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      10-15-2011, 02:03 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
I actually have. Quality has certainly improved significantly over the e60, but still left me wanting more. The plastics that were used for the volume and adjusting the temp settings just didn't feel quality. The buttons felt like they were going to come off. Though, the 5er is also just shows more of how BMW has lost it's way. Finishing every comparison test 3/3 because the aggressive feel and sportiness is gone. Thanks to the poorly thought out electric steering. The new Audi A6 has electric steering...but doesn't make me want to fall asleep at the wheel. The E60 even thought it was hideous did better then that. Remember the days when a BMW actually stood for something? When someone said BMW, you thought, Sporty..aggressive...in your face?

Now mention a BMW to someone and you'll get, You mean that luxo boat? Yeah, it makes a great cruiser.
If you are worried about keeping up with the joneses or what someone's opinion of a brand is, you are really in the wrong place. A BMW is a BMW, a mix of sport, luxury and quality with the biggest tilt on the drive and handling. Every BMW i've owned up to the latest 1M has totally fullfilled that criteria by a long shot, and to be honest I don't care what anyone else thinks of the car, because I'm happy with it.

I think this mythical old BMW you are describing is some kind of hybrid of a ferrari and a bugati, i'm not exactly sure, but I can tell you it doesnt exist. What I can say is that I've owned a few BMWs and I've never bought a newer model of a series that went down in quality or any other factor.

My best advice is to worry about if the car makes you happy and not if other people think its a luxo boat or whatever else... If this car doesn't make you happy, thats a shame, then you need to find something that does make you happy.

As a multi-generational 3-Series owner, by looks alone, this car tops them all. The only question in my mind right now is how it will drive, but I will leave that judgement for the day I get behind the wheel. Nothing that BMW has done in the last 3 generations leaves any doubt in my mind on how it will be.
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      10-15-2011, 02:06 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
Perhaps HotIce and I are the minority here. While I do not completely disagree with what you say, I must say I agree with HotIce more. We own BMWs like most everyone here.

Why did we buy one? Why did I buy one? I grew up around these cars. I was passionate about them since I was 5. My father's 7 series cars and my mother's 5/7 series cars over the years. When I was old enough to afford one of these cars, and I first set eyes on the E46 M3, it exuded passion, elegance, luxury, sportiness and the spirit of BMW. It would inspire you and make you smile and it would excite you to just look at it. So elegant, so well executed. No fuss and no pretensions. I had the same feeling when I first saw the E92 (the 2006 E90 did not excite much). Simple, elegant lines and pure BMW characteristics. I did not need to tell myself I am driving a sporty car, or a luxury car or a modern car. I did not need a badge on the side of the car or a BMW salesman to tell me that either. I felt it from the moment I saw it. And I felt it when I drove it. There was passion in engineering and design.

When I see this new 3 (and the new 1 series, the X1/X3 and the i3), it does nothing to me. No excitement, nothing inspires. They seem to be trying too hard and everything looks like an afterthought. It shows in the design. A Jaguar CX16 brings the passion back. I sigh and shake my head in somewhat disbelief and feel defeated. At the end of the day they need to sell more cars but to do it in this manner is unfortunate.

Sorry for my rant. I guess I am too passionate about design and engineering. Something that they need to get back.
You didn't like the E90, you don't like the F30. Maybe you're just not into sedans.

To me, the F30 is superior to the E90 in every way. The interior is nicer, the quality is better, the design is more modern. I don't say that it's flawless (e.g. light bulbs for turn indicators and brake lights come to mind). But there's no doubt to me that it will be more fun to drive. Of course the jury is still out on that one.


Best regards,
south
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      10-15-2011, 02:08 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
If you are worried about keeping up with the joneses or what someone's opinion of a brand is, you are really in the wrong place. A BMW is a BMW, a mix of sport, luxury and quality with the biggest tilt on the drive and handling. Every BMW i've owned up to the latest 1M has totally fullfilled that criteria by a long shot, and to be honest I don't care what anyone else thinks of the car, because I'm happy with it.

I think this mythical old BMW you are describing is some kind of hybrid of a ferrari and a bugati, i'm not exactly sure, but I can tell you it doesnt exist. What I can say is that I've owned a few BMWs and I've never bought a newer model of a series that went down in quality or any other factor.

My best advice is to worry about if the car makes you happy and not if other people think its a luxo boat or whatever else... If this car doesn't make you happy, thats a shame, then you need to find something that does make you happy.

As a multi-generational 3-Series owner, by looks alone, this car tops them all. The only question in my mind right now is how it will drive, but I will leave that judgement for the day I get behind the wheel. Nothing that BMW has done in the last 3 generations leaves any doubt in my mind on how it will be.
You just proved my point, good sir. If a BMW is a mix of everything, why do we need a modern line, a design line, and a Sport line? A BMW use to make that statement with it's looks and drive. Not with a badge.

BMW's were known for how they handled yet, both the 7 and 5 leave you wanting more finishing last in their respective classes in every comparison test. I could care less about what someone thinks. My problem is that BMW isn't who they were. What they stood for. The 1M is just another Marketing shot by BMW. Putting a turbo engine in an M car...an engine from the normal model line. You're not catching the point I'm trying to make. BMW makes great cars, and they will continue to do so. They just won't be special anymore. They won't standout anymore. I've already stated that I will be switching to a PCar if I can by 2015/2016. I think that German brand still holds what makes me happy in a car. I will admit though, the S65 is intoxicating. Blissful. BMW at it's best.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...

Last edited by -=Hot|Ice=-; 10-15-2011 at 02:16 PM..
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      10-15-2011, 02:11 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You didn't like the E90, you don't like the F30. Maybe you're just not into sedans.

To me, the F30 is superior to the E90 in every way. The interior is nicer, the quality is better, the design is more modern. I don't say that it's flawless (e.g. light bulbs for turn indicators and brake lights come to mind). But there's no doubt to me that it will be more fun to drive. Of course the jury is still out on that one.


Best regards,
south
The e9x generation while still sticking to BMW's morals somewhat, was the beginning of the end. I think the e9x will be praised for years to come. Even if the e90 wasn't so gorgeous to look at.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      10-15-2011, 02:14 PM   #115
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I would also like to add that 88 pounds is nothing to really brag about. The 2nd Gen Cayenne lost 800 pounds. THAT'S something to brag about. If BMW really wants to save fuel, making the car lighter(not by 88 pounds) then the car will naturally save fuel. Less weight to carry around, MPG goes up. Audi is doing it and I firmly believe they are BMW's top rival.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      10-15-2011, 02:14 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
You just proved my point, good sir. If a BMW is a mix of everything, why do we need a modern line, a design line, and a Sport line? A BMW use to make that statement with it's looks and drive. Not with a badge.

BMW's were known for how they handled yet, both the 7 and 5 leave you wanting more finishing last in their respective classes in every comparison test. I could care less about what someone thinks. My problem is that BMW isn't who they were. What they stood for. The 1M is just another Marketing shot my BMW. You're not catching the point I'm trying to make. BMW makes great cars, and they will continue to do so. They just won't be special anymore. They won't standout anymore.
I know you want to debate me just for the sake of arguing. But if you took a breather, take a step back from the computer, you would realize a very obvious truth. The Sport and Luxury "Lines" are basically amp'd up version of Sport and Premium package that people buy as options when they buy a new car. These 'lines' already exist in BMWs, they just aren't labelled as such and now they are just being taken to the next level.

Its strange and different, I agree, but if I were buying an F30 tommorow, I'd get the M-Sport and I don't really care about all those other lines. I'm sure the guy buying the Luxury line is saying the same exact thing to himself. So whats the problem.
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      10-15-2011, 02:14 PM   #117
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Cup Holders

anyone notice cup holders?
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      10-15-2011, 02:18 PM   #118
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Loving the aggressive front and the interior is pure perfection.. BIG THUMBS UP
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      10-15-2011, 02:18 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myehia View Post
anyone notice cup holders?
They are covered.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      10-15-2011, 02:19 PM   #120
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Price / list ??

Anybody know if there is an unofficial price and options list out there on the new F30. Would like to price one out.
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      10-15-2011, 02:23 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You didn't like the E90, you don't like the F30. Maybe you're just not into sedans.

To me, the F30 is superior to the E90 in every way. The interior is nicer, the quality is better, the design is more modern. I don't say that it's flawless (e.g. light bulbs for turn indicators and brake lights come to mind). But there's no doubt to me that it will be more fun to drive. Of course the jury is still out on that one.


Best regards,
south
I love sedans - especially the E39 M5, the 2001 760Li.

I have not seen this in person and the quality may be better, but it is also not flawless as you mention. I watched the reveal and when I saw the angel eyes with the horizontal stripe above them in the dark before the first white car rolled out in to the open, I had that sinking feeling. Then came the trim around the fog lights (cheap looking plastic), the fog lights themselves, then the turn signals (went backwards from the E90 LCI) and then those badges on the side. When I saw Adrian van Hooydonk present the slideshow about the design with his usual talk about the flowing curves, etc., I wished I was there in the audience to question him.
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      10-15-2011, 02:27 PM   #122
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Anyone else notice the inside mirror doesn't have a compass or alarm clown nose?
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      10-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #123
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Hmm...still not sure how i feel about it. Seems like the rear seats will be heated too though!! Where's the hidden cup holders?
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      10-15-2011, 02:33 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by pman10 View Post
It looks good, but the proportions are all wrong. The wheelbase is too long for a car with that short a front end. It looks like a Z4 merged with a 5 series and then shortened a bit for good measure. It reminds me of a picture that has been stretched or had its dimensions altered too much.

Then again, I should have expected this, as BMWs have become larger and fatter with each generation. Like a spouse who won't quit eating unhealthy food. I personally have to draw the line, and have to say I certainly won't be in a 3-series for the next generation, which means I probably won't be in a BMW.
+1

Well said!
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      10-15-2011, 02:34 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforpower View Post
Anyone else notice the inside mirror doesn't have a compass or alarm clown nose?
That is probably because the car isn't equipped with a compass mirror or an alarm system? Or they took the clown nose out and put a flashing light somewhere more discrete.

Last edited by misterbeemer; 10-15-2011 at 02:40 PM..
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      10-15-2011, 02:35 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar_mike View Post
Hmm...still not sure how i feel about it. Seems like the rear seats will be heated too though!! Where's the hidden cup holders?
They are between the shifter and the dash. Covered.
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      10-15-2011, 02:37 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zirenz2006 View Post
The side badges are ridiculous and frankly a little douchey. I don't want a badge that says luxury on the side. Those will have to be removed.
U say douchey?

Already some people don't realize that some buy BMW because we liked the drive. They think it's because you want to be pretentious or be a poseur!

Now they have their confirmation!

It's like I'm buying a lovely corolla "special edition" or a civic with "pgmfi".

WTF? BMW! WTF?
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      10-15-2011, 02:44 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
I love sedans - especially the E39 M5, the 2001 760Li.

I have not seen this in person and the quality may be better, but it is also not flawless as you mention. I watched the reveal and when I saw the angel eyes with the horizontal stripe above them in the dark before the first white car rolled out in to the open, I had that sinking feeling. Then came the trim around the fog lights (cheap looking plastic), the fog lights themselves, then the turn signals (went backwards from the E90 LCI) and then those badges on the side. When I saw Adrian van Hooydonk present the slideshow about the design with his usual talk about the flowing curves, etc., I wished I was there in the audience to question him.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Questforpower View Post
Anyone else notice the inside mirror doesn't have a compass or alarm clown nose?
The M-Sport 335i had an alarm clown nose: http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598186


Best regards,
south
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      10-15-2011, 02:46 PM   #129
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight View Post
You didn't like the E90, you don't like the F30. Maybe you're just not into sedans.

To me, the F30 is superior to the E90 in every way. The interior is nicer, the quality is better, the design is more modern. I don't say that it's flawless (e.g. light bulbs for turn indicators and brake lights come to mind). But there's no doubt to me that it will be more fun to drive. Of course the jury is still out on that one.


Best regards,
south

Dear South, we loved the E90, Love the new 5.

But please pass the word to BMW Management... this one, The Front is garbage, a disaster from the front view and side view. (humpback comes to mind).

A BMW should not need words or justification to sell it. People always wanted to Buy BMWs because they looked good, nice design and on top of it... the drive was great.

Now, this puppy is a Double Bagger!

+

What are those stupid tags "Modern", "Luxury" & "Sports" WTF?

Really "Mordern"? Luxury?? Really?

Why don't they put a badge, "pretentious prick" on the back?

I think the recent study that said Germans were loosing their edge for whatever reason they gave in Engineering, Quality and high Talent is becoming quite true for BMW.
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      10-15-2011, 02:48 PM   #130
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@Hot Ice

Sport, Modern & Luxury Lines are an ADDITIONAL & OPTIONAL design lines. DESIGN lines. Get it? Optional & additional. You can still get standard non-Line car & pack it with non-line trims & features.

While design lines just bring some line-exclusive design elements - especially when it comes to exterior & interior trim, special color combos etc. Some such features are standard line feature, some are optional (eg. black side mirror cap on Spot line).

For those customers who want more of such exclusivity & customization.

I don't know what your problem really is. If your not interested in the Lines, don't opt for one, and get a standard non-car - and pack it with optional non-line features & packages.

You are complaining because there are more options, features, choices you can handle? What do you think you are? The one & only BMW customer? There are many, and for some of them they are now exclusive EXTRA (design) lines available.

I really don't get you. I really don't. Sorry.

PS: regarding the Line badges ... you can get your car debadged.
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      10-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #131
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I like this car, very much. Great one.

BUT,

Has anyone at BMW ever driven a car with white/light beige dashboard? Reflections really come up to your field of vision all time!! Light colour on upper dashboard is so studip option that most of the car makers don't even offer that in their individual program, even at extra money. For some cars you can buy it if you really want, from example from Ferrari like my friend did. And he says that the whole dashboard ruined the car...looks nice in pictures but doesn't work on the road at all. Even in these photos you can see strong reflections.

I hope BMW adds a warning to all persons ordering light beige dashboard regarding reflections on the road.
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      10-15-2011, 04:48 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnI View Post
@Hot Ice

Sport, Modern & Luxury Lines are an ADDITIONAL & OPTIONAL design lines. DESIGN lines. Get it? Optional & additional. You can still get standard non-Line car & pack it with non-line trims & features.

While design lines just bring some line-exclusive design elements - especially when it comes to exterior & interior trim, special color combos etc. Some such features are standard line feature, some are optional (eg. black side mirror cap on Spot line).

For those customers who want more of such exclusivity & customization.

I don't know what your problem really is. If your not interested in the Lines, don't opt for one, and get a standard non-car - and pack it with optional non-line features & packages.

You are complaining because there are more options, features, choices you can handle? What do you think you are? The one & only BMW customer? There are many, and for some of them they are now exclusive EXTRA (design) lines available.

I really don't get you. I really don't. Sorry.

PS: regarding the Line badges ... you can get your car debadged.
Dear EnI,

I'm sorry that you don't get the point.

There is no problem with packages; BMW always had packages... but for some of us, I guess we liked it when the package spoke for itself, instead of a cheesy American or Japanese over-marketing badges and BS lines that mean nothing. Sports -> OK, but Modern & Luxury? Really?

What are we buying when we buy a BMW, a non Modern car (Lada)? a non Luxurious car, but with a Luxury line (Honda Civic/Acura EL)?.

BMW always had the individual line; which was great and is still great today for those that want much more than the other customization packages.

Thus, just like Apple... the Lisa, the Newton and a few of their stuff turned out to be crap (Products & Marketing). Today Apple and even Steve Jobs (RIP) also recognized some of their stuff was crap.

I don't have to tow the company line or drink the Cool Aid. Sorry!

This is crap!
+
The design of the dash is Ok for a 1 series! For a 3 series, it's crap!

If I wanted Asian, i would go for Lexus, Toyota or Honda.

I won't bother on a de-badge, as I cannot de-bage those hideous light with tear ducts, that ugly cut line across the nose or that Beluga look from the side.

I'm sure that you are a nice person & I value your opinion. It's your choice if you love everything BMW does.

I'm all for choice, but when those choice are garbage or devalue the brand... I'm not.

Cheers,
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