Sport+ for Trackday?

ToxicBlaster · 11-26-2018, 11:31 AM

Heading to Sebring in December. What setup do you guys run with? DSC off? Sport + with M/S?

I'm a novice driver and safety is more important to me than squeezing out a few extra seconds.

Thanks!

Solidjake · 11-28-2018, 12:58 AM

Sport, keep your traction on since you're a novice especially if you've never been to the track before. The last turn has A LOT of bumps and turning off traction will really put you at risk of losing control.

MacklinUSOB · 11-28-2018, 08:55 AM

Sebring is famously rough so definitely keep everything on for your first visit, but that's for any first visit to any track.

I never was a fan of sport mode, have found it too sensitive to modulate to my liking. I always run comfort with dynamic stability on track.

ToxicBlaster · 11-29-2018, 08:08 AM

Thanks for the tips! This is my second Sebring event. The first time I ran in Sport mode and "D" with a fully stock 428. I have made some modifications as I hated the brake performance. Changed the run flats to Indy 500's (245/40/16 all around), CoolCarbon Brake Pads, Motul RBF660 brake fluid, Remus Quad Exhaust, BMS Stage 1 Tune, and a front bumper M4 conversion with a front lip for that extra 50 whp

Will post some pics after the event.

Logicoeur · 11-29-2018, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicBlaster

Thanks for the tips! This is my second Sebring event. The first time I ran in Sport mode and "D" with a fully stock 428. I have made some modifications as I hated the brake performance. Changed the run flats to Indy 500's (245/40/16 all around), CoolCarbon Brake Pads, Motul RBF660 brake fluid, Remus Quad Exhaust, BMS Stage 1 Tune, and a front bumper M4 conversion with a front lip for that extra 50 whp

Will post some pics after the event.

Definitely doing it right with the brakes and dropping the RFTs.

BMWILUVU · 11-29-2018, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Definitely doing it right with the brakes and dropping the RFTs.

My experience is that the RFT handles better but has less traction on track. I am on PS4S now.

Logicoeur · 11-29-2018, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Definitely doing it right with the brakes and dropping the RFTs.

My experience is that the RFT handles better but has less traction on track. I am on PS4S now.

How does a tire handle well without traction? That's literally all it is meant to do correctly lol.

BMWILUVU · 11-29-2018, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

How does a tire handle well without traction? That's literally all it is meant to do correctly lol.

RFT = stiffer handling, better control

MacklinUSOB · 11-29-2018, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

How does a tire handle well without traction? That's literally all it is meant to do correctly lol.

RFT = stiffer handling, better control

It could have subjectively better handling characteristics at lower speeds, particularly turn in. Beyond that the stiff side walls are a real detriment to maximum slip angle and control of it while at or near their ultimate lateral grip, which itself is much lower than a conventional summer go-flat.

To get that back that stiffer handling, match the suspension to the new tire, just like BMW did by building a soft suspension around the RFT. Understandably not a simple job, but this is the track and AutoX board after all.

97supratt · 11-30-2018, 01:52 AM

Personally I dislike traction control but that's all upto you.

DVC · 11-30-2018, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

RFT = stiffer handling, better control

There's nothing from a performance standpoint that's better about run flats. With the right tire choice, wheel/tire widths, and tire pressures, a set of conventional tires will outperform RFTs in every way.
That said, RFTs nowadays are actually getting pretty good.

DVC · 11-30-2018, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicBlaster

Heading to Sebring in December. What setup do you guys run with? DSC off? Sport + with M/S?
I'm a novice driver and safety is more important to me than squeezing out a few extra seconds

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicBlaster

...This is my second Sebring event. The first time I ran in Sport mode and "D" with a fully stock 428. I have made some modifications as I hated the brake performance. Changed the run flats to Indy 500's (245/40/16 all around), CoolCarbon Brake Pads, Motul RBF660 brake fluid, Remus Quad Exhaust, BMS Stage 1 Tune, and a front bumper M4 conversion with a front lip for that extra 50 whp

Will post some pics after the event.

It's never a bad idea to start the event off in Sport mode...as you come up to speed, keep an eye out for the DSC light coming on to let you know where it's intervening. If you're able to mentally multitask on track, think about WHY it came on... was it because you need to be smoother in that section? If so, try to do better there next lap. Once you're cognizant of the areas where DSC was intervening (and let your instructor know, if you have one), switch to Sport+, which allows MUCH more leeway in terms of slip angles. In Sport+ you'll be able to tell whether the DSC was coming on unnecessarily in Sport, or if it was saving you from breaking loose.

EDWYER · 12-01-2018, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVC

There's nothing from a performance standpoint that's better about run flats. With the right tire choice, wheel/tire widths, and tire pressures, a set of conventional tires will outperform RFTs in every way.

Agreed.

ToxicBlaster · 12-01-2018, 08:26 PM

Suggestions on tire pressure? Default cold temps are front 32 and rear 38 - thinking about lowering them by 2 each.

BMWILUVU · 12-01-2018, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

It could have subjectively better handling characteristics at lower speeds, particularly turn in. Beyond that the stiff side walls are a real detriment to maximum slip angle and control of it while at or near their ultimate lateral grip, which itself is much lower than a conventional summer go-flat.

To get that back that stiffer handling, match the suspension to the new tire, just like BMW did by building a soft suspension around the RFT. Understandably not a simple job, but this is the track and AutoX board after all.

I think you are talking very small differences. I am really talking tire matched to suspension tuning. I chose the PS4S for its traction formula but it has threw off the feel and made it too soft and now am looking for new springs next year.

Logicoeur · 12-01-2018, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicBlaster

Suggestions on tire pressure? Default cold temps are front 32 and rear 38 - thinking about lowering them by 2 each.

Tire dependenant really. You have to see how they react after a run or two and adjust appropriately. There's a thread in this section somewhere

MacklinUSOB · 12-01-2018, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

It could have subjectively better handling characteristics at lower speeds, particularly turn in. Beyond that the stiff side walls are a real detriment to maximum slip angle and control of it while at or near their ultimate lateral grip, which itself is much lower than a conventional summer go-flat.

To get that back that stiffer handling, match the suspension to the new tire, just like BMW did by building a soft suspension around the RFT. Understandably not a simple job, but this is the track and AutoX board after all.

I think you are talking very small differences. I am really talking tire matched to suspension tuning. I chose the PS4S for its traction formula but it has threw off the feel and made it too soft and now am looking for new springs next year.

Not small differences at all, the car on RFTs could not hold up to a half day of AutoX, let alone a day of HPDE. The increase of slip angle by even a 10th of a degree has a large impact on cornering.

DVC · 12-03-2018, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

Tire dependent really. You have to see how they react after a run or two and adjust appropriately. There's a thread in this section somewhere

Agreed. I run RE-71Rs (265/35-18 square) and generally shoot for 36-38psi hot... so depending on ambient temp, I typically start at 30-32psi cold.

jmg · 12-05-2018, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicBlaster

Suggestions on tire pressure? Default cold temps are front 32 and rear 38 - thinking about lowering them by 2 each.

I'm still a beginner, but I've been told 38 cold is too much cold. After your warm up laps you want to be below 40 psi. Your onboard TPMS can be very handy, I leave it on while lapping.

simonelwell · 12-07-2018, 06:19 PM

I tracked my 440i for the first time recently - the run flats had plenty of grip although I'm sure if I got much faster I'd find their limits. One thing I noticed was that after 5-6 hard laps my (stock) brakes started to fade and times started going up.
Sport +; transmission in manual (ie on the paddles); AC off;
The BMW app is awesome by the way - don't try and interact with it on the track - just hit record in the pit lane and let it do its thing...

N420i · 12-10-2018, 04:38 AM

I have a manual on non-adaptive shocks so no suspension or shifting changes for me depending on drive mode.

I tend to keep it on Sport+, so DSC partially off. I find it keeps me smoother with my inputs since mashing the throttle will cause the DSC to cut in killing acceleration out of corners. Plus I like the quicker throttle response.

Having said that, if I'm REALLY going for it, It's DSC off all the way. The slow throttle bothers me, but I do find the eLSD somewhat useful. However at my local track there are a couple of 90+ 100+mph corners that demand total commitment and they will make the DSC light up like a chirstmas tree, so in DSC off mode it can be somewhat unnerving knowing that if you mess up there aren't any nannies to catch the tail and going off track at 90mph is bound to make you real close and personal with the barriers...

So yeah, I'd probably start with the nannies enabled and if you find you're comfortable, switch them off progressively.

nissanite · 12-10-2018, 09:22 AM

I am an instructor and have been racing or DE since the early 80's.
I also have been a UHP education specialist for Bridgestone. I have seen hundreds of driver and tires at the track.

If you drive without activating DSC then leave it on for emergencies. If you are getting slip,turn to Sport+ and be cautious. Overdriving with DSC on will cause extra load on the outside edge of the front tires and eat the shoulder off in a day.

The nannies will mask a lot of driving skill deficiencies and you will learn more with it off. Just use caution and work your way up to speed.

PS. The slightly stiffer sidewall of a RF gives more support in the corner. Grip is compound dependent.

11-26-2018, 11:31 AM	#1
ToxicBlaster New Member 7 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 428i Join Date: May 2018 Location: Melbourne, FL iTrader: (0)	Sport+ for Trackday? Heading to Sebring in December. What setup do you guys run with? DSC off? Sport + with M/S? I'm a novice driver and safety is more important to me than squeezing out a few extra seconds. Thanks!
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11-28-2018, 12:58 AM	#2
Solidjake ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 945 Rep 1,762 Posts Drives: '13 328i Msport 6MT Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NYC/SNJ iTrader: (2)	Sport, keep your traction on since you're a novice especially if you've never been to the track before. The last turn has A LOT of bumps and turning off traction will really put you at risk of losing control. __________________ Tensioner/belt DIY \| Side skirt extension DIY Apex SM-10/DWS06+ \| 400m/X-ice Xi3 \| Injen Exhaust \| Stoptech SS Lines \| 335 Front Brakes Hawk HPS 5.0 \| RBF600 \| ER Charge Pipes \| Wagner Evo Comp 2 FMIC
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11-28-2018, 08:55 AM	#3
MacklinUSOB Captain 518 Rep 891 Posts Drives: f30 328i 6MT Sport Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Connecticut iTrader: (0)	Sebring is famously rough so definitely keep everything on for your first visit, but that's for any first visit to any track. I never was a fan of sport mode, have found it too sensitive to modulate to my liking. I always run comfort with dynamic stability on track. __________________ 328i RWD \| MW on CRed Slick Top \| 6MT \| BM3 \| MPE \| GPlus FMIC \| CSF Radiator \| Millway Street Camber Plates & Monoballs \| KW V2 6k/18k Swift Springs \| F80 LCA/TS \| SPL Bump Steer Kit \| APEX SM-10 \| R-S4 \| DS2500 \| RBF600 \| SS Lines \| Past: E36 328is & E38 740i
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11-29-2018, 08:08 AM	#4
ToxicBlaster New Member 7 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 428i Join Date: May 2018 Location: Melbourne, FL iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the tips! This is my second Sebring event. The first time I ran in Sport mode and "D" with a fully stock 428. I have made some modifications as I hated the brake performance. Changed the run flats to Indy 500's (245/40/16 all around), CoolCarbon Brake Pads, Motul RBF660 brake fluid, Remus Quad Exhaust, BMS Stage 1 Tune, and a front bumper M4 conversion with a front lip for that extra 50 whp Will post some pics after the event.
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11-30-2018, 01:52 AM	#10
97supratt Second Lieutenant 99 Rep 275 Posts Drives: porsche and mercedes Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: La crescenta CA iTrader: (5)	Personally I dislike traction control but that's all upto you. __________________ 15' Porsche 911S / 21' AMG GT53 /19' G05 MWP M sport
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12-01-2018, 08:26 PM	#14
ToxicBlaster New Member 7 Rep 9 Posts Drives: 428i Join Date: May 2018 Location: Melbourne, FL iTrader: (0)	Suggestions on tire pressure? Default cold temps are front 32 and rear 38 - thinking about lowering them by 2 each.
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12-07-2018, 06:19 PM	#20
simonelwell Private First Class 56 Rep 103 Posts Drives: X5 (G05) 30d M Sport Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Essex, England iTrader: (0)	I tracked my 440i for the first time recently - the run flats had plenty of grip although I'm sure if I got much faster I'd find their limits. One thing I noticed was that after 5-6 hard laps my (stock) brakes started to fade and times started going up. Sport +; transmission in manual (ie on the paddles); AC off; The BMW app is awesome by the way - don't try and interact with it on the track - just hit record in the pit lane and let it do its thing...
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12-10-2018, 04:38 AM	#21
N420i Private First Class 72 Rep 192 Posts Drives: 2016 420i lightly modded Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Madrid iTrader: (0)	I have a manual on non-adaptive shocks so no suspension or shifting changes for me depending on drive mode. I tend to keep it on Sport+, so DSC partially off. I find it keeps me smoother with my inputs since mashing the throttle will cause the DSC to cut in killing acceleration out of corners. Plus I like the quicker throttle response. Having said that, if I'm REALLY going for it, It's DSC off all the way. The slow throttle bothers me, but I do find the eLSD somewhat useful. However at my local track there are a couple of 90+ 100+mph corners that demand total commitment and they will make the DSC light up like a chirstmas tree, so in DSC off mode it can be somewhat unnerving knowing that if you mess up there aren't any nannies to catch the tail and going off track at 90mph is bound to make you real close and personal with the barriers... So yeah, I'd probably start with the nannies enabled and if you find you're comfortable, switch them off progressively.
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12-10-2018, 09:22 AM	#22
nissanite Private 46 Rep 68 Posts Drives: 340i M-sport Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Florida iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 BMW 340i [0.00]	I am an instructor and have been racing or DE since the early 80's. I also have been a UHP education specialist for Bridgestone. I have seen hundreds of driver and tires at the track. If you drive without activating DSC then leave it on for emergencies. If you are getting slip,turn to Sport+ and be cautious. Overdriving with DSC on will cause extra load on the outside edge of the front tires and eat the shoulder off in a day. The nannies will mask a lot of driving skill deficiencies and you will learn more with it off. Just use caution and work your way up to speed. PS. The slightly stiffer sidewall of a RF gives more support in the corner. Grip is compound dependent.
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