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      09-10-2019, 09:03 AM   #331
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Just curious why more people haven't gone with the KW solution? No guess work on ride height, spring rates, bump stops, etc.

I see them listed on several tuner shops websites... Vivid Racing, Turner Motorsports, ECS Tuning, as well as Amazon.com
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      09-10-2019, 11:10 AM   #332
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I would consider KW DDC Plug and Play coilers but the lowering range is too low for daily driving and navigating through entry / exit parking lot ramps.
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      09-10-2019, 11:32 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by cfm56d7b View Post
I would consider KW DDC Plug and Play coilers but the lowering range is too low for daily driving and navigating through entry / exit parking lot ramps.
So you are saying even at max adjustment it will be too low?
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      09-10-2019, 12:20 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by oregondonor View Post
So you are saying even at max adjustment it will be too low?
Yes. I also looked into them briefly, and based upon the measurements they included at the max height they were still way too low for me.
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      09-10-2019, 12:29 PM   #335
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So I went to the North American KW site. Could not find the DCC Coilovers when selecting BMW 435i. I did however find them when choosing M235i.

Crazy thing... in the Description it indicates it's for 4 Series F32.

Lowering values are no more than standard lowering springs so anyone not wanting to go that low should be fine.

I have an email out to KW asking for specifics.
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      09-10-2019, 01:03 PM   #336
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For the wagon on KW's Euro site they state 25-55mm (.98-2.17") lowering in the front and 35-60mm (1.38-2.36in) in the rear.

Additionally in the TUV documentation they state the minimum hub to fender measurement is 330mm (12.99in) front and 320mm (12.6in) rear. If you add the adjustment range to that , that means the max hub to fender measurement is 360mm (14.17in) front and 345mm (13.58in) rear. That low of a rear hub to fender distance is too low for me.
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      09-10-2019, 01:37 PM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
For the wagon on KW's Euro site they state 25-55mm (.98-2.17") lowering in the front and 35-60mm (1.38-2.36in) in the rear.

Additionally in the TUV documentation they state the minimum hub to fender measurement is 330mm (12.99in) front and 320mm (12.6in) rear. If you add the adjustment range to that , that means the max hub to fender measurement is 360mm (14.17in) front and 345mm (13.58in) rear. That low of a rear hub to fender distance is too low for me.
I am amazed at all your documentation and data you have. I would have no clue what a good min or max hub to fender measurement is.

I know you do a lot of rock road driving so understand where you are coming from. For me, I just want to take care of some of my fender gap. I had coilovers on my E92 and that is really the route I want to go here. And I love the EDC. For my 90 miles of commuting everyday it's comfort mode for me!

The last time I was in Angles Camp was at a Dead show!
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      09-10-2019, 03:07 PM   #338
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Maybe then combine the EDC of the stock or the Bilsteins with an MSS Kit
https://mss.company/
Not the cheapest option but worked very well a few years back on my Gold R32 MKV (with Ohlins not active) now I just have to decide to keep the car (vs turning it in after the lease) and then I'll order a set myself
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      09-10-2019, 03:41 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oregondonor View Post
I am amazed at all your documentation and data you have. I would have no clue what a good min or max hub to fender measurement is.

I know you do a lot of rock road driving so understand where you are coming from. For me, I just want to take care of some of my fender gap. I had coilovers on my E92 and that is really the route I want to go here. And I love the EDC. For my 90 miles of commuting everyday it's comfort mode for me!

The last time I was in Angles Camp was at a Dead show!
A couple of things to consider when thinking of changing your height are where your LCAs will be in their compression swing/arc and what's the travel to bump stops. When the arms angle upwards (from the body out) as they compress you lose camber. If you lower and are hitting the bump stops all the time the ride is harsher than it needs to be.

For some folks the KW drop amounts are just what they're looking for. I'm just glad the data is out there so we can calculate for ourselves and determine whether it fits our own requirements/goals instead of having to "buy to try" and risk wasting $.


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Originally Posted by marcthedark View Post
Maybe then combine the EDC of the stock or the Bilsteins with an MSS Kit
https://mss.company/
Not the cheapest option but worked very well a few years back on my Gold R32 MKV (with Ohlins not active) now I just have to decide to keep the car (vs turning it in after the lease) and then I'll order a set myself
Might be an option if they published their spring rates. Otherwise they're only for those who want to alter the height/look. It's too bad they couldn't have made their front system compatible with standard coilover springs so users could swap to a known entity.

Without data, the mfg messaging is purely, "trust us" and if you don't, well you've just thrown $ away. Industry needs to have more answers to customers saying, "prove it."
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      10-01-2019, 02:34 AM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregondonor View Post
So you are saying even at max adjustment it will be too low?
Yes. I also looked into them briefly, and based upon the measurements they included at the max height they were still way too low for me.
You talking about the Bilstein B16 Adaptive
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      10-01-2019, 10:20 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You talking about the Bilstein B16 Adaptive
Of course, couldn't you tell? Still nothing to talk about with regard to the b16 as far as I can see. The b16 damptronic for our f30s still seems to be vaporware, and by my count we have a total of 1 member with the b6 damptronic installed. 1 place where you can maybe buy them but they are 1746$ for a set which is pretty steep for just the shocks. I think I lost interest after so long. There are far more options for the non-adaptive cars. The more I drive my car, the less I care about having two compromised modes of damping ; I think I'd rather just have 1 that works well and be done with it. EDC wasn't a major factor in choosing the car anyway, it just happened to be equipped as such and I didn't know a lot about it at the time.
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      10-01-2019, 12:41 PM   #342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jvac View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You talking about the Bilstein B16 Adaptive
Of course, couldn't you tell? Still nothing to talk about with regard to the b16 as far as I can see. The b16 damptronic for our f30s still seems to be vaporware, and by my count we have a total of 1 member with the b6 damptronic installed. 1 place where you can maybe buy them but they are 1746$ for a set which is pretty steep for just the shocks. I think I lost interest after so long. There are far more options for the non-adaptive cars. The more I drive my car, the less I care about having two compromised modes of damping ; I think I'd rather just have 1 that works well and be done with it. EDC wasn't a major factor in choosing the car anyway, it just happened to be equipped as such and I didn't know a lot about it at the time.
With all due respect, really wanted clarification from FaRKle! on the post I linked.
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      10-01-2019, 02:05 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You talking about the Bilstein B16 Adaptive
I was referring to the KW DDC.
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      10-01-2019, 06:37 PM   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
You talking about the Bilstein B16 Adaptive
I was referring to the KW DDC.
Any thoughts on the Bilstein B16 Adaptive supposedly about to show up 3.5 years after announcement?
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      10-02-2019, 01:05 PM   #345
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Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Any thoughts on the Bilstein B16 Adaptive supposedly about to show up 3.5 years after announcement?
Knowing what I do now about how lazy Bilstein is with their lack of chassis/model specific tuning it's an easy pass for me.

Additionally, I don't like how Bilstein picks their spring rates, which aren't tuned for a smooth ride.

As far as damping goes, I think these F3x damptronics could be interesting because they're a twin-tube design. That means they shouldn't have as high of a gas pressure, and also likely won't have as high low-speed compression damping as Bilstein's typical monotube shocks (both good things), but will they have enough low-speed compression to control body motions appropriately, which lots of twin tubes struggle with (like the OE adaptives)?

For the price, I won't miss not getting the B6 or B16 damptronics over my bespoke setup.
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      10-24-2019, 02:05 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Knowing what I do now about how lazy Bilstein is with their lack of chassis/model specific tuning it's an easy pass for me.

Additionally, I don't like how Bilstein picks their spring rates, which aren't tuned for a smooth ride.

As far as damping goes, I think these F3x damptronics could be interesting because they're a twin-tube design. That means they shouldn't have as high of a gas pressure, and also likely won't have as high low-speed compression damping as Bilstein's typical monotube shocks (both good things), but will they have enough low-speed compression to control body motions appropriately, which lots of twin tubes struggle with (like the OE adaptives)?

For the price, I won't miss not getting the B6 or B16 damptronics over my bespoke setup.
Sorry if i missed it, what is your setup?

Thanks!
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      10-24-2019, 02:13 PM   #347
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Update on my side:
I just swapped out my KW DDC for oem shocks with ST lowering springs;
Two reasons (which may be linked)
- ride was too harsh
- ride was too low, compounded by the fact the kit wasn’t designed for the heavier activehybrid 3

Overall the ride is much more tolerant to road imperfections than before, but (obviously) feels underdamped.

Now i would like your thoughts on where to go next
- B6 damptronic shocks with my lowering springs ? A bit worried that the ride is too stiff again
- B4 damptronic shocks with my lowering springs ? Does this bring any benefit over oem? Or are these exactly identical to oem?
- switch to passive setup - Ohlins ? And code out EDC... I’m not sure how ohlins would compare to b6 or kw ddc in terms of ride control and quality?
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      10-24-2019, 05:40 PM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Sorry if i missed it, what is your setup?

Thanks!
I'm running a fully custom setup that I'll be iterating on again by the end of the year. Currently I'm running F80 ZCP manual transmission front springs, 340i M-Perf rear springs, and Bilstein B6 dampers that have been reworked with Fat Cat Motorsports (FCM) stage 2 offering.

I'll be iterating to even stiffer springs to give me a 1.63Hz front and 1.85Hz rear ride frequencies, having FCM retune my dampers for that, and upgrading to their stage 3 technology (for an even more digressive compression/rebound curve). This new setup should be both more responsive and more comfortable/smooth than my existing one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancelot View Post
Update on my side:
I just swapped out my KW DDC for oem shocks with ST lowering springs;
Two reasons (which may be linked)
- ride was too harsh
- ride was too low, compounded by the fact the kit wasn’t designed for the heavier activehybrid 3

Overall the ride is much more tolerant to road imperfections than before, but (obviously) feels underdamped.

Now i would like your thoughts on where to go next
- B6 damptronic shocks with my lowering springs ? A bit worried that the ride is too stiff again
- B4 damptronic shocks with my lowering springs ? Does this bring any benefit over oem? Or are these exactly identical to oem?
- switch to passive setup - Ohlins ? And code out EDC... I’m not sure how ohlins would compare to b6 or kw ddc in terms of ride control and quality?
It sounds like your goals are similar to mine. You want a suspension that controls body movements well, gives responsive handling, and is smooth and comfortable.

There are no "off the shelf" (OTS) F3x coilover kits I've seen that will give you all those. To achieve that you need spring rates to boost your ride frequencies, a higher rear frequency than front (almost no coilover kit comes like this unless you go semi-custom and spec your spring rates), dampening with enough low-speed compression (and not too much rebound bias), dampening without too much compression/rebound in the high-speed range, and dampers that don't have high gas pressures (which prevent the dampers from working up to that force).

The only EDC system that might give you what you want is Tractive/DSC Sport. Anything else is going to be passive. OE EDC plus shockware and some slightly stiffer springs was a good and comfortable combo for daily driving IMO, but really showed its faults at the track. I can't really say I miss EDC after going to my existing passive setup.
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      10-29-2019, 11:37 AM   #349
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Hey guys, I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the B6 damptronic. I had originally intended to put M3 springs on my stock edc struts, but I'm not convinced it will make a big enough difference in the ride quality. Also, the M3 springs probably won't lower the car at all on the B6 damptronic.

Given that the B6 spring perch is higher than stock, what spring do we all agree will be a good fit and still lower my car a bit? I'm m-sport.
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      11-06-2019, 10:04 AM   #350
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49-255935

Just had a response from Bilstein in Germany regarding availability of the B16 Damptronic kit (49-255935) and they responded saying no stock available in Germany or the UK. Next production not scheduled until December.
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      11-06-2019, 11:17 AM   #351
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Already bought the B6 damptronic and eibach prokit, will fill you all in when it's installed. Will also be checking the cables before we even try to install
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      11-16-2019, 10:24 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaRKle! View Post
Yes. I also looked into them briefly, and based upon the measurements they included at the max height they were still way too low for me.
That sucks then! Wow I definitely do not want to go to low for these NYC streets.
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