[matty088]

Originally Posted by goj

A rental without any sport options. This OP is a character

And I'm not saying the f30 is without fault

attention seeking.

[kern417]

I watched the video, and I disagree. They don't suck, they just fit a different demographic. And they still have small cars and ///m cars to fit the style of people that miss that old thing. I just don't understand why people are annoyed that you pay more for a more comfortable car. Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few that knew what they were getting into and am happy with how the car drives.

The only thing I agree with is that you can get a lot of the comfort options in cheaper cars, but I think BMW still brings a premium due to offering rwd and 6MT along with the 6 cyl engines. And then, of course, the looks and styling.

Other than that, my only gripe is you're just beating a dead horse.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

"Ultimate Driving Machine"

Ah, a marketing tag line. A two edged sword.

But what BMW setup makes the grade? Who decides what specification makes the "UDM", they all can't be equal. Never have been, with or without a tag line. I recall when we had three different model E30 sedans in our company, back in the 1980's. Totally different cars to drive. The 318i could have come from a different place than the 323i. Even the mid range 320i lacked the driving feel off the 323i. All about specification and the engine, IMO.

If we start with non sport models with standard suspension, for example, it will never compare with the optioned models, or dare I say, anything like an M-car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by kern417

... I just don't understand why people are annoyed that you pay more for a more comfortable car. Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the few that knew what they were getting into and am happy with how the car drives...

I'm with you on the above points. The whole history of buying a BMW car has been based on ticking options, "pick and mix" builds. I believe that has been a big part of BMW's success. The choice to buy a basis spec' (what may appear as a stripped out model), a fully loaded, top end model in a range, or any combination in between.

Plus not everyone wants the most sporty BMW available in a model range, the hardest suspension, the biggest wheels, or the most powerful engine.

[jeffc83]

Shit this is brilliant just brilliant; let me break out the violin for ya dude. (OP) This made my laugh so hard tears ran down my leg. I hate when I'm running on the treadmill for half an hour and look down to see it's been 4 minutes. Such is life...

[kern417]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm with you on the above points. The whole history of buying a BMW car has been based on ticking options, "pick and mix" builds. I believe that has been a big part of BMW's success. The choice to buy a basis spec' (what may appear as a stripped out model), a fully loaded, top end model in a range, or any combination in between.

Plus not everyone wants the most sporty BMW available in a model range, the hardest suspension, the biggest wheels, or the most powerful engine.

Honestly this was my first brand new car order and I was incredibly happy that I got to pick the spec. I didn't want a stripper but I didn't want it fully loaded either. I love the creature comforts but I kept it 6MT with base MSport suspension so it still has the feel that I want. The best of both worlds for me.

And there are more than a handful of people on here that got a stripper 230i or 330i for a light, nimble driver's car. But imo you're not going to find a better performer in the same german category. mercedes and audi have the same feedback issues. Even alfa romeo made an amazing car and then put an electronic braking system under the dashboard.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Troll thread, poop & run, by a guy with a 8 year old BMW.

Interesting whining that a car, 430 convertible, that is basically a boulevard cruiser is not the second coming of a M4.

[Facin]

I have my problems with the direction BMW has been going just like any other BMW fan, but I still love my 2014 335. In the 2014 time range, there wasn’t another car that fit my bill that I like more. I have owned equal number of Audi’s as BMW’s...my wife’s current car is an Audi Q7. If I was shopping today, the S4/S5 sportback might sway me. But in 2014, the 335i was the clear choice to me. I just ordered the MPPK and I am looking forward to the 35hp jump to fall in love with this car all over again.

Is the steering as good as the E9X...no...but it is still great overall...especially with a good set of PSS at the wheels.

While far from perfect...and maybe indicating that I am quickly approaching 40...this starting to overtake my E46 M3 as my favorite BMW that I have owned.

Looking forward to what is in store for the G20.

[ANONYMOUS 4]

I don't understand the purpose of his post (OP) and who cares if he would ever buy one!

Some people have nothing better to do.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Old News. Many believe E Series including M3 was much better.

As for loss of sales, everyone knows it’s because consumers have shifted back towards SUVs with cheap gas and BMWs offerings are challenged.

And you don’t own a F3x....but posting in F3x forum for......page views for your video?

Got it.

It appears most of your posts are to hype or promote your YouTube channel.

Best response for others is to ignore and not click on video.

True.

The sales numbers question is correct in that SUV, SAV, and truck sales numbers have gone way up over the past few years.
All cars, coupes, sedans, hatchbacks, wagons, have declined overall as SUV, SAV, and truck sales have increased.

Prior to this, BMW sales in the US, and in particular the F30, actually increased as the general public liked the new softer BMW.
Even though BMW and the F30 was taking a beating in professional reviews, the buying public could care less as they liked the bigger and softer 3 series, much to the anger of the BMW driving enthusiast crown, like the majority of us here.

Those of us who have had BMW's and 3 series in the past know all too well that BMW bowed to the sales god and turned away from it's true faith of building great, fun to drive automobiles.

For the F30 the LCI is marginally better, but only marginally.
The hope is for BMW to return to form and do what it is very capable of doing, but they need to do it before they lose the driving enthusiasts who were the foundation that built BMW's reputation and the general public's desire and want to own one.

Unfortunately, for me BMW has been way too slow to respond and correct it's evil ways. My current 2016 340i Msport lease is finished in early Sept. 2018.
And it looks like BMW will not have the new G20 3 series ready for the 2019 model year orders that need to be in by late June as BMW starts the new model year construction in July after their summer vacation and retool period.

I will not extend my current 340i lease just to wait for BMW to make up it's mind as to what they will do and when.
And, I'm not going to shop in late fall and winter for my next car either.
I will be shopping for my next car this spring and summer and will be placing an order for what I want by late June.

I had a 2009 135i that I really enjoyed, so I'm looking at a 2 series.
However, the current model is really dated looking on the inside and I just can't see spending that much for an interior that doesn't look much different than my 135i did in 2009.

And to decide on a G20 I need to see it and sit in it and read some real world reviews before deciding on getting one.
Looks like that won't happen either for my time frame.
So, seems BMW is losing me after 4 BMW's since 2003.
I hope they are happy with all the freaking SUVs, SUVs, and GT's they keep coming up.

I see a new X2 up on BMW's site. Instead of making a small 2 series based sport sedan available sooner rather than later to compete with the A3/S3 and MB small sport sedans, BMW chooses to build and offer an 2 series based SUV/SAV.

Whatever.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

It's inescapable that the vast majority of people who buy (or lease) new cars just want something that's easy to live with and if they're spending any more than they have to it's mostly about image and additional convenience.

BMW did a great job on the F30 in making it widely optionable to the individual customer's desires and budget. They could have just as easily gone the VW route and said "you have to get an auto transmission and soft suspension and 4 paint colors and 3 trim lines and no options but you do get 2 types of floormats to choose from" and they still would have sold at least 90% of the cars they ended up selling.

BMW reads these forums and they know you "things were so great back in my day" guys are full of shit.

They also know they are just Marketing the Ultimate Driving Machine now and not really building it.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by RPM90

True.

The sales numbers question is correct in that SUV, SAV, and truck sales numbers have gone way up over the past few years.
All cars, coupes, sedans, hatchbacks, wagons, have declined overall as SUV, SAV, and truck sales have increased.

Prior to this, BMW sales in the US, and in particular the F30, actually increased as the general public liked the new softer BMW.
Even though BMW and the F30 was taking a beating in professional reviews, the buying public could care less as they liked the bigger and softer 3 series, much to the anger of the BMW driving enthusiast crown, like the majority of us here.

Those of us who have had BMW's and 3 series in the past know all too well that BMW bowed to the sales god and turned away from it's true faith of building great, fun to drive automobiles.

For the F30 the LCI is marginally better, but only marginally.
The hope is for BMW to return to form and do what it is very capable of doing, but they need to do it before they lose the driving enthusiasts who were the foundation that built BMW's reputation and the general public's desire and want to own one.

Unfortunately, for me BMW has been way too slow to respond and correct it's evil ways. My current 2016 340i Msport lease is finished in early Sept. 2018.
And it looks like BMW will not have the new G20 3 series ready for the 2019 model year orders that need to be in by late June as BMW starts the new model year construction in July after their summer vacation and retool period.

I will not extend my current 340i lease just to wait for BMW to make up it's mind as to what they will do and when.
And, I'm not going to shop in late fall and winter for my next car either.
I will be shopping for my next car this spring and summer and will be placing an order for what I want by late June.

I had a 2009 135i that I really enjoyed, so I'm looking at a 2 series.
However, the current model is really dated looking on the inside and I just can't see spending that much for an interior that doesn't look much different than my 135i did in 2009.

And to decide on a G20 I need to see it and sit in it and read some real world reviews before deciding on getting one.
Looks like that won't happen either for my time frame.
So, seems BMW is losing me after 4 BMW's since 2003.
I hope they are happy with all the freaking SUVs, SUVs, and GT's they keep coming up.

I see a new X2 up on BMW's site. Instead of making a small 2 series based sport sedan available sooner rather than later to compete with the A3/S3 and MB small sport sedans, BMW chooses to build and offer an 2 series based SUV/SAV.

Whatever.

Hate to break it to you but this is what the majority of Americans are buying so they're responding to that and not the "enthusiasts"...it's all about the bottom dollar and not pleasing the "enthusiast" in the end. Cadillac is doing the same thing literally! I have been waiting for the replacement CTS and ATS yet they just announced their "new and innovative CUV" or whatever the hell it is and delayed the car. MB did one worse with the CLA.

When anyone says anything looks "dated", that's an opinion and whether anyone else agrees or not makes no difference. Having said that, I've been asked if my car is a 5-Series at least a dozen times recently and every person mentions how good it looks both inside and out even if I don't agree with them at times. You must have really gotten bored with this car or something (or just never liked it) because I'm right there with you in regards to the "M240i experience" minus the "dated look"...it was not only more exciting to drive, it felt like a true driver's car. Now back to the F30...I enjoy it "almost" as much and there are only a few things that I do not like about it. Now my next car will most likely be a 2-er as it really likes to play but you really shot this car down like it's a piece of shit and it's not. Read the reviews of the F30 for 2013 and 2014, not at the end of it's life cycle. I'll give you that, they are slow as shit to release the G20.

[Kafkaesque328]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Ah, a marketing tag line. A two edged sword.

But what BMW setup makes the grade? Who decides what specification makes the "UDM", they all can't be equal. Never have been, with or without a tag line. I recall when we had three different model E30 sedans in our company, back in the 1980's. Totally different cars to drive. The 318i could have come from a different place than the 323i. Even the mid range 320i lacked the driving feel off the 323i. All about specification and the engine, IMO.

If we start with non sport models with standard suspension, for example, it will never compare with the optioned models, or dare I say, anything like an M-car.

I will say this - the 320 base model is the cheapest most basic vehicle available in the states and having spent considerable time in base models of other 'lesser brands', I would say the 320 is a better driver than any of them. Yes, a base 320 is more expensive than say, a base Altima or Accord with FWD and the continuously vaginal transmissions, but it drives better by a long shot.

Thus... if the cheapest most entry level model in the brand drives better than other entry level sedans on the market, or even mid level, than one could deduce that BMW does indeed make the ultimate driving machine

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by jeffc83

Hate to break it to you but this is what the majority of Americans are buying so they're responding to that and not the "enthusiasts"...it's all about the bottom dollar and not pleasing the "enthusiast" in the end. Cadillac is doing the same thing literally! I have been waiting for the replacement CTS and ATS yet they just announced their "new and innovative CUV" or whatever the hell it is and delayed the car. MB did one worse with the CLA.

When anyone says anything looks "dated", that's an opinion and whether anyone else agrees or not makes no difference. Having said that, I've been asked if my car is a 5-Series at least a dozen times recently and every person mentions how good it looks both inside and out even if I don't agree with them at times. You must have really gotten bored with this car or something (or just never liked it) because I'm right there with you in regards to the "M240i experience" minus the "dated look"...it was not only more exciting to drive, it felt like a true driver's car. Now back to the F30...I enjoy it "almost" as much and there are only a few things that I do not like about it. Now my next car will most likely be a 2-er as it really likes to play but you really shot this car down like it's a piece of shit and it's not. Read the reviews of the F30 for 2013 and 2014, not at the end of it's life cycle. I'll give you that, they are slow as shit to release the G20.

Well Jeff, I don't know that I need to have it broken to me that most of the auto industry reacts to what the public buys.
For some odd reason you seem to assume that I don't know that.

Clearly I am speaking as an enthusiast, as that is the kind of site we are posting on. Thus, it is to be expected that the majority of comments and opinions posted here will be from an enthusiast perspective.
The majority of us don't buy our cars based strictly on utility and/or value.
After all, we have all chosen to pay BMW's cost of admission when we could have easily chosen something just as useful, practical, and much lower cost like a Honda Accorn or Toyota Camry.

Also, it's true that how one views styling and design is a matter of personal taste, so it's obvious that I too would have my own opinions on that subject.
You seem to want to point out the obvious, but that's fine too.
Although I don't really understand the point you are trying to make with that correct, though obvious, observation.

I like the F30, which is why when my 2012 335i Msport lease was up I decided to get an LCI 2016 340i Msport. Am I know bored with the F30?
Well, as I am now on my 6th year with this model, yes I am ready for something new. I have high hopes about the G20. The problem is that the G20 is being brought to US market after my current 340i lease is up.
I was expecting BMW to bring the very important 3 series replacement as soon as they can, but they aren't.

Here is something you wrote that is rather oddly worded.

"Now my next car will most likely be a 2-er as it really likes to play but you really shot this car down like it's a piece of shit and it's not.

I shot it down like, "...it's a piece of shit..."?
What car are you referencing?
Here is what I wrote about the 2 series:

"I had a 2009 135i that I really enjoyed, so I'm looking at a 2 series.
However, the current model is really dated looking on the inside and I just can't see spending that much for an interior that doesn't look much different than my 135i did in 2009."

That doesn't look like I'm calling the 2 series a piece of shit.
Perhaps you meant to say that I was calling the F30 a piece of shit?
If so, you're wrong again.
As I just wrote about, I choose to have the initial 2012 F30 335i Msport, and then followed that up with my choice to get my 2016 LCI 2016 340i Msport.

I've driven the 2 series, both the 230i and M240i, both 2017 models. I like how they drive very much. That is why I am looking at a 2 series as my new car to replace my 340i. I don't decide to purchase or lease cars that I think are a piece of shit. Still, the interior design of the current 2 series is not that much different from my former 135i, which is a design from 10 years ago.
Thus, to me the current 2 series interior looks dated and overly familiar and I would prefer a newer design.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Well Jeff, I don't know that I need to have it broken to me that most of the auto industry reacts to what the public buys.
For some odd reason you seem to assume that I don't know that.

Clearly I am speaking as an enthusiast, as that is the kind of site we are posting on. Thus, it is to be expected that the majority of comments and opinions posted here will be from an enthusiast perspective.
The majority of us don't buy our cars based strictly on utility and/or value.
After all, we have all chosen to pay BMW's cost of admission when we could have easily chosen something just as useful, practical, and much lower cost like a Honda Accorn or Toyota Camry.

Also, it's true that how one views styling and design is a matter of personal taste, so it's obvious that I too would have my own opinions on that subject.
You seem to want to point out the obvious, but that's fine too.
Although I don't really understand the point you are trying to make with that correct, though obvious, observation.

I like the F30, which is why when my 2012 335i Msport lease was up I decided to get an LCI 2016 340i Msport. Am I know bored with the F30?
Well, as I am now on my 6th year with this model, yes I am ready for something new. I have high hopes about the G20. The problem is that the G20 is being brought to US market after my current 340i lease is up.
I was expecting BMW to bring the very important 3 series replacement as soon as they can, but they aren't.

Here is something you wrote that is rather oddly worded.

"Now my next car will most likely be a 2-er as it really likes to play but you really shot this car down like it's a piece of shit and it's not.

I shot it down like, "...it's a piece of shit..."?
What car are you referencing?
Here is what I wrote about the 2 series:

"I had a 2009 135i that I really enjoyed, so I'm looking at a 2 series.
However, the current model is really dated looking on the inside and I just can't see spending that much for an interior that doesn't look much different than my 135i did in 2009."

That doesn't look like I'm calling the 2 series a piece of shit.
Perhaps you meant to say that I was calling the F30 a piece of shit?
If so, you're wrong again.
As I just wrote about, I choose to have the initial 2012 F30 335i Msport, and then followed that up with my choice to get my 2016 LCI 2016 340i Msport.

I've driven the 2 series, both the 230i and M240i, both 2017 models. I like how they drive very much. That is why I am looking at a 2 series as my new car to replace my 340i. I don't decide to purchase or lease cars that I think are a piece of shit. Still, the interior design of the current 2 series is not that much different from my former 135i, which is a design from 10 years ago.
Thus, to me the current 2 series interior looks dated and overly familiar and I would prefer a newer design.

Damn this would take years to respond to, LMAO! First off, that's "Captain Obvious" sir which is my M.O. I must've taken your post the wrong way, which is what I get for attempting the dreaded multitasking at the office. I'll find time tomorrow to reply to your post but it's a bit hectic here to read and reply now.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

It's inescapable that the vast majority of people who buy (or lease) new cars just want something that's easy to live with and if they're spending any more than they have to it's mostly about image and additional convenience.

BMW did a great job on the F30 in making it widely optionable to the individual customer's desires and budget. They could have just as easily gone the VW route and said "you have to get an auto transmission and soft suspension and 4 paint colors and 3 trim lines and no options but you do get 2 types of floormats to choose from" and they still would have sold at least 90% of the cars they ended up selling.

BMW reads these forums and they know you "things were so great back in my day" guys are full of shit.

Having the ability to get the options a customer wants and custom order and get their BMW in a very reasonable time frame has been a BMW thing well before the F30. Many people are new to BMW and that's great.
But there was a BMW before the F30, as there was a BMW before the E46.
Even in 2003 when I got my first BMW I was able to get a good array of options and that is one big reason why I have and like BMW, and why I come back to the brand.

This is an enthusiast site and we approach BMWs and the auto industry from a very different point of view to the vast majority who view their vehicle purchase as appliances and/or just status symbols.
There is no need nor want for posters to say that we enthusiasts and our thought and opinions are full of shit.
Your attempt to hide your little insult isn't so well hidden.

If you view your vehicle ownership from a more practical day to day application where utility is the more important aspect for you, that's great.
If that is your point of view, it's respected and accepted.
You should then also expect others to express their thoughts and opinions.
It would also be better if you refrain from making posts that are feeble attempts to shit on other members points of view.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by jeffc83

Damn this would take years to respond to, LMAO! First off, that's "Captain Obvious" sir which is my M.O. I must've taken your post the wrong way, which is what I get for attempting the dreaded multitasking at the office. I'll find time tomorrow to reply to your post but it's a bit hectic here to read and reply now.

Come on now Jeff.
I'm sure it won't take you years to read that.

If it's too much for you, then just ignore me and move along to simpler, less wordy, and happier places.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Come on now Jeff.
I'm sure it won't take you years to read that.

If it's too much for you, then just ignore me and move along to simpler, less wordy, and happier places.

LOL, I deserved that I was just kidding about the years to read and will respectfully reply when I have time to break it down. Much of it was poor wording on my part and a misunderstanding of what I read on your post but I'm happy to clarify man. On a conference call now sadly... was supposed to end an hour and 30 minutes ago:/

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

They also know they are just Marketing the Ultimate Driving Machine now and not really building it.

BMW also uses the tag line Efficient Dynamics these days.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

BMW also uses the tag line Efficient Dynamics these days.

Yeah, I saw it first on my 2009 135i quarter glass. Not my idea of a catchy slogan, but certainly more accurate. Sounds more like how my doctor would describe a healthy digestive tract.

[jeffc83]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Well Jeff, I don't know that I need to have it broken to me that most of the auto industry reacts to what the public buys.
For some odd reason you seem to assume that I don't know that.

Clearly I am speaking as an enthusiast, as that is the kind of site we are posting on. Thus, it is to be expected that the majority of comments and opinions posted here will be from an enthusiast perspective.
The majority of us don't buy our cars based strictly on utility and/or value.
After all, we have all chosen to pay BMW's cost of admission when we could have easily chosen something just as useful, practical, and much lower cost like a Honda Accorn or Toyota Camry.

Also, it's true that how one views styling and design is a matter of personal taste, so it's obvious that I too would have my own opinions on that subject.
You seem to want to point out the obvious, but that's fine too.
Although I don't really understand the point you are trying to make with that correct, though obvious, observation.

I like the F30, which is why when my 2012 335i Msport lease was up I decided to get an LCI 2016 340i Msport. Am I know bored with the F30?
Well, as I am now on my 6th year with this model, yes I am ready for something new. I have high hopes about the G20. The problem is that the G20 is being brought to US market after my current 340i lease is up.
I was expecting BMW to bring the very important 3 series replacement as soon as they can, but they aren't.

Here is something you wrote that is rather oddly worded.

"Now my next car will most likely be a 2-er as it really likes to play but you really shot this car down like it's a piece of shit and it's not.

I shot it down like, "...it's a piece of shit..."?
What car are you referencing?
Here is what I wrote about the 2 series:

"I had a 2009 135i that I really enjoyed, so I'm looking at a 2 series.
However, the current model is really dated looking on the inside and I just can't see spending that much for an interior that doesn't look much different than my 135i did in 2009."

That doesn't look like I'm calling the 2 series a piece of shit.
Perhaps you meant to say that I was calling the F30 a piece of shit?
If so, you're wrong again.
As I just wrote about, I choose to have the initial 2012 F30 335i Msport, and then followed that up with my choice to get my 2016 LCI 2016 340i Msport.

I've driven the 2 series, both the 230i and M240i, both 2017 models. I like how they drive very much. That is why I am looking at a 2 series as my new car to replace my 340i. I don't decide to purchase or lease cars that I think are a piece of shit. Still, the interior design of the current 2 series is not that much different from my former 135i, which is a design from 10 years ago.
Thus, to me the current 2 series interior looks dated and overly familiar and I would prefer a newer design.

More or less, much of it was a misunderstanding as I had mentioned last night. Once again, I attempted to do too many things at once so most of it was "misread" and I admit fault. However, I'm still curious about where you really stand with the F30:

You mention you "like the F30" but say this:

Those of us who have had BMW's and 3 series in the past know all too well that BMW bowed to the sales god and turned away from it's true faith of building great, fun to drive automobiles.

Well, I took it the wrong way and I'm sure you'll enjoy the 2-er much much more but I still find the 3-er fun to drive even with this X-Drive setup let alone everything else BMW has done to screw this car up as many enthusiasts mention all the time here...I think this is the comment that "got me" then I misread from there trying to do too many things at once.

Although I might have deserved a poke at my first comment, any further insults would truly show what kind of person you are and I don't think you're that person. (you don't sound like it) No need to "belittle" anyone over a simple mistake.

[rebattery]

total disagree, best daily driver I've every had!! that includes 1602, 2002, e30 M3, e36 328, e46 330i ZHP(next best) e92 335i, E39 M5, and Audi S5.
forgot e90 M3