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      09-02-2019, 08:17 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by mk1-fan View Post
RB better sort this out ASAP.

It completely messed up his race, and I am sure he would have mixed it with the Ferraris and Mercs.

A pity also that Kimi had the damage, as he was fast all weekend. Another guy I really fell sorry for is Norris, having to break down on the penultimate lap.
The thing is this: Launches are completely manual and everyone has the clutch set to their individual preference. The change in 2018, if I remember correctly, was that the engineers could no longer give bite points and the primary and secondary phases of the launch had to be managed by the driver. HAM had some challenges the first race or 2 as did most of the drivers but has gotten it down to a science for the most part. Max is having bad starts because he isn't managing this process. This is a completely individual preference. Some drivers have 2 clutch paddles, some have one, and of these some are longer or shorter based on individual preference. The Mercedes drivers have 2 different steering wheel set ups for this process. Hamilton has a single long paddle which, in his estimation, gives him finer control. Bottas has the 2 paddle set up which works well for him.

Bottom line is that this is a weakness that must be addressed as well as telling Max to let the race come to him. This was something that was worked on in Hamilton's early career...to be patient and let his pace take care of any starting deficits.

To minn19 's point. The re-entry into the race with a broken suspension arm, which can be easily felt, is the most egregious error and should have been penalized for almost taking out Kimi...again. Especially after the horrible death of Antonio Hubert.

Cheers and on to Monza-MK
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      09-02-2019, 11:26 AM   #68
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FIA's Sporting Regulations....

Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
It was Kimi. Can you imagine if MV hit him again and obviously caused him a much bigger accident.........? Had Kimi walked away unscathed, MV might have been facing a much bigger opponent in the pits than his run in with Ocon last year.
If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).
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      09-02-2019, 12:13 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).
This. 100%.
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      09-02-2019, 12:43 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).
Dutchman here and I totally agree with you on this. That was milliseconds away from yet another disaster.
I love Max but I hate the blind Dutch patriotism surrounding him. None of the Dutch media even mentioned his poor judgement diving in to Eau Rouge with a wounded RB (where was the teamradio btw?).
But Max is a clever guy and he knew he fucked up, he was uncharacteristically very subdued during post race interviews.
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      09-02-2019, 12:47 PM   #71
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This one has the in car audio

https://youtu.be/pzNLpsFQ_2Y
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      09-02-2019, 03:25 PM   #72
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Max's move was a dive and didnt work out.. considering the speeds on that corner he seen a chance and went for it.. to get the bigger prize out of that corner.. he wasnt sliding or anything, just ran out of space.. it wasnt like Sato's kamikaze dives.. cause RB's pace wasnt good all weekend long and he tried his luck.. i see it as a racing incident not like old Max move.. only Kimi became a victim there which is bad of course.. and continuing after the damage is pretty normal especially right after the start.. with all that adrenalin + he was going straight and he was checking and seeing something was lose on the front tires.. lets remember that drivers can only see the top of the tires.. on camera it was more clear.. but its obvious that he wasnt expecting to 100% going straight to the tire wall as well.. yes he got away with it and no big crash occurred over there..

i only get 2 big lessons out of this weekend.. cars are really fast these days.. and they re safe.. but they re safe if they crash in solo to barriers.. when they hit each other, drivers become like a bug in a can.. their body cant handle it.. 30-40 years ago it was the same but now its even worse.. to avoid such collisions, we need more room on track, especially in fast parts.. Eau Rouge is one of a kind corner but the run off area is way too small for those speeds.. its like that for many years.. yes there are a lot tree around there but i believe the run off area needs to expand at least 200% on the outside and at least half on the inside.. Hubert d probably live if that run off area were 2-3 times bigger.. and again lesson learnt after a loss.. otherwise Formula 1 active track safety is better than ever.. flags are working well, each track crew seems getting informed fast and clear.. race red flagged after the crash in 1-2 seconds.. it wasnt like this before.. and something needs to be done for driver's feet also.. they re all loose in case of a crash.. maybe a belt system that integrated, or some composites around the tunnel to soften the impact at least a little..
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      09-02-2019, 09:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
Max's move was a dive and didnt work out.. considering the speeds on that corner he seen a chance and went for it.. to get the bigger prize out of that corner.. he wasnt sliding or anything, just ran out of space.. it wasnt like Sato's kamikaze dives.. cause RB's pace wasnt good all weekend long and he tried his luck.. i see it as a racing incident not like old Max move.. only Kimi became a victim there which is bad of course.. and continuing after the damage is pretty normal especially right after the start.. with all that adrenalin + he was going straight and he was checking and seeing something was lose on the front tires.. lets remember that drivers can only see the top of the tires.. on camera it was more clear.. but its obvious that he wasnt expecting to 100% going straight to the tire wall as well.. yes he got away with it and no big crash occurred over there..

i only get 2 big lessons out of this weekend.. cars are really fast these days.. and they re safe.. but they re safe if they crash in solo to barriers.. when they hit each other, drivers become like a bug in a can.. their body cant handle it.. 30-40 years ago it was the same but now its even worse.. to avoid such collisions, we need more room on track, especially in fast parts.. Eau Rouge is one of a kind corner but the run off area is way too small for those speeds.. its like that for many years.. yes there are a lot tree around there but i believe the run off area needs to expand at least 200% on the outside and at least half on the inside.. Hubert d probably live if that run off area were 2-3 times bigger.. and again lesson learnt after a loss.. otherwise Formula 1 active track safety is better than ever.. flags are working well, each track crew seems getting informed fast and clear.. race red flagged after the crash in 1-2 seconds.. it wasnt like this before.. and something needs to be done for driver's feet also.. they re all loose in case of a crash.. maybe a belt system that integrated, or some composites around the tunnel to soften the impact at least a little..
He couldnít pass Kimi or those similar lesser cars in a few laps after the corner? Better to have another top 5 than a DNF by trying that move.

MV continuing after the incident is indefensible. You can see in the in car camera shot how bad the left wheel was shaking immediately after the first corner incident. If viewers can see it in camera you can damn well be sure MV could feel it in the car. You can also see him a few seconds later sawing the steering wheel back and forth with almost no corresponding movement to the car. Yet he keeps continuing until it breaks.

He fucked up bad and you can tell by his later interviews that he knows it. Hopefully he learns from it from here on out. He and others got extremely lucky it wasnít much worse from his actions. If he cleans this up he will most likely become a F1 champion in the near future IMO.

FIA not penalizing him is embarrassing/dangerous to the sport as well IMO. Had it been any other driver aside form the other top 4 they would have been penalized.
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      09-02-2019, 09:54 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
He couldn’t pass Kimi or those similar lesser cars in a few laps after the corner? Better to have another top 5 than a DNF by trying that move.

MV continuing after the incident is indefensible. You can see in the in car camera shot how bad the left wheel was shaking immediately after the first corner incident. If viewers can see it in camera you can damn well be sure MV could feel it in the car. You can also see him a few seconds later sawing the steering wheel back and forth with almost no corresponding movement to the car. Yet he keeps continuing until it breaks.

He fucked up bad and you can tell by his later interviews that he knows it. Hopefully he learns from it from here on out. He and others got extremely lucky it wasn’t much worse from his actions. If he cleans this up he will most likely become a F1 champion in the near future IMO.

FIA not penalizing him is embarrassing/dangerous to the sport as well IMO. Had it been any other driver aside form the other top 4 they would have been penalized.
for your question.. yes he could.. but as i ve said it was a choice and didnt work.. simple is that and its a part of racing..
and for the second part.. there is no rule that applies for force abandoning the car right after 200-300m from the incident even before a corner.. there is a black and orange disc flag.. even with that, after shown driver must retire on the next lap.. so there is nothing stewards can judge with.. yes there must be some vibration on the straight whilst he was checking.. from a driver's perspective if you feel the 4 wheels you tend to continue.. simple as that.. even in worse scenarios can apply to that.. 20 years ago same track Schumacher took half of the lap on 3 wheels, DC with his McLaren without rear wing.. in heavy rain.. if you took part in any racing series not track days you understand better the mood and everything in those moments..

im not a "fanatic" of Max but i like his racing abilities.. on rule book nor my side i dont see anything that bad to harsh judging him this much.. he made poor choices, he lost the race and almost Kimi's race was over also.. not complicated than this..

cheers..
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      09-02-2019, 10:30 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
for your question.. yes he could.. but as i ve said it was a choice and didnt work.. simple is that and its a part of racing..
and for the second part.. there is no rule that applies for force abandoning the car right after 200-300m from the incident even before a corner.. there is a black and orange disc flag.. even with that, after shown driver must retire on the next lap.. so there is nothing stewards can judge with.. yes there must be some vibration on the straight whilst he was checking.. from a driver's perspective if you feel the 4 wheels you tend to continue.. simple as that.. even in worse scenarios can apply to that.. 20 years ago same track Schumacher took half of the lap on 3 wheels, DC with his McLaren without rear wing.. in heavy rain.. if you took part in any racing series not track days you understand better the mood and everything in those moments..

im not a "fanatic" of Max but i like his racing abilities.. on rule book nor my side i dont see anything that bad to harsh judging him this much.. he made poor choices, he lost the race and almost Kimi's race was over also.. not complicated than this..

cheers..
I'm with you here. These guys are pretty safe/fair sports these days. The all-time goat was blatantly purposefully crashing other drivers out. Nowadays the closest you get to that is Vettel harmlessly bumping wheels at crawling speed with Hamilton because he thought he brake checked him. People are getting a little soft.

Verstappen crashed going for a gap. Mistake made. He thought the car was still driveable and was wrong. In the words of Raikkonen, Vettel, and many F1 drivers with limited responses to media questions "obviously it is not ideal", "but this is racing".

You wanna see dangerous driving watch the career rage highlights of [insert famous Nascar driver here].
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      09-02-2019, 10:51 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post
for your question.. yes he could.. but as i ve said it was a choice and didnt work.. simple is that and its a part of racing..
and for the second part.. there is no rule that applies for force abandoning the car right after 200-300m from the incident even before a corner.. there is a black and orange disc flag.. even with that, after shown driver must retire on the next lap.. so there is nothing stewards can judge with.. yes there must be some vibration on the straight whilst he was checking.. from a driver's perspective if you feel the 4 wheels you tend to continue.. simple as that.. even in worse scenarios can apply to that.. 20 years ago same track Schumacher took half of the lap on 3 wheels, DC with his McLaren without rear wing.. in heavy rain.. if you took part in any racing series not track days you understand better the mood and everything in those moments..

im not a "fanatic" of Max but i like his racing abilities.. on rule book nor my side i dont see anything that bad to harsh judging him this much.. he made poor choices, he lost the race and almost Kimi's race was over also.. not complicated than this..

cheers..
Other drivers poor choices donít absolve this drivers bad decision making yesterday. Especially with the context of what happened over the weekend.

Iím a fan of Max when heís not driving like an idiot. Which is exactly how he drove yesterday as purely evidenced by not even making it past the first few corners of said race.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
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      09-02-2019, 11:51 PM   #77
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How about Albon driving up to P5.. I dont think Gasly could have done that
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      09-03-2019, 12:59 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Other drivers poor choices don’t absolve this drivers bad decision making yesterday. Especially with the context of what happened over the weekend.

I’m a fan of Max when he’s not driving like an idiot. Which is exactly how he drove yesterday as purely evidenced by not even making it past the first few corners of said race.

We will just have to agree to disagree.
just like in the last phrase.. agree or disagree simple as that..

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Originally Posted by Blaze439 View Post
How about Albon driving up to P5.. I dont think Gasly could have done that
Albon was my favourite from his debut race.. he was under pressure and he managed it perfectly.. with sheer will.. there was a hero on P5 on sunday.. and actually practice sessions as well.. didnt stumble at all..
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Last edited by yco; 09-03-2019 at 01:17 AM..
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      09-03-2019, 03:30 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerbruce View Post
If the FIA and Race Stewards did not believe that VER's attempt to pass RAI with all four wheels off the racing surface and on a painted warning curb area at Turn 1 was not considered VER's fault....ok....it may be a subjective decision and not an objective decision....but to see the video of VER lose control of his car while climbing the hill to Eau Rouge....and to see RAI's car being just touched by VER's car....while traveling at 300 KPH....this should not have been overlooked by the FIA and Race Stewards....VER (or any competitor) cannot continue in an unsafe manner when their car has been fatally wounded (ie - no steering control).
It's as if stewards felt sorry for Max that they took no action..but Max wasn't sorry in his explanation.
So a comment from the stewards as to this incident should be forthcoming at least
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