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      08-31-2018, 10:14 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daftasabrush View Post
wow, they can't make their mind up!
And this one says 100000km and 8 years only for above-normal operating conditions. My plan is just ignore this until past 100000 miles.

"Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In case of above-average operating conditions, such as:
- frequent freeway driving in the upper speed range
- offensive, sporty driving style
- frequent trailer operation
it is recommended to refresh(change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000kmor no later than after 8 years."

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf

Last edited by bavarianride; 08-31-2018 at 10:20 AM..
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      08-31-2018, 10:17 AM   #24
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On the official ZF Service Information document it says "depending on driving style" that they recommend changing oil every:

80,000 to 120,000 kilometers

-or-

50,000 to 75,000 miles


It also mentions that oil should be swapped every 8 years at the very latest.
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      08-31-2018, 10:19 AM   #25
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Im going to wait until 80k or 90k miles most likely.
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      08-31-2018, 10:19 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
On the official ZF Service Information document it says "depending on driving style" that they recommend changing oil every:

80,000 to 120,000 kilometers

-or-

50,000 to 75,000 miles


It also mentions that oil should be swapped every 8 years at the very latest.
Can't figure out which "official" doc to trust, e.g. one says:

In case of above-average operating conditions, such as .... it is recommended to refresh(change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000km or no later than after 8 years."

The sentence structure says only change if above-average operating conditions.
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      08-31-2018, 10:23 AM   #27
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This is honestly the only document Ive seen. Other than that it sounds like a bunch of opinions and hearsay, lol.
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File Type: pdf ZF_8HP.pdf (714.0 KB, 68 views)
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      08-31-2018, 10:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
This is honestly the only document Ive seen. Other than that it sounds like a bunch of opinions and hearsay, lol.
And this one from ZF website says only above-average normal operating conditions requires oil change(or else forever?!?), this is so confusing.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf
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      08-31-2018, 10:29 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
And this one from ZF website says only above-average normal operating conditions requires oil change(or else forever?!?), this is so confusing.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf
link not working...
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      08-31-2018, 11:27 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
link not working...
type this :

aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf

or google lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf
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      08-31-2018, 11:38 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
type this :

aftermarket.zf.com/remotemedia/lol-lubricants/lol-en/lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf

or google lol-te-ml-11-en.pdf
Got it.

Yeah - that is pretty strange to have conflicting information out there.
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      08-31-2018, 11:41 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Got it.

Yeah - that is pretty strange to have conflicting information out there.
Maybe things get lost in translation, or ZF US just takes liberty to skew translation towards frequent changes/over maintenance for profits? :dunno:

Anyhow, this will be on back burner till 100k miles for my car.
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      08-31-2018, 02:37 PM   #33
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Hmm, why can this AT(or even diff fluid) service not be done like a regular oil/coolant change, with easily accessible filter cartridge/unit, and fixed fill volume, e.g. 7 liters?!?

E.g. there can be a drain hole at bottom of pan, and then a fill hole that is higher than the fill level in the oil pan. And a little transmission fluid pump through a filter? Why is it not designed that way? There seems to be room for innovation!
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      09-01-2018, 09:54 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
On the official ZF Service Information document it says "depending on driving style" that they recommend changing oil every:

80,000 to 120,000 kilometers

-or-

50,000 to 75,000 miles


It also mentions that oil should be swapped every 8 years at the very latest.
Can't figure out which "official" doc to trust, e.g. one says:

In case of above-average operating conditions, such as .... it is recommended to refresh(change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000km or no later than after 8 years."

The sentence structure says only change if above-average operating conditions.
The docs are usually dated. Go by most recent date.
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      09-01-2018, 11:41 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
The docs are usually dated. Go by most recent date.
The most recent date looks like 01-07-2018, for the document quoted in post 1. That doc says service interval of 100000km and/or 8 years only applies to high temperature, average normal operating conditions.
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      09-01-2018, 01:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
The docs are usually dated. Go by most recent date.
The most recent date looks like 01-07-2018, for the document quoted in post 1. That doc says service interval of 100000km and/or 8 years only applies to high temperature, average normal operating conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daftasabrush View Post
wow, they can't make their mind up!
And this one says 100000km and 8 years only for above-normal operating conditions. My plan is just ignore this until past 100000 miles.

"Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In case of above-average operating conditions, such as:
- frequent freeway driving in the upper speed range
- offensive, sporty driving style
- frequent trailer operation
it is recommended to refresh(change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000kmor no later than after 8 years."

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...e-ml-11-en.pdf
Here's the exact wording which you quoted.
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      09-01-2018, 01:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Hmm, why can this AT(or even diff fluid) service not be done like a regular oil/coolant change, with easily accessible filter cartridge/unit, and fixed fill volume, e.g. 7 liters?!?

E.g. there can be a drain hole at bottom of pan, and then a fill hole that is higher than the fill level in the oil pan. And a little transmission fluid pump through a filter? Why is it not designed that way?

Advancements in engineering and formulations of ATF remove the burden of inadvertently contaminating the transmission because someone is constantly opening up the case. The less you go poking around in there the better.

In the old days there used to be a dipstick for the transmission. You'd refill via the dipstick.
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      09-01-2018, 01:13 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Here's the exact wording which you quoted.
Maybe it is not meant to be read that way, but it does looks like the 100000km and/or 8 years interval applies "in case of above-average", and anything else is "maintenance-free".

It is not much different that other docs, which says "Depending on driving style ...." The driving style should refer to the high temperature operating condition ones, at least that's how my brain says.

"In case of above-average operating conditions, such as .... it is recommended to refresh(change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000km or no later than after 8 years."
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      09-02-2018, 07:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryo91 View Post
Lmao dude that is so early, that's like changing your oil every 2k miles
it may seem like it
but I am only doing drain and fill
so going every 30k is fine with me
as I drive it hard and am able to do it myself
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      09-05-2018, 09:09 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
it may seem like it
but I am only doing drain and fill
so going every 30k is fine with me
as I drive it hard and am able to do it myself
Only drain and fill as opposed to what? Isnt that the only way to change fluids?
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      09-05-2018, 12:50 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryo91 View Post
Only drain and fill as opposed to what? Isnt that the only way to change fluids?
Alternative would be old school transmission fluid flush machine, which may not work on these F-chassis cars.

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      09-05-2018, 01:32 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
Alternative would be old school transmission fluid flush machine, which may not work on these F-chassis cars.

Ya I am not going to flush
drain and fill is good enough for me
just means shorter intervals
gladly do it for this tranny.. I luv it
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      04-02-2021, 12:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanecoder View Post
it may seem like it
but I am only doing drain and fill
so going every 30k is fine with me
as I drive it hard and am able to do it myself
I did my transmission at 35k. I can't remember where I read this, but considering my driving habits, it is probably not a bad thing to do. If memory serves me well, most transmissions have a break-in period. I wish I could find what this is for the ZF transmissions. They recommend fluid changes every 50k. The engineer in me believes this is acceptable, especially for hard drivers. Unless that has changed. For us more spirited drivers, I also think that is a good baseline. The ZF 8HP kit on FCP Euro is 134$. Comes with fluid, filter and new bolts. Kind of cheap in my opinion when compared the cost of a new transmission.

Cool tip: If you have bootmod3, you can plug that in while the car is up on jack stands to get the transmission fluid temps, which helps to gauge filling it. You can find it in the advanced section of BM3 where you can add custom sensors to the dashboard. Transmission temps is waaaaay towards the bottom. When I changed the transmission, I recovered a total of 4 quarts. I made sure to capture all of it for measuring purposes. Not all can be removed because some remains in the torque converter, as we all know. The car was warm when I removed the transmission fluid, and I made sure to check the level as it cooled since the fluid will expand/contract based on its temperature.

While filling it at the recommended temperature range, and shifting through the gears (stopping for 10 seconds on each gear), I couldn't quite get the entire last quart in. So I jacked up the right side of the car at as much of an angle I could get it to, and was able to get the remainder of the 4th quart back in the transmission.

My transmission is the 8HP, so I followed this procedure provided by ZF.

https://aftermarket.zf.com/remotemed...p-50130-en.pdf

I can say that with the new fluid and filter, the car seems to shift a little more crisp. But that could just be me.

Regards,
-Jer
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      04-02-2021, 08:38 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianride View Post
The most recent date looks like 01-07-2018, for the document quoted in post 1. That doc says service interval of 100000km and/or 8 years only applies to high temperature, average normal operating conditions.
The 80K to 120K recommendation was from the 04.2016 release of 50130 EN. The recommendation is also in TE-ML 11.

The latest version of 50130 EN I can find is 10.2020 and no longer has a recommended maintenance interval.


The latest version of TE-ML 11 I can find was released April 2021 and says the following
Quote:
Originally Posted by TE-ML 11 edition 01.04.2021
ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed semi-synthetic ATF oils. However, due to the many factors influencing the service life of transmissions in individual operation, ZF recommends an oil change after 150,000 km for its transmissions. In operating conditions with high temperatures and loads, or with unknown vehicle use in the past, it can make sense to change the transmission oil at shorter intervals.
EDIT: This is not the first time ZF has changed the interval. It was spotted last year as well. I'm guessing the auto manufacturers pushed back on ZF about providing recommendations that contradicted their own.
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Last edited by capt_slow; 04-03-2021 at 02:28 PM..
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