02-27-2020, 08:22 AM | #1 |
Second Lieutenant
127
Rep 283
Posts |
Non flash tune
Probably a stupid question, but not knowing the answer i will ask anyway lol
My 440i has almost 3 years warranty on it so i do not want to flash tune it like i did my 440i as i know BMW can tell the DME has been unlocked, my question IS, can they tell if a piggyback tune used and if NOT what would you recommend for a simple stage 1 tune. |
02-27-2020, 09:33 AM | #2 |
Private First Class
47
Rep 163
Posts |
JB4 is detectable, all tunes are detectable. They will see you were running higher boost than you should be able to. Bottom line is if you are concerned with warranty do not install a tune.
|
02-27-2020, 09:45 AM | #3 |
Major General
3489
Rep 9,709
Posts |
The ECU logs peak parameters. So even with a piggy back, the ECU will be full of 'implausible' value markers, and peak values for reference.
In other words, there is no warranty safety to any method of power increase. |
02-29-2020, 10:40 AM | #6 |
Major
395
Rep 1,010
Posts |
MPPSK
__________________
2018 340i 8AT RWD - M Sport - Catless MPPSK - Stock Turbo - Stock HPFP
-------- Tunes: Self Made Tunes - MHD ------ Fuel: 92RON/87OCT -------- |
Appreciate
0
|
02-29-2020, 11:35 AM | #7 |
Captain
551
Rep 684
Posts
Drives: Your mom crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sioux Falls SD
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2020 BMW X3M CURRENT [0.00]
2016 BMW 340i BEAST [0.00] 2011 BMW 335i RIP [0.00] 2003 BMW 330i SOLD [0.00] |
2019 440i in UK likely has the gasoline particulate filter and therefore not eligible for MPPSK
__________________
2020 X3M
MG Flasher; Wedge Performance E50 tune MSS Urban; Rohana RFX11 |
Appreciate
1
IMS-340C394.50 |
02-29-2020, 12:10 PM | #8 |
Banned
550
Rep 949
Posts |
JB4 isn't detectable as has been well proven over the years, the vehicle is never aware it's making more power than stock, never aware it's making more boost than stock, and never aware it's using more fuel than stock.
That said as they always say pay for any damage you cause operating your vehicle outside of its factory specifications. |
Appreciate
1
JayFar101.00 |
02-29-2020, 02:23 PM | #9 | |
Colonel
2358
Rep 2,964
Posts |
Quote:
ps-love me some Dinan first modified a BMW via Dinan in 1987 on our 1985 528 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-29-2020, 02:31 PM | #10 | |
Colonel
2358
Rep 2,964
Posts |
Quote:
Sure the JB4 or JBXX or any other piggyback (or flash for that matter) is not physically detectable if you remove it - however the results of what it does (higher boost outside of oem parameters etc) are certainly detectable if someone (er uh the dealer - BMW etc..) digs deep enough TLDR: any mod is "detectable" if the oem wants to dig deep enough - we need to move beyond this piggyback vs flash making detectable an issue |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-29-2020, 04:08 PM | #11 | |
Banned
550
Rep 949
Posts |
Quote:
The flash on the other hand by design results in the ECU and many other modules storing higher than factory boost, torque, and load levels, in the trans module, stability control module, and others, and can never be fully removed even if "flashed to stock" after. There are a lot of things you can do on the flash side that are just not possible with a JB4 but it's also important to understand there are things not possible with a flash tune that are possible with a JB4. Removal without a trace is one of those things. |
|
Appreciate
1
JayFar101.00 |
02-29-2020, 05:22 PM | #12 | ||
Colonel
2358
Rep 2,964
Posts |
Quote:
okay most any engine modification can be detected by BMW if they dig deep enough |
||
Appreciate
0
|
02-29-2020, 09:15 PM | #13 |
Banned
550
Rep 949
Posts |
BMW guys often check social media and will even subpoena your credit card statements if it gets that far. I've heard of them showing customers forum posts or FB group posts they had made to people who make warranty claims. Sometimes they go around tracks and take photos of the VIN of cars there too.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-01-2020, 06:55 AM | #14 | |
Major General
3489
Rep 9,709
Posts |
Quote:
Next up, the car registers speeds and acceleration data, which again will raise flags. Put these together and the picture is clear that the car was making more than stock power. Probably won't go for a deep scan if your turbo fails, but if you blow the engine that's when Germany will want to find out if there is some issue with their product. There are cases where the ECU has been sent away for evaluation. |
|
Appreciate
2
les anderson145.50 chenry2357.50 |
03-01-2020, 11:05 AM | #15 | |
Banned
550
Rep 949
Posts |
Quote:
The JB4 does not remove the factory speed limiter and you can't infer tuning from the sorts of acceleration measurements the vehicle records. Also that system has no way of knowing whether you're going up or down an incline. It has no way of knowing whether you're running E0 89 octane or E15 93 octane. All of the data recorded has plausible ranges and the JB4 keeps those values within the plausible ranges for factory tuning. Most people who are flagged are because they failed to remove it or the dealer sees other modifications and voids based on those like a downpipe. With a flash map on the other hand anyone attaching in to the OBDII for diagnostics can easily spot the vehicle has been tuned and flashed back to factory. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-01-2020, 04:53 PM | #16 | ||
Major General
3489
Rep 9,709
Posts |
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-01-2020, 05:08 PM | #17 | |
Banned
550
Rep 949
Posts |
Quote:
It's funny that every few months this is a "new" topic. The JB4 has been out since 2008 and every time I've heard of someone claiming they were "detected" after removal there always turns up additional details to blame. Meanwhile, there are 100s of posts of no detection when removed. Compared to flash tune where the only people not flagged are those whose dealership didn't bother to document them (due to friendship) or tech who was too lazy to check. Any major warranty claim almost always denied even after flashed to factory and I get regular accounts of lease trade in denied, CPO denied, etc, due to flash. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-01-2020, 05:54 PM | #18 | ||
Major General
3489
Rep 9,709
Posts |
Quote:
By the way, OBD is a diagnostic portal. It does not have the ability to become the master in the signals you say it has power over (MAF, O2, manifold temp,etc). Those signals run on a different network. PT-CAN is what DME uses to talk to engine modules, OBD is not connected to PT-CAN. |
||
Appreciate
1
chenry2357.50 |
03-01-2020, 10:48 PM | #19 | ||
Banned
550
Rep 949
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
It's fine to be skeptical but keep in mind the JB4 is not some brand new device. It's a well established tuning platform that has been out almost 15 years. In addition to its reliability the diagnostic invisibility has also been well established over that period. Meanwhile, the record for flash tuning detection even if flashed to stock has also become painfully clear. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-01-2020, 10:57 PM | #20 |
Captain
551
Rep 684
Posts
Drives: Your mom crazy
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sioux Falls SD
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2020 BMW X3M CURRENT [0.00]
2016 BMW 340i BEAST [0.00] 2011 BMW 335i RIP [0.00] 2003 BMW 330i SOLD [0.00] |
Me watching this thread
__________________
2020 X3M
MG Flasher; Wedge Performance E50 tune MSS Urban; Rohana RFX11 |
03-02-2020, 07:45 AM | #21 |
Lieutenant Colonel
809
Rep 1,597
Posts |
My Active8 was not detected. I have seen posts where JB4 was. I thought flash tunes definitely would be but I have seen one guy's engine replaced and all he did was flash back to stock. This being said, the safest path is to get a stage 1 flash after warranty expires and do not get greedy with power. 390hp is more than enough for the street.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-02-2020, 10:46 AM | #22 | |
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
24186
Rep 190,777
Posts |
Quote:
Tens of thousands of users have been doing it for years
__________________
Check out our current sale by clicking on this link!
https://x-ph.com/sale/ Phone number 702-494-9435 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|