[5w20]

You still had a major HPFP pressure drop.

I'm starting to think the e70 or fueling issue that some people were having wasn't because of the lpfp, but instead because of the vacuum lift pump. Then again, I believe jq555 runs a spool fx180, not sure if he had any issues tuning that but he runs full E85.

Dorch stage 1 & 2 pumps are direct fit, so this has me thinking why wouldn't it be able to be installed with any other HPFP, or even the stock one? Maybe the spring on the stock HPFP is too soft (and not knowing any spring specs to any of the aftermarket pumps)? I'm wondering if it would cause issues similar to valve float in OHV engines when the camshaft is too aggressive for the valve spring.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by 5w20

You still had a major HPFP pressure drop.

I'm starting to think the e70 or fueling issue that some people were having wasn't because of the lpfp, but instead because of the vacuum lift pump. Then again, I believe jq555 runs a spool fx180, not sure if he had any issues tuning that but he runs full E85.

Dorch stage 1 & 2 pumps are direct fit, so this has me thinking why wouldn't it be able to be installed with any other HPFP, or even the stock one? Maybe the spring on the stock HPFP is too soft (and not knowing any spring specs to any of the aftermarket pumps)? I'm wondering if it would cause issues similar to valve float in OHV engines when the camshaft is too aggressive for the valve spring.

Xdi spoke about pump piston float.

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=24680607

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 5w20

You still had a major HPFP pressure drop.

I'm starting to think the e70 or fueling issue that some people were having wasn't because of the lpfp, but instead because of the vacuum lift pump. Then again, I believe jq555 runs a spool fx180, not sure if he had any issues tuning that but he runs full E85.

Dorch stage 1 & 2 pumps are direct fit, so this has me thinking why wouldn't it be able to be installed with any other HPFP, or even the stock one? Maybe the spring on the stock HPFP is too soft (and not knowing any spring specs to any of the aftermarket pumps)? I'm wondering if it would cause issues similar to valve float in OHV engines when the camshaft is too aggressive for the valve spring.

There could be numerous reasons why they show it as incompatible with the OEM pumps, perhaps even they dont want people just buying the lift kit lol? I thought they sell a lift kit for S55 that is designed to work with OEM pumps, but isnt the S55 just two N55 pumps? I don't personally know, haven't dug into the HPFP details enough. But it seems like the easiest/cheapest way to increase HPFP capacity (at least by a reasonable margin like up to "stage 1" levels) would be to just have a lift kit on the OEM pump. But, AFAIK one does not exist for the N55. This could also, in theory, allow you to retain OEM software, especially since it seems people run the B58TU with no tuning required.

And yeah, i have also heard of a few people supposedly running full E85 tunes with FX180s, but who knows what E% that "full E85" is and theres little to no datalogs on it, especially with corresponding E%

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

There could be numerous reasons why they show it as incompatible with the OEM pumps, perhaps even they dont want people just buying the lift kit lol? I thought they sell a lift kit for S55 that is designed to work with OEM pumps, but isnt the S55 just two N55 pumps? I don't personally know, haven't dug into the HPFP details enough. But it seems like the easiest/cheapest way to increase HPFP capacity (at least by a reasonable margin like up to "stage 1" levels) would be to just have a lift kit on the OEM pump. But, AFAIK one does not exist for the N55. This could also, in theory, allow you to retain OEM software, especially since it seems people run the B58TU with no tuning required.

And yeah, i have also heard of a few people supposedly running full E85 tunes with FX180s, but who knows what E% that "full E85" is and theres little to no datalogs on it, especially with corresponding E%

N55 vacuum pump cam is 3x4.7mm lobe . S55 vacuum pump cam is 3x4.0mm lobe x 2 hpfp. My speculation is that the lift kit for S55 doesn't have to increase the lift all that much to get that 38 percent capacity bump since there's 2 hpfp. With the n55, starting at 4.7, increaaing that lift could risk piston float as someone mentioned earlier. It's possible the dorch stg1 hpfp has a stiffer spring to compensate.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

N55 vacuum pump cam is 3x4.7mm lobe . S55 vacuum pump cam is 3x4.0mm lobe x 2 hpfp. My speculation is that the lift kit for S55 doesn't have to increase the lift all that much to get that 38 percent capacity bump since there's 2 hpfp. With the n55, starting at 4.7, increaaing that lift could risk piston float as someone mentioned earlier. It's possible the dorch stg1 hpfp has a stiffer spring to compensate.

Yeah i started to skim the article linked above later on and saw those differences between N55 and S55. It also sounded like you could retrofit the S55 dual pump to the N55 lol.

[ZM2]

Hey guys.

So, after all the logs, have you been able to determine that the Stg 2+ Multimap will scale properly bn the Stg 2+ Exx map and the Stg 2 93 map simply based on your ethanol content when using an ethanol sensor?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Hey guys.

So, after all the logs, have you been able to determine that the Stg 2+ Multimap will scale properly bn the Stg 2+ Exx map and the Stg 2 93 map simply based on your ethanol content when using an ethanol sensor?

He hasn't tried the stage 2+ map with pure pump gas, which would be needed to confirm it "scales back" when there's little to no ethanol in the tank.

He hasnt logged in a while because the test 2 map was terrible and it caused a really bad HPFP crash and the car wouldn't start afterwards for a while.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

He hasn't tried the stage 2+ map with pure pump gas, which would be needed to confirm it "scales back" when there's little to no ethanol in the tank.

He hasnt logged in a while because the test 2 map was terrible and it caused a really bad HPFP crash and the car wouldn't start afterwards for a while.

The base tune of the MultiMap Stage2+ is E30 so I assume that it should only be designed to scale back from E85 to E30.

However the MultiMap Stage2 is designed to toggle with the steering wheel buttons between base maps of 91ACN, 91 and 93. So that should scale back from E85 all the way to 91ACN.

Right now that's the FlexFuel map that I am running with E24 in the tank. After I had trouble with the Test2 map, once I got it started then I filled up right away with 93 octane. Temperatures were dropping into the 30's overnight. I was afraid that I'd have trouble starting it in the cold with E78.

Based on cold starting issues with E78 when air temperatures are in the low 40's, I won't run more than E50 this winter. I could go down to E30 or even just 93. We'll see.

The consensus is that my new month old Precision Raceworks LPFP with Walbro 535 may be slightly out of spec so they are shipping another under warranty. Hopefully that will fix the issue so that I can run the remaining logs with E85.

[ZM2]

Got it.

So, install an ethanol sensor, run the stage 2+ Multimap, let it auto adjust based on Emix, and use fast map switching when running 93.

I guess that’s not too bad of a way to do it.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Got it.

So, install an ethanol sensor, run the stage 2+ Multimap, let it auto adjust based on Emix, and use fast map switching when running 93.

I guess that's not too bad of a way to do it.

The MultiMap Stage2+ only has an E30 base tune. So you can't run pump gas on it. No lower than E30 mix.

Gotta run MultiMap Stage2 which can go all the way up to E85, but at the bottom end you can switch between three base tunes: 91ACN, 91 or 93 octane.

[ZM2]

Apologies if I’m rehashing already presented info, or maybe it’s different for the M2? From the below pic, it looks like I can do what I mentioned?

[n55david]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Apologies if I’m rehashing already presented info, or maybe it’s different for the M2? From the below pic, it looks like I can do what I mentioned?

not the same for the 335 etc

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Apologies if I’m rehashing already presented info, or maybe it’s different for the M2? From the below pic, it looks like I can do what I mentioned?

Mystery Solved! The map list is different for the N55 EWG MultiMap Stage2 and MultiMap Stage2+.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Apologies if I'm rehashing already presented info, or maybe it's different for the M2? From the below pic, it looks like I can do what I mentioned?

The two attached photos illustrate what I was saying for the Bootmod3 MultiMap tunes for the F30 335i N55 EWG.

Apparently BootMod3 for some reason has different switchable tunes grouped together for your M2 and for my F30 N55 EWG.

I actually prefer yours. To run with less than E30 in the tank I have to flash to the MultiMap Stage2 which has base tunes for as low as 91ACN, 91 and 93.

Ideally I would like to have a MultiMap Stage2+ tune with:

1: 91ACN
2: 91
3: 93
4: E30

This would provide me with the flexibility to never have to reflash the entire tune between MM Stage2 and MM Stage2+. I have an E85 station down the street. But if they are temporarily out or their E85 pump is broken (which has happened) then I have to fill with 93 octane. Or if I'm traveling in the surrounding states, they might not have E85 or quality 93, so I might need to switch down to a 91 or even a 91ACN tune.

BootMod3 does say that a custom tuner can change the tunes in the switchable maps. I just wish that this setup above came from them off the shelf.

FYI- I've noticed, what has been reported elsewhere, that running E85 as the temperature drops into the 40's Fahrenheit, the car has some difficulty starting. So for winter I intend to run lower concentrations of ethanol. I'll drop it down to E50 and if that still labors when starting I will drop to E30. The 93 Octane in my state is all E10, but I could run E15 if I want to give it an octane boost and guard against a weak batch of 93, which has happened.

UPDATE: 12/5/21
FYI- I just opened a case with Bootmod3 requesting that they add a 93 Octane option to the F30 N55 EWG MMSt2+ tune. This would result in the following switchable map options:

1: 93 Octane
2: E30
3: Racegas

Hopefully they will do so, to make it easy to put 93 Octane in the tank without reflashing down to MMSt2.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by johnung

The two attached photos illustrate what I was saying for the Bootmod3 MultiMap tunes for the F30 335i N55 EWG.

Apparently BootMod3 for some reason has different switchable tunes grouped together for your M2 and for my F30 N55 EWG.

I actually prefer yours. To run with less than E30 in the tank I have to flash to the MultiMap Stage2 which has base tunes for as low as 91ACN, 91 and 93.

Ideally I would like to have a MultiMap Stage2+ tune with:

1: 91ACN
2: 91
3: 93
4: E30

This would provide me with the flexibility to never have to reflash the entire tune between MM Stage2 and MM Stage2+. I have an E85 station down the street. But if they are temporarily out or their E85 pump is broken (which has happened) then I have to fill with 93 octane. Or if I'm traveling in the surrounding states, they might not have E85 or quality 93, so I might need to switch down to a 91 or even a 91ACN tune.

BootMod3 does say that a custom tuner can change the tunes in the switchable maps. I just wish that this setup above came from them off the shelf.

FYI- I've noticed, what has been reported elsewhere, that running E85 as the temperature drops into the 40's Fahrenheit, the car has some difficulty starting. So for winter I intend to run lower concentrations of ethanol. I'll drop it down to E50 and if that still labors when starting I will drop to E30. The 93 Octane in my state is all E10, but I could run E15 if I want to give it an octane boost and guard against a weak batch of 93, which has happened.

UPDATE: 12/5/21
FYI- I just opened a case with Bootmod3 requesting that they add a 93 Octane option to the F30 N55 EWG MMSt2+ tune. This would result in the following switchable map options:

1: 93 Octane
2: E30
3: Racegas

Hopefully they will do so, to make it easy to put 93 Octane in the tank without reflashing down to MMSt2.

this is what I need.. I tried to get them to do a higher boost map too and they made 2 or 3.very lack luster attempts and then gave up. so I won't hold my breath.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

this is what I need.. I tried to get them to do a higher boost map too and they made 2 or 3.very lack luster attempts and then gave up. so I won't hold my breath.

What do you mean by a higher boost map? Are you saying that you asked Bootmod3 to do exactly what I'm asking, to add a 93 Octane option to their FlexFuel MultiMap Stage2+.

Or were you asking to create a standard Stage2+ tune but using 93 Octane instead of E30? I can understand why that isn't feasible. To do that would mean trying to squeeze more power out of 93 Octane out of an already optimized OTS tune. The only hardware difference between Stage2 and Stage2+ hardware is that Stage2+ has an upgraded HPFP. That isn't something that adds more upside to 93 octane fuel the way that being able to run a higher ethanol mix does.

I'm not asking BM3 to squeeze more power out of 93 octane fuel. I'm just asking to add the switchable map choice for 93 Octane into the MMapStage2+ that is already in the MMStage 2. Bootmod3 already does this for the M2 MMStage2+ so presumably it it wouldn't be rocket science to accomplish it.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ZM2

Apologies if I’m rehashing already presented info, or maybe it’s different for the M2? From the below pic, it looks like I can do what I mentioned?

So yeah it does look like you have a 93 option under the MM 2+ tune. I didnt understand the part about running full E85 and stock HPFP at the end though... i assume that's not supposed to be there on the 2+ map page.

[LA1Z24]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ioS...ew?usp=sharing

Refer to page 14 for diagrams on how our HPFP works, including the regulator, and how exactly the HPFP Angle pid is calculated. Angle is how much of the lobe is being used. If a cylinder wants low pressure, the DME can fire an injector before the HPFP is at full compression.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

So yeah it does look like you have a 93 option under the MM 2+ tune. I didnt understand the part about running full E85 and stock HPFP at the end though... i assume that's not supposed to be there on the 2+ map page.

My understanding is that Bootmod3's definition of a Stage2 map vs Stage2+ map is that the Stage2+ requires an upgraded HPFP to run it.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

My understanding is that Bootmod3's definition of a Stage2 map vs Stage2+ map is that the Stage2+ requires an upgraded HPFP to run it.

I know that, i am talking about the part i circled in red. Seems like that belongs on a stage 2 map not a 2+

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I know that, i am talking about the part i circled in red. Seems like that belongs on a stage 2 map not a 2+

Ah, now I understand. There is definitely a typo there causing confusion, but it's higher up on the page. That's the information page that pops up when a particular map is selected from the list in the My Maps menu on the BootMod3 application.

So the header at the top is definitely correct and so is the Stage2+ reference a little further down. But below that it should say Stage2+, not just Stage2. The entire page discusses the Stage2+ map, but that typo gives the impression that the bottom of the page is about Stage2. Please see photo for illustration.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I know that, i am talking about the part i circled in red. Seems like that belongs on a stage 2 map not a 2+

yeah they just copied and pasted the same description for all the maps.. same rules still apply. you can't run e85 on the stage 2 multimap etc without a hpfp etc.. also you won't get stage 2+ numbers on the stage 2 maps or stage 1.. boost targets stay consistent between map series.. only timing changes based on e content. and as far as we know, there is no gains above whatever necessary e level to achieve full clean timing for your car on the 2+ map. basically once.you reach clean full timing any additional e won't help you and if thateans you have clean timing at e35 you won't see gains at 50 etc