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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Clearing Up Timing Chain Inconsistencies
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      08-01-2019, 03:38 PM   #155
Linc0909
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I just came across this:

https://www.bmwblog.com/2013/09/29/b...20-n26-engine/

Wonder what happened? BMW informed NHTSA of initiating a recall but I haven't read anywhere where they actually issued one... hmm
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      08-01-2019, 10:49 PM   #156
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This happened:
https://www.bmwblog.com/2014/11/22/b...assist-issues/
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      09-19-2019, 10:25 PM   #157
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I have a 2016 F30 328i LCI built 09/2015 - my guide is orange af. Chain looks very clean and tight. I have a feeling they didn't fix sh*t.
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      09-19-2019, 11:15 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by MattyBeams View Post
I have a 2016 F30 328i LCI built 09/2015 - my guide is orange af. Chain looks very clean and tight. I have a feeling they didn't fix sh*t.
The color of the guide has absolutely nothing to do with it being "new" or "old" design. This has been proved by the original video of the N20 being assembled in 2012. Guides were white. All guides new and old will turn orange/brown after saturation with oil and umpteen heat cycles.

You have the revised timing chain components. Period.
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      09-21-2019, 04:38 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
The color of the guide has absolutely nothing to do with it being "new" or "old" design. This has been proved by the original video of the N20 being assembled in 2012. Guides were white. All guides new and old will turn orange/brown after saturation with oil and umpteen heat cycles.

You have the revised timing chain components. Period.
It seems like that should be the case but I've just seen nothing definite on it - that LCI should of been the first line they fixed it on though.

No issues with the car so far, just passed 70k yesterday, no leaks, smells, sounds.

Looking into a m performance exhaust, idk yet though, with that in the back of my mind I'm afraid to boost performance in any way. Exhaust seems like a safe mod though even tho it won't really boost HP.
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      10-15-2019, 08:29 AM   #160
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Hi, i just read every replies. Had couple strokes and anxieties, but after all, i think that this is not bad as i would think. I still have a lot of forums to read, but overall this seems to be a rare problem. Its bad if its happens. I thank everyone of you who replied to this thread. If you have anything to add to this thread i think you should say it. I am from Finland and i have 2012 F30 N20. Last owner changed oils after 30-40tkm twice, so thats why i am here.
After this i think i will change my oils after every 10tkm.
My question is, should i change the tensioner? is that an easy diy?
AMA.
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      10-15-2019, 12:54 PM   #161
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Okay so I read a lot about the problems with the chain.

I noticed that the chain is sometimes not tight, this is sometimes cold or if you turn off the engine. I read that people say this is normal cam shaft turns etc ..

I have ordered a new tensioner and tested it with oil, the old one does not remain on tension like the new one. The difference is not really big but certainly present.

I also see people saying that the two upper pieces are broken, that small piece where they click into each other at the top is only practical for assembly, it is fixed everywhere with bolts so it doesn't matter.

So if you have a bad tensioner and the car starts every time with a little slack in the chain, I don't think it's good for the whole chain.

After replacing, I always have a tight chain.

I am from the Netherlands and drive a 2012-12 model year 2013 328xi n26 93000km
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      10-15-2019, 10:12 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h202h View Post
Hi, i just read every replies. Had couple strokes and anxieties, but after all, i think that this is not bad as i would think. I still have a lot of forums to read, but overall this seems to be a rare problem. Its bad if its happens. I thank everyone of you who replied to this thread. If you have anything to add to this thread i think you should say it. I am from Finland and i have 2012 F30 N20. Last owner changed oils after 30-40tkm twice, so thats why i am here.
After this i think i will change my oils after every 10tkm.
My question is, should i change the tensioner? is that an easy diy?
AMA.
Not an easy DIY at all, at least not for the average weekend mechanic like most of us are. That's one of the things I would leave to the pros.
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      10-16-2019, 10:28 AM   #163
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I spoke to one of the parts counter guys at the dealer recently, he's worked there for over 25 yrs and has not seen one example of a N20 coming apart due to timing chain issue. I live not 10 miles from the Duncan assembly plant where all the X models are built so I'm sure with the abundance of BMW's in the area, if there was an issue we'd see it here.
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      10-16-2019, 02:24 PM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc0909 View Post
I spoke to one of the parts counter guys at the dealer recently, he's worked there for over 25 yrs and has not seen one example of a N20 coming apart due to timing chain issue. I live not 10 miles from the Duncan assembly plant where all the X models are built so I'm sure with the abundance of BMW's in the area, if there was an issue we'd see it here.
Considering the n20 has been in circulation for about 8 years, his "25 years" has little relevance. Furthermore, proximity to a manufacturing plant has nothing to do with frequency of failure.

The question of "is it a problem" was answered long ago. Proven not only by numerous reports we see here but by the action BMW has taken to avoid a recall by issuing an extended warranty.
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      10-17-2019, 09:11 PM   #165
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In the past few weeks had a "low oil pressure" warning. Turns out the timing chain guide was damaged and began floating around in the oil pan. No wine or anything coming from the timing chain.

This occurred at 77k miles 2012 n26 6mt
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      10-18-2019, 10:09 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by f30nick View Post
In the past few weeks had a "low oil pressure" warning. Turns out the timing chain guide was damaged and began floating around in the oil pan. No wine or anything coming from the timing chain.

This occurred at 77k miles 2012 n26 6mt
What are your plans for getting it repaired? Quotes?

What oil change intervals have you been running?

Has Auto Start/Stop been disabled?
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      10-18-2019, 10:29 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
What are your plans for getting it repaired? Quotes?

What oil change intervals have you been running?

Has Auto Start/Stop been disabled?
Getting it repaired by a local indy shop known for working on European cars.
$2300 which included new revised timing chain/guides, new oil, labor ect.

Got the car CPO at 30k miles, was changing at around 10k intervals.

No start stop since my ownership.
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      10-22-2019, 08:21 AM   #168
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I don't think Auto Start Stop is the reason for premature wear of timing chain/guide. Myself and others that had program the Auto Start Stop off from day 1 of ownership have the problem plus I change my oil every 10000km.
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      10-22-2019, 04:15 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f30nick View Post
Getting it repaired by a local indy shop known for working on European cars.
$2300 which included new revised timing chain/guides, new oil, labor ect.

Got the car CPO at 30k miles, was changing at around 10k intervals.

No start stop since my ownership.
Why isn't this covered under the extended warranty?
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      10-22-2019, 10:39 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenal View Post
Why isn't this covered under the extended warranty?
At 77k miles

Also had to get a new oil pump as there were fragments of plastic in it
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      10-29-2019, 07:40 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BettyFkinCrocker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc0909 View Post
I spoke to one of the parts counter guys at the dealer recently, he's worked there for over 25 yrs and has not seen one example of a N20 coming apart due to timing chain issue. I live not 10 miles from the Duncan assembly plant where all the X models are built so I'm sure with the abundance of BMW's in the area, if there was an issue we'd see it here.
Considering the n20 has been in circulation for about 8 years, his "25 years" has little relevance. Furthermore, proximity to a manufacturing plant has nothing to do with frequency of failure.

The question of "is it a problem" was answered long ago. Proven not only by numerous reports we see here but by the action BMW has taken to avoid a recall by issuing an extended warranty.
His 25 yrs is very relevant being that he has been with BMW a long time and has experience dealing directly with any issues that may be out here

Being in close proximity is very much to be considered, BMW offers special lease rates for ALL their employees and that being said there is a magnitude of BMWs in this area. So the large amount of the vehicles being in this area and this particular dealer being the ONLY dealer within 5 counties shows that this dealer would see a significant amount of cars with any 'common' issue. This wouldn't add to the frequency but the fact that if there was a problem then with the abundance of vehicles, more so than other market places, they would see an issue more so than a rural community if there was one.

The Duncan plant employs over 11,000 people, I understand that not every employee owns a BMW but even a decent percentage and the fact that that special lease rate is extended to family would build on the amount of purchases more so than a market without the plant.

It's the same for any manufacturer.
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      10-30-2019, 05:30 AM   #172
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So what are you saying? There is no issue? Have you considered that he maybe lying
I mean, he works at dealership... why would you believe him, especially with such a claim?
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      10-30-2019, 07:01 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc0909 View Post
His 25 yrs is very relevant being that he has been with BMW a long time and has experience dealing directly with any issues that may be out here
Wrong. 25 years has zero relevance in the context of a conversation regarding an engine that has been around for 8. Hypothetically, 8 years of his experience is relevant...and that's assuming he isn't just an oil changer etc. In the context of the data we have here and elsewhere, his 8 years becomes even less relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc0909 View Post
Being in close proximity is very much to be considered, BMW offers special lease rates for ALL their employees and that being said there is a magnitude of BMWs in this area. So the large amount of the vehicles being in this area and this particular dealer being the ONLY dealer within 5 counties shows that this dealer would see a significant amount of cars with any 'common' issue. This wouldn't add to the frequency but the fact that if there was a problem then with the abundance of vehicles, more so than other market places, they would see an issue more so than a rural community if there was one.
No. Not only is the information being filtered through you're perspective (which has historically been inaccurate at best), it is dissolved when looking at the data from all other sources. Your small region (assuming your input is accurate at all) still does not represent a real statistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilanF30 View Post
So what are you saying? There is no issue? Have you considered that he maybe lying
I mean, he works at dealership... why would you believe him, especially with such a claim?
As with 99.99% of this guys posts, it can be ignored. He speaks as if he is the head engineer at BMW because he worked on his neighbors lawn mower once. Look through his post history, it's pretty comical.
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      10-30-2019, 11:02 AM   #174
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No I speak with over 16 yrs of working experience IN the automotive field. I am a certified Engine Builder, I hold a certification from Mid Florida Technical Institute for Engine assembly and performance, I am also ASE certified in engine performance and repair (among other certifications) Unlike YOU who barely has enough knowledge or dexterity to start your neighbors lawn mower, respectively go fuck your self 😁🖕🏼
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      10-31-2019, 06:43 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc0909 View Post
No I speak with over 16 yrs of working experience IN the automotive field. I am a certified Engine Builder, I hold a certification from Mid Florida Technical Institute for Engine assembly and performance, I am also ASE certified in engine performance and repair (among other certifications)
AKA, worked on your neighbors lawn mower. Let's even assume everything you say is 100% true, it only serves to discredit the validity and legitimacy of those "certifications" due to the willful ignorance and misinformation you spew on this forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc0909 View Post
Unlike YOU who barely has enough knowledge or dexterity to start your neighbors lawn mower, respectively go fuck your self ������
And every line you type only proves my points further. Zero relevance or substance to your claims followed by a toddler like reaction. In an effort to maintain the subject at hand and not allow you to derail, our bullets so far are -

Timing chain/guide failure IS a verified issue. No debate considering BMW has confirmed this themselves.
  • Chicken or egg - whether the chain stretching or guides failing are the root cause is yet to be 100% determined
  • Slack in the chain doesn't really indicate anything
  • Cost for a shop to replace is pretty significant, roughly $2000-$3000 usd.
  • Some have distinct symptoms before failure, some see/hear nothing at all
  • Lincs anecdotal inaccurate misinformed opinions can be ignored

I think I've covered most if not all the important points...
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      10-31-2019, 09:13 AM   #176
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Haha you definitely did cover everything, even Linc0909
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