[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by eluded

I have the standard F 30 LEDs and they suck. They are just aimed too low and they're auto adjusting. I would mention this to the BMW dealer next time it's in for maintenance but I'm sure they'll break something in the process of diagnosing it.

Yes, the base LEDs are set too low from the factory, but the non adaptive LEDs are not self leveling as I understand. The dealer has adjusted them at least twice for me. They are much better now. I would suggest you have them take a look or adjust yourself possibly.

The first time they adjusted them they were blinding all uncoming traffic and I got flashed by half the oncoming drivers I passed. Now they light up the road much better than they did, but I do not seem to be disturbing oncoming drivers - so it looks to be a fine line I guess.

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by pbwatson

Hi

I have factory halogens without halo's. Didn't even realize it til after I bought the car, I assumes all BMW's came with halo's. anyway I recently bought some ebay headlight housings to replace mine & am wondering if I should go with LED replacement bulbs or halogens. Main concern is downroad visibility (how far & how well I can see at night) secondary concern/preference is color temp looking for a white light probably about 6,000k. Have LED's gotten to a point yet that they can compete with or perform better than top shelf halogens like sylvania?

If you have any specific brand/bulb to recommend please do so

Attachment 1721160

Xenons seem to get the best comments from actual users! My standard F30 LEDs are adequate on full beam but far from adequate when dipped!! I seem to remember the xenons on my e92 being far better... I'm sure the G20 will get improved LEDs but we'll have to wait and see!

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

Yes, the base LEDs are set too low from the factory, but the non adaptive LEDs are not self leveling as I understand. The dealer has adjusted them at least twice for me. They are much better now. I would suggest you have them take a look or adjust yourself possibly.

The first time they adjusted them they were blinding all uncoming traffic and I got flashed by half the oncoming drivers I passed. Now they light up the road much better than they did, but I do not seem to be disturbing oncoming drivers - so it looks to be a fine line I guess.

This is the main problem it seems... getting the best road lighting you can possibly get without blinding everyone else in the process!! When I'm driving at night the difference between the dazzle from oncoming cars is huge, with some not dazzling me at all, right through the spectrum to getting totally blinded! It's a real problem it seems.

[Gabreigns]

I have 2014 with HID and a 2016 with LED. HID seems better on wide variety of situations and hence is a better choice between the 2 for me.
The difference is the projector lens vs the reflector housing. An equivalent LED behind a focused projector will have a better light throw than it being in a reflector housing. Similar for an HID as well. I think HID seems better because of it being in a projector lens housing and hence the beam is focused. On an LED the light intensity needs to be focused than a distracting wide spread and then darkness a few yards ahead. HID is focused thanks to the projector lens to get a better down road visibility.
Hopefully G20 will have better optics by placing the LED in a projector housing for a very focused and deliberate pattern.
I sometimes think that the new corollas with LED behind a glass projector lens do a better job at light output because of this reason than the newer LED BMWs

[kabrichx]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

The maximum lumens output from halogens is around 1500. LED are at least double that. I know, because I measured them:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1377259

Link does not say how you measured. How did you test and what were the testing procedures if someone wanted to duplicate?

[B58 parts]

I have the LEDs and the problem is when going down a hill I can't see more than 10 feet I'm front of me. They need to aim up more all the time and especially up when the nose is pointed down.

They look nice but the hids on my last car were better lights...

[pbwatson]

Well the light housings arrived today, for anyone interested they are manufactured by Sonar (Tiawan) quality looks good out of the box, cant speak to fit yet.

Re. original question "halogen vs. LED?" the answer seems to be HID. I already knew this, everybody knows this. But if HID isn't an option, then which? Given the lack of clarity I'll most likely go with 4,000k halogens & revisit the subject in a couple years

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by pbwatson

Given the lack of clarity I'll most likely go with 4,000k halogens

Color temperature is only that, the light color. Where light output is concerned H7 halogens top out around 1500 lumens, while H7 LEDs run at least twice that. There's no such thing as 4k halogens, they run around 2.5k. Bulbs that claim a higher temperature imitate it with tinted envelopes, which also reduces lumens output.

[kabrichx]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Color temperature is only that, the light color. Where light output is concerned H7 halogens top out around 1500 lumens, while H7 LEDs run at least twice that. There's no such thing as 4k halogens, they run around 2.5k. Bulbs that claim a higher temperature imitate it with tinted envelopes, which also reduces lumens output.

Again, what did you use to measure and what parameters?

[ali820]

Originally Posted by kabrichx

Halogens were revolutionary in the 70s when they replaced incandescent.

This Century they fail all the Highway Safety test.

HID Xenons blow them away as do SOME LEDs, though the F30 Standard LEDs also perform poorly on the safety tests.

Agreed! The adaptive Xenons are the best for providing ample light down road when comparing OEM options!

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by kabrichx

Again, what did you use to measure and what parameters?

I used a light meter. It ain't rocket science.

[kabrichx]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I used a light meter. It ain't rocket science.

Which light meter?

When was it last calibrated.

What distance from lights did you test?

[Gabreigns]

And were these variables independent, dependent or controlled?

[Kafkaesque328]

Originally Posted by metallicpea

Practically speaking, the best consistent downroad lighting seems to be HID. LED seem to have potential, but still some issues with execution. Mostly they are a selling feature and make the car nice to look at and less expensive to manufacture then HID.

I have factory LED - non adaptive, and they are not even close to the best headlights I have had on a car.

But they blow away the F30 halogens. I had those on my 320 and I would prob still be driving that car if it weren't for those godforsaken headlights.

[dsc888]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

But they blow away the F30 halogens. I had those on my 320 and I would prob still be driving that car if it weren't for those godforsaken headlights.

Halogens have NO PLACE in a 2017! Except for the fact that it allows car manufacturers to hit a price point, the owner pays a huge price in safety with this now antiquated lighting technology. If a Toyota can put them into a Corolla with projectors housings years ago, then it's downright a travesty BMW still puts them in any of their cars.

[ali820]

Originally Posted by dsc888

Halogens have NO PLACE in a 2017! Except for the fact that it allows car manufacturers to hit a price point, the owner pays a huge price in safety with this now antiquated lighting technology. If a Toyota can put them into a Corolla with projectors housings years ago, then it's downright a travesty BMW still puts them in any of their cars.

Even Corollas come with LEDs.

[x5mannn]

Can anyone tell me if my lights are aligned properly? Them seem to point upwards
See the photo [IMG][/IMG]

[Gabreigns]

Originally Posted by x5mannn

Can anyone tell me if my lights are aligned properly? Them seem to point upwards
See the photo [IMG][/IMG]

Is that the high beam? Those seem way too high for low beams.

[kabrichx]

Originally Posted by Gabreigns

And were these variables independent, dependent or controlled?

Given Billfitz misinformation in the other post that defy the laws of physics and his refusal to give any info, I seriously doubt he measured the units as he claims.

Originally Posted by Billfitz

From my original post:
I did measure the light output with a meter. The headlights are about twice that of the stock halogens, the fog lights three times the halogens, and the color is pure white. No yellow, no blue. The beam pattern is the same.

It is impossible to produce white without Blue (or Yellow)

If one takes the blue spectrum in the 465nm spectrum and the light shifts yellow in the 570nm spectrum. Remove the Yellow out and the light shifts Blue, as can be seen on the attached picture.

Of course, that contradicts his statements that totally that defy physics.

The only way to measure the light spectrum for color in 1nm segments would be a RadioSpectrometer, which start at around $20,000 each. Not something that a speaker designer would have laying around.

Secondly, the light output in front of the car depends on multiple factors.

Having done considerable tests when the OEM LED v HID v Halogen question first arose about 3 years ago, the lumens vary very dramatically with a movement of the test meter a few mm directly in front of the car. You can spend literally hours attempting to find the hot spot.

That’s if you even have the proper equipment for testing properly.

But testing several inches in front of the headlight really does not tell you what you really need to know - which is illumination at a distance.

Without a very controlled environment devoid of any other light and the distance needed, coupled with his lack of response to the questions, make it very questionable his claim of testing....especially when he defies physics in his statements.

For reference before someone asks, the lower the Kelvin, the larger the wavelength.

Likewise, the higher the Kelvin, the smaller the wavelength.

That explains Yellow lights at 2500K and Blue light much higher K.

Before asking “but there is no White”, White is a MIX of Primary Colors RGB (or Secondary YCM).

That explains why his statements of “No Blue. No Yellow” defy physics as white light needs a combination of all 3, residing roughly at 6500K

[Billfitz]

I've learned through experience how to recognize a troll, where the poster seems to be asking a legitimate question with good intent, but in reality is only interested in arguing, the only goal being the stoking of his ego. I don't feed trolls. I do add them to my ignore list, so don't bother trying to goad me into your game, I won't see anything you post.

[kabrichx]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

I've learned through experience how to recognize a troll, where the poster seems to be asking a legitimate question with good intent, but in reality is only interested in arguing, the only goal being the stoking of his ego. I don't feed trolls. I do add them to my ignore list, so don't bother trying to goad me into your game, I won't see anything you post.

People who post BS that they have tested something they haven’t and making claims that are scientifically impossible are those I tend to ignore.

The reason you didn’t respond was you knew your posts on the subject were BS.

Guess you won’t see this though...only people who learned the King has no clothes.

[metallicpea]

Originally Posted by kabrichx

People who post BS that they have tested something they haven’t and making claims that are scientifically impossible are those I tend to ignore.

The reason you didn’t respond was you knew your posts on the subject were BS.

Guess you won’t see this though...only people who learned the King has no clothes.

I know Bill's work. He is detail oriented and a man of science. I would give him the benefit of the doubt.