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      11-06-2018, 04:32 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
If that's the case that they're white, then they must stain easier. BMW revised the guide and chain supposedly.
I trust that the guides were revised at some point, it's just weird that the facts are so inconsistent.

Maybe what you said is the answer though: the newer plastics implemented in the new guides stain less easily and appear lighter in color (EDIT: or they're just newer so less stained regardless of plastic used ) ? Like the video in the first page of this thread shows, even the old guides were white at production.

Still confused that the revision date is 01/2015 though. Like I said, at that point we were only months away from the LCI hitting dealerships, so why even bother revising the N20 so majorly for a couple months of production.

The whole timing chain issue is just a crap shoot.
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      11-06-2018, 05:28 PM   #90
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They "could" have changed the grade of resin and there would be no way to know as it would look the same. They could have modified the mold slightly and again there would be no way to know unless one had the early and later version and examined both carefully. It takes a very little internal radius to increase strength dramatically. In fact it would be really had to see the difference. Now, if they increased wall stock or added a couple of ribs then they would be very obvious.
It is looking like I will have to get an entire engine. If so I will change the timing chain and oil pump chain before I put it in the car. So much easier working on an engine on a stand!
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      11-06-2018, 06:13 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjdnyy224 View Post
I trust that the guides were revised at some point, it's just weird that the facts are so inconsistent.

Maybe what you said is the answer though: the newer plastics implemented in the new guides stain less easily and appear lighter in color (EDIT: or they're just newer so less stained regardless of plastic used ) ? Like the video in the first page of this thread shows, even the old guides were white at production.

Still confused that the revision date is 01/2015 though. Like I said, at that point we were only months away from the LCI hitting dealerships, so why even bother revising the N20 so majorly for a couple months of production.

The whole timing chain issue is just a crap shoot.
Yeah, it's hard to tell since BMW is trying to keep this under the wraps where they can. That being said, assuming the date change is correct, they likely changed it because cars were still going to be made up until N2X was completely phased out. It's still used in some cars and apparently, mid-2016 was the end for it in our US 328i's. So, that would prompt them to change it regardless of the B series engine entering. Even a few months, IMO, would prompt it seeing as quite a few engines could be produced in that time frame, leading to a chance of more failures.

At the end of the day, while it can be scary to know that the issue exists, the chances are low in proportion to the amount of N2Xs in the world. Performing your preventive maintenance (including even changing out the tensioner), doing regular checks, turning off Auto Start/Stop, letting the car warm up, etc., should go a long way.

I personally get my oil changed every 5k miles and ensure I check the filter for any foreign objects. I also throw in Ceratec (supposed to reduce friction) every few oil changes. My chain is checked every 1k or so to check for any deep scoring or change in the amount of slack.

Those are just a few things I do and it can't hurt for anyone else to as well, should they see fit. I'm at 93k now with no foreseeable issues and hoping it stays that way. Lol.
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      11-06-2018, 08:22 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BunkerJ View Post
Yeah, it's hard to tell since BMW is trying to keep this under the wraps where they can. That being said, assuming the date change is correct, they likely changed it because cars were still going to be made up until N2X was completely phased out. It's still used in some cars and apparently, mid-2016 was the end for it in our US 328i's. So, that would prompt them to change it regardless of the B series engine entering. Even a few months, IMO, would prompt it seeing as quite a few engines could be produced in that time frame, leading to a chance of more failures.

At the end of the day, while it can be scary to know that the issue exists, the chances are low in proportion to the amount of N2Xs in the world. Performing your preventive maintenance (including even changing out the tensioner), doing regular checks, turning off Auto Start/Stop, letting the car warm up, etc., should go a long way.

I personally get my oil changed every 5k miles and ensure I check the filter for any foreign objects. I also throw in Ceratec (supposed to reduce friction) every few oil changes. My chain is checked every 1k or so to check for any deep scoring or change in the amount of slack.

Those are just a few things I do and it can't hurt for anyone else to as well, should they see fit. I'm at 93k now with no foreseeable issues and hoping it stays that way. Lol.
Agreed, chances are low of being affected, but like you said still a bit scary nonetheless lol. It would just be nice if we were certain about the facts surrounding the issue like we usually can be with manufacturing defects. Also agree that a lot of it is in the hands of the owner. Keeping the chain lubed up with fresh oil/short intervals, letting it get warm before driving, no AS/S all helps for sure.
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      11-06-2018, 08:31 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qualicas View Post
They "could" have changed the grade of resin and there would be no way to know as it would look the same. They could have modified the mold slightly and again there would be no way to know unless one had the early and later version and examined both carefully. It takes a very little internal radius to increase strength dramatically. In fact it would be really had to see the difference. Now, if they increased wall stock or added a couple of ribs then they would be very obvious.
It is looking like I will have to get an entire engine. If so I will change the timing chain and oil pump chain before I put it in the car. So much easier working on an engine on a stand!
Good luck on your new project... be sure to keep us posted. Probably want to start a new thread for that one.

Also - dont get hosed on an engine. Freshly rebuilt ones with upgraded components can be had for $3.2k USD delivered.
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      11-07-2018, 12:27 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Good luck on your new project... be sure to keep us posted. Probably want to start a new thread for that one.

Also - dont get hosed on an engine. Freshly rebuilt ones with upgraded components can be had for $3.2k USD delivered.
Where would one buy a rebuilt engine for USD3200? I can get one from a wreck for CDN4000. (USD3000) but then I would want to put in new chain and tensioner. I suppose I could just throw the engine in and call it good but I can't do something half assed. New hoses, new water pump etc. Then I will sell it anyway. But at least the buyer would have a good reliable car. No wonder I never make money selling cars. (But then I do this for "fun")
Speaking of which, have a look at part of the wiring harness. It starts at the computer on top of intake, wraps around front and back and under the intake. Crazy. I have labelled and paint marked the connectors. About half a dozen and you can't really grasp or see most of them. This is not the entire wiring harness either.
Then have a look at the water line. Reminds me of Dr. Seuss stories with the who's musical instruments.
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      11-07-2018, 12:47 PM   #95
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      11-18-2018, 01:51 AM   #96
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I have turned off start/stop pretty much since I bought the car. I also changed oil about every 4K miles since I got the car. I drive mostly stop and go traffic with top speed limit of 45 mph, thus since new I don't over rev the engine when engine is cold.

I guess I have good change of not meeting this issue?

Anyway, can someone please provide a link of YouTube video that accurately describes the whining noise? I saw many videos, but many were not whining sound. So kind of confused. Thx!
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      11-20-2018, 08:13 PM   #97
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It doesn't help that our N20 naturally has faint whining noise. Makes it hard to tell if it's the timing chain whine or not.

Anyone tried or researched into doing the oil pump chain and timing chain themselves? Or had a shop do it for them?

I've read that the timing chain is a big job and is not for a diyer, but any idea about oil pump chain?

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      11-20-2018, 09:59 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canman111 View Post
It doesn't help that our N20 naturally has faint whining noise. Makes it hard to tell if it's the timing chain whine or not.

Anyone tried or researched into doing the oil pump chain and timing chain themselves? Or had a shop do it for them?

I've read that the timing chain is a big job and is not for a diyer, but any idea about oil pump chain?
@rjdnyy224

Coincidence?!
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      11-20-2018, 10:03 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by canman111 View Post
It doesn't help that our N20 naturally has faint whining noise. Makes it hard to tell if it's the timing chain whine or not.

Anyone tried or researched into doing the oil pump chain and timing chain themselves? Or had a shop do it for them?

I've read that the timing chain is a big job and is not for a diyer, but any idea about oil pump chain?
@rjdnyy224

Coincidence?!
Haha I noticed this as well. Funny timing
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      11-22-2018, 06:18 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canman111 View Post
It doesn't help that our N20 naturally has faint whining noise. Makes it hard to tell if it's the timing chain whine or not.

Anyone tried or researched into doing the oil pump chain and timing chain themselves? Or had a shop do it for them?

I've read that the timing chain is a big job and is not for a diyer, but any idea about oil pump chain?
Here is the instructional to do the oil pump chain. This is assuming you have dissembled the timing chain components as well.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...motor/HinAc4xE

You can find the manuals for everything related to the n20 engine in the newtis manuals.

Hope this is helpful
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      11-23-2018, 10:47 AM   #101
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The guides are always ivory/white when new. It's the fact that the engine runs hot and the long oil change intervals that makes them discolour.
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      11-26-2018, 10:02 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canman111 View Post
It doesn't help that our N20 naturally has faint whining noise. Makes it hard to tell if it's the timing chain whine or not.
You'll know when it's the timing chain starting to go. Between the turbo spool and the already noisy engine, it can be confusing but the failure noise is best described as a "dying cat" noise. It'll be pretty loud.
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      12-03-2018, 11:37 PM   #103
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I finally got some more time to work on this project. I managed to pull the engine last weekend. I pulled the oil pump/balance shaft assy. Then finally I pulled a rod cap. Bearing looks just fine. I figured I would look at the main bearings as well. Wouldn't you know it, BMW designed the whole bottom of the block to split at the centre of the crank. It also holds the main bearing caps.
I doubt anyone at BMW ever thought any of these engines would be rebuilt!
So if I want to look at the main bearings, the whole girdle assy has to come off.
I figured before I did that I should pull the head. Do you know that a Torx T60 really long bit is difficult to find.I had to order on line.
As well, to take off the fuel injector/spark plug well, you need to pull an injector.
Now I will need to make a tool to pull the injector. If it takes too much force to pull you need to replace the injector
No doubt this is the worst engine I have ever worked on. I am wondering if I will ever get all wiring hooded up again.
Oh, pulling the exhaust manifold/turbo I did on the engine stand. Water lines and oil lines. Water lines were difficult and I have it on a stand.
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      12-09-2018, 07:36 PM   #104
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Does anyone have a list of parts needed for an entire swap for oil pump, oil pump chain + timing chain, etc?

Also labor seems like it's around $2k?
Thanks all
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      12-11-2018, 11:11 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by lonecitizenfour View Post
Does anyone have a list of parts needed for an entire swap for oil pump, oil pump chain + timing chain, etc?

Also labor seems like it's around $2k?
Thanks all
Correct. You can search for a timing kit which has all the parts needed theoretically, but in practice you never know what extra bolts/washers etc youíll need on top of the special tools to lock out the moving parts in specific order.
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      12-12-2018, 11:38 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by RMachuca3d View Post
Correct. You can search for a timing kit which has all the parts needed theoretically, but in practice you never know what extra bolts/washers etc youíll need on top of the special tools to lock out the moving parts in specific order.
Got quoted $3300 or so at an indy with all the parts
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      12-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonecitizenfour View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMachuca3d View Post
Correct. You can search for a timing kit which has all the parts needed theoretically, but in practice you never know what extra bolts/washers etc you’ll need on top of the special tools to lock out the moving parts in specific order.
Got quoted $3300 or so at an indy with all the parts
Not bad if they are reputable. See if you can get an exact list of what they will replace?

Are you having this done or just researching?
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      12-12-2018, 12:18 PM   #108
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I think $2000 plus parts is about fair for this job.
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      12-12-2018, 03:27 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Not bad if they are reputable. See if you can get an exact list of what they will replace?

Are you having this done or just researching?

Researching.

The parts are
1. Engine Sealant
2. Anti Freeze
3. Timing chain Kit
4. Oil Filter Kit
5. Valve Cover Gasket Set
6. Seal (?lol)
7. Mobil 1 Oil
8. Camshaft Adjuster Seal
9. Crankshaft Pulley Bolt
10. Timing Crankshaft Sprock
11. Washer
12. Oil Pan Gasket
13. Oil Pump Drive Gear

Parts - $950
Labor - $2400
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      12-12-2018, 03:48 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lonecitizenfour View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspade View Post
Not bad if they are reputable. See if you can get an exact list of what they will replace?

Are you having this done or just researching?

Researching.

The parts are
1. Engine Sealant
2. Anti Freeze
3. Timing chain Kit
4. Oil Filter Kit
5. Valve Cover Gasket Set
6. Seal (?lol)
7. Mobil 1 Oil
8. Camshaft Adjuster Seal
9. Crankshaft Pulley Bolt
10. Timing Crankshaft Sprock
11. Washer
12. Oil Pan Gasket
13. Oil Pump Drive Gear

Parts - $950
Labor - $2400
Great info!

In going to attempt to match part numbers to this and save for my own personal list in the future.
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