well... making them affordable. So they have found they can sell basic cars to the masses, and charge those that want and can afford a nicely optioned car an additional 20K for things that should be standard. Regular black paint an "individual" color? Really? they are insulting your intelligence. Further, count the 5 series I've owned. The current car is such a departure I would not ever consider it.

The new M3 options out as a very expensive 3 series. I won't go buy a Ford (although the new Mustang looks really nice), but I will definitely consider a Porsche.
Three things:

You have owned and driven some of the most niche vehicles in BMW's history yet you condemn the 4 Gran Coupe. BMW has suddenly "lost its way"? How about BMW is merely creating more niche vehicles, just a few that you don't find agreeable.

BMW's are luxury cars and luxury cars cost money. I'm sorry that the sport suspension you used to get at no charge costs money now. It sure looks like you have no problem in affording it. So pay up like you always have and quit your whining.

BMW has just begun building cars to compete with Lexus and Mercedes Benz? LOL. That's rich.
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      02-12-2014, 05:26 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Which of these interior/exterior Individual options will be available with M-sport?
Everything is available via Individual if you just pay. That's the whole point...
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      02-12-2014, 09:52 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
rrent car is such a departure I would not ever consider it.

The new M3 options out as a very expensive 3 series.
Is this some new breakthrough concept that I have missed?
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      02-12-2014, 10:19 AM   #51
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Loving it!!
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      02-12-2014, 09:40 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawgone
Enough people like the looks of gran coupes that it makes financial sense for BMW to develop an offering. It does nothing to dilute the 3er so what's the big deal?
it's not about making financial sense
the z4 sells in very low quantities and has a much lower profit margin than the Audi R8, it doesn't lead its' class in anyway
yet bmw continues to make it.

but we've heard the line from BMW that they won't make an R8 competitor because it doesn't make financial sense
to I think its time they hire some new financial analysts

What an provoking and incorrect statement.
It's not about financial sense it is about priorities. BMW have spent the last 10 years in conceiving technology , advances in manufacturing , sustainable mobility , tackling emissions legislation and focusing on segments that symbolise growth. Other manufactures done the opposite now they are catching up but in that time they extended their priorities in favour of 15 minute vanity projects.
Now their limits have come apparent.

One Supercar project = resources for the above. As an Independent company BMW AG have to be profitable. Building such a car back then would not be profitable for the company. But in BMWs defense they did not need a halo car for this purpose as the BMW brand is strong to support a globally popular brand image in lieu of a super sports car.

BMWs expertise and intelligence has led us to the Carbon Age where the impossible has come the possible for BMW. Its highly beneficial strategy has not only brought BMWi , but new methods of manufacturing , cost effective use of CFRP far ahead of our competitors at cost for use. A new generation of BMWs await utilising CFRP from the ground breaking BMW i3 in their construction and new partnerships with other manufacturers and industries to reap the development costs.

BMW is the world most innovative manufacture at this time , Audi/ VW are behind Hyundai/Kia. That is sticking to your priorities and as a business provide dividend for our shareholders and future product plans.
1 Supercar could not do all of that.

But BMW have finally brought their interpretation of a sports car. Its a sports car of the future. And a very possible future. It's called the most progressive sports car because it embodies the attributes of a sports car but combines with sustainable mobility. Its the revolutionary BMW i8 and you will soon see how this car is revolutionary because it dares to be different , it completely embodies BMWs philosophy as it does when implementing exciting new concepts.

As it stands the compact and sub-compact segment is where current and future growth lies BMW has to downsize as well as upsize.
And to remain Independent BMW have to be competitive in each respective segment.

Also with SUVs - BMW X models are globally the best selling premium SUV models it is only right that the company continues to dominate this segment which is why more SUVs or SAVs are coming.
In the global market , the best selling models for any manufacturer are SUVs and crossovers.

But everyone will have more as markets downsize and upsize for high performance concepts.

The same strategy that exists for BMWi Will be mirrored with BMW M. With not only stand alone concepts. But in engineering , design and development.

Thanks to the utilisation of material technology at a significant lower cost. BMW can be excessive with CFRP because they are producing it for volume. Other manufacturers are not therefore their costs are higher.

One such project aims to combine high performance and Eco technology with lightweight materials in a car that will be more than a fraction of the cost of today's cars with similar specifications.
Specifications and ideas are currently being thrown in all directions from all departments involved. It's to celebrate a very special anniversary in 2016 but to look at the future.
The i8 will be three years old at this point.

To suggest BMW does not have the engineering know how is an insult to their skills and intelligence. It's not just going to be like a re bodied Gallardo.



spinning models off the same platform makes sense, of course
but you have to put a little bit of effort into it.

BMW does put a lot of effort into the engineering. The central piece is modular but mounts and firewalls are placed in regards to what model it is whether a Coupe , Sedan or SAV.

making a 4 door version of the coupe has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever to come out of BMW, right after hiring chris bangle.

Why do many insist in blaming the fictional problems at Chris Bangles door.
Chris Bangle was a visionary that brought modernity and fresh thinking to BMW and he should be applauded because the vehicles styled under his supervision not only dethroned Mercedes-Benz for the no 1. Premium manufacturer. But his ideas and visioned opens up car design to discussions that compared architecture etc. Also Bangle can accept criticism. I can tell you about designers who have fled at the slightest opportunity of "well that does not work".

Besides the cars Bangle gets criticised about were designed by the current BMW chef of design, hardly a reward for failure.

why not call it a 3 series grand coupe?

How many times must this be mentioned. The 4er is lower and much wider than the 3er. Your clearest evidence is the M3s rear arches that have been extended to accommodate the wider track. Whilst the M4 has a slight width increase.
I guess the fact that I'm not paid by BMW
Nor am I fed the marketing BS on a daily basis
Makes my opinion vastly different to yours

Most of what you said looks like it was copy and pasted from a brochure
And contrary to what you think
Marketing, without good products, doesn't sell cars
No matter how many m badges you stick on the car

And yes I blame Chris bangle for some of the ugliest cars BMW has ever made
You may think he was pushing the envelope
But the E60, the 6 series, and the 7 series he created are by far the ugliest cars BMW has ever produced.

From someone who has owned 5 BMWs in the past 6 years
There isn't a single model they make now that I see as exciting
New 3/4 series are very close to the E90/92
The new 2 series is nice, but way overpriced
6 series GC looks great, but it's too big and too heavy for my liking
I don't like SUVs
And the Z4 is a joke, why would I buy that over a boxster?
Anyone that chooses the Z4 over a boxster is defiantly not a car fan
So what's left?
I'm forced to buy from another manufacturer now
I'd love an i8
But it's way overpriced for what it is
Maybe if there was an i8 with the S65 I'd be game
Even design wise, I see mercedes ( which I have always disliked) producing cars that look much better than the current crop of BMWs
The CLA, the s class coupe, the gla
All look much better than their BMW equivalent
As much as it hurts me to say it
BMW is not ahead of the competition anymore
Which, from a BMW fan, is not a pleasant thought
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      02-13-2014, 11:23 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joewalton View Post
Three things:

You have owned and driven some of the most niche vehicles in BMW's history yet you condemn the 4 Gran Coupe. BMW has suddenly "lost its way"? How about BMW is merely creating more niche vehicles, just a few that you don't find agreeable.

BMW's are luxury cars and luxury cars cost money. I'm sorry that the sport suspension you used to get at no charge costs money now. It sure looks like you have no problem in affording it. So pay up like you always have and quit your whining.

BMW has just begun building cars to compete with Lexus and Mercedes Benz? LOL. That's rich.

Hey Joe.... Exactly which of the BMW's on my list are some of the most "Niche" vehicles in their history? I would hardly consider the 3 series and 5 series niche vehicles.

Secondly, you're missing my very valid point. They are splitting up options that should go together into separate packages forcing you to pay a lot of money for things you don't want. Example: The rear view and surround view cameras are in two different packages, forcing you to take heads up display which I find distracting. Also, all the individual options are becoming laughable. An X6M? A 3 series GT? An M4? What's the real difference between the 1 and 2?

I have had the opportunity to live with the brand for decades. I know what the older cars that MADE BMW what it is today "used" to drive like when the company was about building true performance cars... when "the ultimate driving machine" meant something. BMW drivers and Mercedes drivers were different breeds. Now BMW is soft luxury, and Benz is making their cars stiff and taunt. Go drive an E39 series 530 sport. Pure harmony. BMW has not gotten a car "that right" since.

You are a newcomer to the brand, and obviously have been swooned by their marketing bullshit. I'm not whining, but i'm not happy the entire brand has gone soft. The truth is you have not been around the brand long enough to truly understand where I'm coming from and that's honestly not meant to be a dig. If you knew the old BWM, the New BMW would be disappointing you too. The allure of any BMW is the silky smooth straight 6 engine. Anyone that has driven those legendary 6'ers for years KNOWS the raspy, coarse, 4 cylinder engine plagued with turbo lag is a sad excuse for a BMW power plant. But it fills a cheap "Niche" to get new comers into the brand... it sells cars to folks that can't afford the 6ers. It's not about gas milage. Its about selling a cheap BMW to the accord buyer.

Hopefully the new M3 will bring promise and the new X5 will handle reasonably well. There was a time I never considered other brands, but I'll cross shop Porsche and Range Rover this time for sure. BMW simply does not excite me anymore.

I can afford to play the BMW game but I'm far too smart to pay individual prices for black paint.

Last edited by NewM3driver; 02-13-2014 at 11:48 PM..
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      02-14-2014, 01:43 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
Hey Joe.... Exactly which of the BMW's on my list are some of the most "Niche" vehicles in their history? I would hardly consider the 3 series and 5 series niche vehicles.

Secondly, you're missing my very valid point. They are splitting up options that should go together into separate packages forcing you to pay a lot of money for things you don't want. Example: The rear view and surround view cameras are in two different packages, forcing you to take heads up display which I find distracting. Also, all the individual options are becoming laughable. An X6M? A 3 series GT? An M4? What's the real difference between the 1 and 2?

I have had the opportunity to live with the brand for decades. I know what the older cars that MADE BMW what it is today "used" to drive like when the company was about building true performance cars... when "the ultimate driving machine" meant something. BMW drivers and Mercedes drivers were different breeds. Now BMW is soft luxury, and Benz is making their cars stiff and taunt. Go drive an E39 series 530 sport. Pure harmony. BMW has not gotten a car "that right" since.

You are a newcomer to the brand, and obviously have been swooned by their marketing bullshit. I'm not whining, but i'm not happy the entire brand has gone soft. The truth is you have not been around the brand long enough to truly understand where I'm coming from and that's honestly not meant to be a dig. If you knew the old BWM, the New BMW would be disappointing you too. The allure of any BMW is the silky smooth straight 6 engine. Anyone that has driven those legendary 6'ers for years KNOWS the raspy, coarse, 4 cylinder engine plagued with turbo lag is a sad excuse for a BMW power plant. But it fills a cheap "Niche" to get new comers into the brand... it sells cars to folks that can't afford the 6ers. It's not about gas milage. Its about selling a cheap BMW to the accord buyer.

Hopefully the new M3 will bring promise and the new X5 will handle reasonably well. There was a time I never considered other brands, but I'll cross shop Porsche and Range Rover this time for sure. BMW simply does not excite me anymore.

I can afford to play the BMW game but I'm far too smart to pay individual prices for black paint.
Niche Vehicles: The M3 and all your MT's are "niche", BMW sells very few of them, in another automotive company they'd never exist, the Gran Coupe is of the same mold.

Splitting Options: BMW is a big business and big businesses are about making money. You have bought almost a dozen BMW's brand new. You have the money. Spend it. Or buy a Kia. Can't have it both ways.

Marketing Bullshit: BMW was never some hobbyists brand, never some enthusiasts paradise. That's a false perception you've allowed to consume you. At Burger King you don't really "Have It Your Way", Coke isn't really "The Real Thing". "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is just an ad-man's tagline, nothing more.

4 Cylinder Engine: Last time I checked, the N20 is faster than classic M3's in the E36 and E46 ilk and most of your 5's. There's not a car on the road that I haven't blown past when the situation deemed it necessary. Gobs of power is something that no F30 owner is complaining about.

Newcomer To The Brand: I cut my teeth and took my road test in my dad's 1980 7 Series, went to prom in my dad's 1982 5 Series, spent years tossing around my mom's E36 and E46, have owned an E93, E90, and F30. Check your assumptions before you make them.

Moving On For Money: Your issue with BMW seems to be that they've changed and are asking you to spend more money so you're thinking of leaving. There isn't anything else you really needed to add. Just say you can't afford a BMW any more and that's that. For years BMW gave you a free sport suspension and nice gadgets. That day is done. Gotta pay to play now.
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      02-14-2014, 07:15 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joewalton View Post
Niche Vehicles: The M3 and all your MT's are "niche", BMW sells very few of them, in another automotive company they'd never exist, the Gran Coupe is of the same mold.

Splitting Options: BMW is a big business and big businesses are about making money. You have bought almost a dozen BMW's brand new. You have the money. Spend it. Or buy a Kia. Can't have it both ways.

Marketing Bullshit: BMW was never some hobbyists brand, never some enthusiasts paradise. That's a false perception you've allowed to consume you. At Burger King you don't really "Have It Your Way", Coke isn't really "The Real Thing". "The Ultimate Driving Machine" is just an ad-man's tagline, nothing more.

4 Cylinder Engine: Last time I checked, the N20 is faster than classic M3's in the E36 and E46 ilk and most of your 5's. There's not a car on the road that I haven't blown past when the situation deemed it necessary. Gobs of power is something that no F30 owner is complaining about.

Newcomer To The Brand: I cut my teeth and took my road test in my dad's 1980 7 Series, went to prom in my dad's 1982 5 Series, spent years tossing around my mom's E36 and E46, have owned an E93, E90, and F30. Check your assumptions before you make them.

Moving On For Money: Your issue with BMW seems to be that they've changed and are asking you to spend more money so you're thinking of leaving. There isn't anything else you really needed to add. Just say you can't afford a BMW any more and that's that. For years BMW gave you a free sport suspension and nice gadgets. That day is done. Gotta pay to play now.
If you are happy with the a 4 banger that goes fast that's all that really matters. I would never want to deal with that but I don't have to drive your car so its all good.

Enjoy your ride.
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      02-16-2014, 11:36 AM   #56
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well I guess that settles it. 4GC Individual will be up next. love that interior.
Perfect compromise between the 5- and 3-series (sedans). Will probably get this car next too.
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      03-31-2014, 08:15 AM   #57
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so this is a 4k/5k paint option?
i like the moonstone paint a lot.
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      03-31-2014, 11:01 AM   #58
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Am I the only one here who thinks BMW makes a lot of sense? Is it because I am not a BMW fanboy? I recently bought a BMW for the very first time, after considering a Subaru and a Volvo. I bought it not because it is the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but because it offered all the features and options that were most useful to me. The fact that it drives nice is a plus. So in a sense the car to me is rather utilitarian.

To me the 4 series Gran Coupe also makes a lot of sense from an utilitarian perspective, and I just might trade up to it eventually. I like the fact that it has a hatch back, and four doors. It is a very good compromise between the 3 series sedan and the 3 series GT, which I consider to be too tall and heavy.

I think BMW is doing many things right, by catering to people with different tastes and requirements - even including stripped down cars for those who can only afford to lease at a low monthly payment.

Do I wish that perhaps BMW makes few models and sells fewer cars? Well, sometimes, as for the amount I paid I don't even get exclusivity. But if they did, than perhaps they would not have made a model that I liked. Unlike the fanboys I don't _have_ to drive a BMW.
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      03-31-2014, 11:12 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by jasemsport View Post
The nutmeg looks good... Also like the leather dash, makes the car stand out.
I like the leather dash too, even if it were not real leather.

I can never understand how luxury car makers can get away with using rubber for the dash, regardless of how soft touch the rubber is.
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      03-31-2014, 12:37 PM   #60
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I like Tanzanite Blue


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