[Logicoeur]

From what I can see from photos of the turbo, the exhaust housing is integrated into the manifold.

If anyone were to use a larger turbine they'd either have to produce their own manifold, as well. Their other option would be to somehow remove some material off of the inside of the manifold housing the turbine. The latter doesn't look to be easy at all, from either end of the manifold. So, with that, producing a manifold to go with the turbine seems like a more appropriate way to tackle the problem.

That then becomes a much larger investment as far as R&D, and will really start cutting into most businesses' margins. If it was one of the M cars that'd be a much different story as far as chances of making a good ROI. No one believes in the f30 market that much, yet. These cars would have to really come down in price to be a safer bet for the market players that are around to really even attempt something like this.

And so we are only seeing compressor side upgrades for now.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

From what I can see from photos of the turbo, the exhaust housing is integrated into the manifold.

If anyone were to use a larger turbine they'd either have to produce their own manifold, as well. Their other option would be to somehow remove some material off of the inside of the manifold housing the turbine. The latter doesn't look to be easy at all, from either end of the manifold. So, with that, producing a manifold to go with the turbine seems like a more appropriate way to tackle the problem.

That then becomes a much larger investment as far as R&D, and will really start cutting into most businesses' margins. If it was one of the M cars that'd be a much different story as far as chances of making a good ROI. No one believes in the f30 market that much, yet. These cars would have to really come down in price to be a safer bet for the market players that are around to really even attempt something like this.

And so we are only seeing compressor side upgrades for now.

Nah big Stage 2 turbos such as PS2, TTE550 and SteamSpeed all utilize the stock "turbofold" assembly with much larger turbines and machined out turbine housings. I'm saying there is a large step up from a stock turbine to these turbines. Something around half way in between would be great.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Nah big Stage 2 turbos such as PS2, TTE550 and SteamSpeed all utilize the stock "turbofold" assembly with much larger turbines and machined out turbine housings. I'm saying there is a large step up from a stock turbine to these turbines. Something around half way in between would be great.

Got it. Didn't realize they modified the hot side at all. I believed them all to be like the Dinan "big turbo". Good to know

What kind of power do you think this smaller stage 2 should make?

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

What kind of power do you think this smaller stage 2 should make?

I don't really like comparing turbos by how much power they make if you push them to their absolute limit. I'm in Australia and our dyno numbers are very different but let's just say 430whp on a dynojet, but with less exhaust back pressure, less boost needed to make it, more torque while building boost and more timing possible than existing Stage 1 turbos.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I don't really like comparing turbos by how much power they make if you push them to their absolute limit. I'm in Australia and our dyno numbers are very different but let's just say 430whp on a dynojet, but with less exhaust back pressure, less boost needed to make it, more torque while building boost and more timing possible than existing Stage 1 turbos.

Yes, I understand area under the curve,peak power and turbo efficiency.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Nah big Stage 2 turbos such as PS2, TTE550 and SteamSpeed all utilize the stock "turbofold" assembly with much larger turbines and machined out turbine housings. I'm saying there is a large step up from a stock turbine to these turbines. Something around half way in between would be great.

The stock turbofold is junk, by the end of this year companies are coming out with newer bigger cast exhaust manifolds ,independent turbine housings that are more efficient than the stock junk. N55s using these stock modified after market stock setups with bigger wheels are a straight compromise. The turbo kits coming out will have better bigger better flowing wheels and also have ewg. It’s coming very very soon and is in the works. Claims of 450 to 600whp are not unheard of for these offerings that are coming.

Similar stuff is coming out for the f80 M3s as well which will rid them of their turbofolds.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The stock turbofold is junk, by the end of this year companies are coming out with newer bigger cast exhaust manifolds ,independent turbine housings that are more efficient than the stock junk. N55s using these stock modified after market stock setups with bigger wheels are a straight compromise. The turbo kits coming out will have better bigger better flowing wheels and also have ewg. It’s coming very very soon and is in the works. Claims of 450 to 600whp are not unheard of for these offerings that are coming.

Similar stuff is coming out for the f80 M3s as well which will rid them of their turbofolds.

Stock turbofold is actually excellent for the turbo size I'm after. The double thin walls is excellent for heat retention. Bolt in and 100% stock appearing is a plus too. RHD compatible. That's why I made this thread. I agree PS2 etc is a lot bigger than ideal for stock housings but you can go a little bigger than stock before efficiency etc goes downhill.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Stock turbofold is actually excellent for the turbo size I'm after. The double thin walls is excellent for heat retention. Bolt in and 100% stock appearing is a plus too. RHD compatible. That's why I made this thread. I agree PS2 etc is a lot bigger than ideal for stock housings but you can go a little bigger than stock before efficiency etc goes downhill.

The stock turbo will perform better with a properly setup bigger runner manifold like what is on the B58 motor. The zB58 also has a bigger BW setup allowing the 340/440 run better and stronger stock vs stock 3 series.

[BMW DIY Guy]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The stock turbofold is junk, by the end of this year companies are coming out with newer bigger cast exhaust manifolds ,independent turbine housings that are more efficient than the stock junk. N55s using these stock modified after market stock setups with bigger wheels are a straight compromise. The turbo kits coming out will have better bigger better flowing wheels and also have ewg. It’s coming very very soon and is in the works. Claims of 450 to 600whp are not unheard of for these offerings that are coming.

Similar stuff is coming out for the f80 M3s as well which will rid them of their turbofolds.

*drool* Yes please.. I frickin LOVE the path my car has taken and very shortly will run into turbo change being the next "logical" upgrade.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The stock turbo will perform better with a properly setup bigger runner manifold like what is on the B58 motor. The zB58 also has a bigger BW setup allowing the 340/440 run better and stronger stock vs stock 3 series.

Of course they run better. Their turbine wheel is a little bigger. That's what I want lol. B58 has a Bosch/Mahle turbo. Manifold difference is negligible. It's the bigger turbine and possibly a slightly bigger compressor.

[ceedawg]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Of course they run better. Their turbine wheel is a little bigger. That's what I want lol. B58 has a Bosch/Mahle turbo. Manifold difference is negligible. It's the bigger turbine and possibly a slightly bigger compressor.

We agree it is a bigger turbo and from the drawings I've seen the stock B58 turbofold is way way better designed and bigger than the stock N55 turbofold. I saw nothing debatable about that fact. To me it's the whole combo. Bigger turbo and better designed exh manifold . All reducing backpressure.

[zinner]

Maybe you could just ask Pure to make you a Stage 1.5? I dunno why they wouldn't do it? maybe it's a lot of effort to source and test different parts for a 1.5?

[EvenKeel]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I mentioned a few times that boost threshold is not the main issue. It's transient response mostly.

I simply want the right turbo for my needs. A ~5mm bigger turbine and a ~3mm bigger than EWG compressor (~8mm bigger than PWG) would be pretty spot on. There is a very big jump between stock turbine and PS2 and an in between option would be really great for a lot of people's needs. I don't really get what's hard to understand about that.

I'm pretty close to just buying a used EWG turbo and MEVD172G and considering it close enough. Not ideal but better than what I have and with EWG, it's easier to tune and I can use a MPPK tune as a starting point.

Is the stock turbocharger different on PWG vs. EWG cars?

[lens]

Originally Posted by EvenKeel

Is the stock turbocharger different on PWG vs. EWG cars?

Yes, the compressor is bigger on EWG.

[SeanWRT]

OP you made an excellent point. Those here commenting against you, are already the users of PS2, which is a little laggier than many like. I experienced more N55 turbos than the most - PWG, EWG, STG1, STG2 (TTE460, PS2, G Power). I can tell these turbo responds SIGNIFICANTLY different.

The laggiest is of course the PS2 (full spooled at 3k5~4k depending on gear, provided targeting 18psi), which also arguably makes the most power.

You're right, people like MOST power. Some of them just don't know what they're missing. Or have a selective memory when they become an owner already.

I have the G Power, the best N55 hybrid turbo (in my opinion) that's ever available, yet I admit responsiveness is lost a bit. From log, it's a 300~400rpm delay in full spool on 3rd gear. And it can be felt on the road if you look for it. Yet it's the best mod I've ever had.

The logs (same map, same condition, almost back to back) shows PS2 is 500~800 laggier on 3rd gear than my turbo. Which means 800-1000 rpm delay in spool compared to EWG stock. It's a DAY AND NIGHT difference.

Depending on traffic situation, many can ignore turbo lag. On track, of course lag is even much less of an issue. But with daily driving, more traffic you have, more critical it is to have less lag.

I remember we had this conversation before. You seem to hold strong reservation about "clip" type of turbine, which in my real world experience, isn't bad at all. TTE460 is responsive, so is the G Power of mine. PS2 does go a bit too far and is laggier. For what it costs, TTE460 should be your best option I guarantee your satisfaction.

[ICantDrive4Sht]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

OP you made an excellent point. Those here commenting against you, are already the users of PS2, which is a little laggier than many like. I experienced more N55 turbos than the most - PWG, EWG, STG1, STG2 (TTE460, PS2, G Power). I can tell these turbo responds SIGNIFICANTLY different.

The laggiest is of course the PS2 (full spooled at 3k5~4k depending on gear, provided targeting 18psi), which also arguably makes the most power.

You're right, people like MOST power. Some of them just don't know what they're missing. Or have a selective memory when they become an owner already.

I have the G Power, the best N55 hybrid turbo (in my opinion) that's ever available, yet I admit responsiveness is lost a bit. From log, it's a 300~400rpm delay in full spool on 3rd gear. And it can be felt on the road if you look for it. Yet it's the best mod I've ever had.

The logs (same map, same condition, almost back to back) shows PS2 is 500~800 laggier on 3rd gear than my turbo. Which means 800-1000 rpm delay in spool compared to EWG stock. It's a DAY AND NIGHT difference.

Depending on traffic situation, many can ignore turbo lag. On track, of course lag is even much less of an issue. But with daily driving, more traffic you have, more critical it is to have less lag.

I remember we had this conversation before. You seem to hold strong reservation about "clip" type of turbine, which in my real world experience, isn't bad at all. TTE460 is responsive, so is the G Power of mine. PS2 does go a bit too far and is laggier. For what it costs, TTE460 should be your best option I guarantee your satisfaction.

Thanks Sean.

I'll most likely upgrade to TTE460 next year, hope it rocks

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

OP you made an excellent point. Those here commenting against you, are already the users of PS2, which is a little laggier than many like. I experienced more N55 turbos than the most - PWG, EWG, STG1, STG2 (TTE460, PS2, G Power). I can tell these turbo responds SIGNIFICANTLY different.

The laggiest is of course the PS2 (full spooled at 3k5~4k depending on gear, provided targeting 18psi), which also arguably makes the most power.

You're right, people like MOST power. Some of them just don't know what they're missing. Or have a selective memory when they become an owner already.

I have the G Power, the best N55 hybrid turbo (in my opinion) that's ever available, yet I admit responsiveness is lost a bit. From log, it's a 300~400rpm delay in full spool on 3rd gear. And it can be felt on the road if you look for it. Yet it's the best mod I've ever had.

The logs (same map, same condition, almost back to back) shows PS2 is 500~800 laggier on 3rd gear than my turbo. Which means 800-1000 rpm delay in spool compared to EWG stock. It's a DAY AND NIGHT difference.

Depending on traffic situation, many can ignore turbo lag. On track, of course lag is even much less of an issue. But with daily driving, more traffic you have, more critical it is to have less lag.

I remember we had this conversation before. You seem to hold strong reservation about "clip" type of turbine, which in my real world experience, isn't bad at all. TTE460 is responsive, so is the G Power of mine. PS2 does go a bit too far and is laggier. For what it costs, TTE460 should be your best option I guarantee your satisfaction.

You mention that you believe G Power is best out there. How do they compare to the Garrett’s?

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by ceedawg

The stock turbofold is junk, by the end of this year companies are coming out with newer bigger cast exhaust manifolds ,independent turbine housings that are more efficient than the stock junk. N55s using these stock modified after market stock setups with bigger wheels are a straight compromise. The turbo kits coming out will have better bigger better flowing wheels and also have ewg. It's coming very very soon and is in the works. Claims of 450 to 600whp are not unheard of for these offerings that are coming.

Similar stuff is coming out for the f80 M3s as well which will rid them of their turbofolds.

What's the latest on this? U mentioned by the end of the year, where did u hear this?

I am in the same boat as the OP, I don't want/need ps2 but also feel like ps1 is not worth the cost for the minimal gains only between 5500-7000rpm. Surely there must be a better in between solution in the works somewhere

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by akgambino

What's the latest on this? U mentioned by the end of the year, where did u hear this?

I am in the same boat as the OP, I don't want/need ps2 but also feel like ps1 is not worth the cost for the minimal gains only between 5500-7000rpm. Surely there must be a better in between solution in the works somewhere

The end of year single turbo he was counting on came out at a price close to $4,000 for parts alone. They are not shipping yet either. They claim shipping in Q1 now.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

The end of year single turbo he was counting on came out at a price close to $4,000 for parts alone. They are not shipping yet either. They claimshipping in Q1 now.

$4K?! I suppose it either comes with its own
manifold?

[bradsm87]

There are turbines that appear to be suitable already out there eg. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MAMBA-9-...7/173460084348

Hopefully someone comes to the table with something. I'm still just leaving mine stock at the moment but hating it.

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

There are turbines that appear to be suitable already out there eg. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MAMBA-9-...7/173460084348

Hopefully someone comes to the table with something. I'm still just leaving mine stock at the moment but hating it.

That looks like it would pair well with the pure stage 1 compressor wheel for a nice setup. Too bad nobody will ever make a setup like that for us lol and if they did it would prolly be $2k