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      11-15-2018, 10:53 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber View Post
Yes. Same old problem with snap shot polls. Which is why you need to take the average of ALL polls since the referendum. This shows little movement in people's preferences.

Link please!
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      11-15-2018, 11:06 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
Not true. A very large poll for Channel 4 News a couple of weeks ago showed a pretty decisive swing:

https://www.channel4.com/news/major-...towards-remain

Other recent ones all seem to have been heading that way as the type of deal we could expect emerged

https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...-survey-shows/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8524431.html

I admit that there is no certainty that Remain would win a new referendum, but on the basis of recent polls, and in light of the details of the deal, it looks pretty likely...
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EDIT Here's another published in the last few minutes https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8635341.html
Can you provide any firm proof that the channel 4 poll was only completed by UK residents and that no EU mainland persons took part in the poll or that multiple entries were made by same person?

Online polls are very open to abuse, especially when as emotive as Brexit.

Also I would hazard a guess that channel 4 is not the usual channel for those that voted leave.
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      11-15-2018, 11:15 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Can you provide any firm proof that the channel 4 poll was only completed by UK residents and that no EU mainland persons took part in the poll or that multiple entries were made by same person?

Online polls are very open to abuse, especially when as emotive as Brexit.

Also I would hazard a guess that channel 4 is not the usual channel for those that voted leave.
It was conducted by a major polling organisation, Survation, so it is likely to have been done properly. I'm not just relying on one poll here, I have listed 4 recent ones which all point the same way. The chances that they are all rigged in some way seems somewhat unlikely to me at least.

Are there other recent polls which show support for Leave? If there are I haven't seen them.
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      11-15-2018, 11:21 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber View Post
Yes. Same old problem with snap shot polls. Which is why you need to take the average of ALL polls since the referendum. This shows little movement in people's preferences.

Why are all the senior brexiters terrified of the peoples vote then?
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      11-15-2018, 11:27 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyl View Post
Why are all the senior brexiters terrified of the peoples vote then?
Same old story - those who have don't want a referendum as they don't want to lose what hey have. Those who don't have, want the chance to get their way.

As it is at the moment, Brexit is the "have". Previously, before the last referendum, it was the other way round.
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      11-15-2018, 11:29 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
It was conducted by a major polling organisation, Survation, so it is likely to have been done properly. I'm not just relying on one poll here, I have listed 4 recent ones which all point the same way. The chances that they are all rigged in some way seems somewhat unlikely to me at least.

Are there other recent polls which show support for Leave? If there are I haven't seen them.
It's not so much what they show, it's polls in general.

For example the Independent Newspaper, it usesdata from 1100 people and then has a big article about huge swing in those that would vote remain.

I don't think any poll in last 8 years or so has actually given anywhere near the correct results, I know the General Election polls have proven to be bollox for a while.
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      11-15-2018, 11:30 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
It's not so much what they show, it's polls in general.

For example the Independent Newspaper, it usesdata from 1100 people and then has a big article about huge swing in those that would vote remain.

I don't think any poll in last 8 years or so has actually given anywhere near the correct results, I know the General Election polls have proven to be bollox for a while.
Agree. Exit Polls are the only ones that come close to being correct in recent times.
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      11-15-2018, 11:46 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber View Post
We had the people's vote in 2016.

17.4 million of us want out.
Yeap your democratically elected leader has delivered Brexit, if u don't like it then too bad perhaps you would like a second referendum to express your disgust
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      11-15-2018, 12:08 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber View Post
We had the people's vote in 2016.

17.4 million of us want out.
*wanted.

It's like booking a one way ticket to Dignitas because you heard you are about to die a slow and painful death only to get a phone call from the doctors just as you were about to leave for the airport to say they made an error with your tests, but go through with it anyway because you don't want the hassle of ringing easy jet to cancel your flight.
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      11-15-2018, 12:21 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
You'll love that then, a GE followed by a Corbyn government, rampant spending/borrowing/inflation and interest rates plus crazy personal tax % coupled with a no deal Brexit and lights out by 3pm every day meaning you'll be tripping up over the uncollected rubbish accumulating in the street....

Ah the good days
That's the nightmare situation though.

A GE that results in a labour victory.

Having Corbyn & Co in power will make Brexit a picnic in the park.

The disaster that leaving the EU was likely to bring will be nothing in comparison to how much these people want to punish certain parts of society.

Complete bunch of fuckwits.
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      11-15-2018, 12:25 PM   #77
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Agreeing what appears on the face of it to be a very poor deal this "early" in the process is simply not going to please anyone. People who voted remain will not be happy at kind of leaving the EU, people who voted leave are not happy with kind of leaving the EU.

I am coming more to the conclusion that there should be a second referendum, albeit it could tear the population apart:

1. Remain

2. Agree TM's Deal

3. Reject TM's Deal with a "Backstop" that no payment is made other than binding contractual commitments and it is a no deal. The downside with that is whether the government clowns can negotiate a decent deal in the hurricane forces that would be blowing in the event of a no deal.
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      11-15-2018, 12:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeoz View Post
Probably as they were a 1 man 1 policy party
The reasons are what they are the point is its happened.
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      11-15-2018, 12:40 PM   #79
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With all the brick bats thrown at May today, she's handled this with a lot of class.

I'm starting to warm to her and I think others are as well listening to the phone ins today.

Someone also needs to explain why this is a poor deal? She's just stated everything that the withdrawal agreement gives and it's almost a full house.
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      11-15-2018, 12:59 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
With all the brick bats thrown at May today, she's handled this with a lot of class.

I'm starting to warm to her and I think others are as well listening to the phone ins today.

Someone also needs to explain why this is a poor deal? She's just stated everything that the withdrawal agreement gives and it's almost a full house.
Yeh, she's a tough old bird, as one BBC correspondent inadvertently described her
I'd love to see Rees-Mogg lose the Vote of No Confidence he's spearheading - he's such a pompous turd
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      11-15-2018, 01:05 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Yeh, she's a tough old bird, as one BBC correspondent inadvertently described her
I'd love to see Rees-Mogg lose the Vote of No Confidence he's spearheading - he's such a pompous turd
Awful man the unacceptable face of the Tories in my opinion, if I were May I'd be summoning the Jag and going to chequers for a slap up steak dinner and nice bottle or two of pomerol (whatever that is)
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      11-15-2018, 02:15 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Yeh, she's a tough old bird, as one BBC correspondent inadvertently described her
I'd love to see Rees-Mogg lose the Vote of No Confidence he's spearheading - he's such a pompous turd
Between him and Corbyn it's hard to say who you would hit first with a cricket bat.
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      11-15-2018, 02:21 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
Awful man the unacceptable face of the Tories in my opinion, if I were May I'd be summoning the Jag and going to chequers for a slap up steak dinner and nice bottle or two of pomerol (whatever that is)
While I completely disagree with JRM on Brexit, I much prefer him to Boris. They’re both privileged old Etonians with a condescending attitude, but at least JRM has a sincerely held view that leaving the EU is good for the UK. Boris on the other hand is just an opportunist who is looking to further his career. He could have been on either side of this debate, but chose the one which he felt would benefit him personally.

I have had some indirect dealings with JRM in relation to his previous Treasury Select Committee role, and he seemed pretty sensible to me.
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      11-15-2018, 02:34 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wills2 View Post
With all the brick bats thrown at May today, she's handled this with a lot of class.

I'm starting to warm to her and I think others are as well listening to the phone ins today.

Someone also needs to explain why this is a poor deal? She's just stated everything that the withdrawal agreement gives and it's almost a full house.
Have you read the excerpts from the draft exit agreement ?

For example :

How does being in a UK-EU Customs Territory but not being permitted to leave, unless both parties agree, make this an acceptable deal ?

How does lack of access to crucial security databases makes this an acceptable deal ?

How does an ongoing role for the ECJ after March 2019 make this an acceptable deal ?

How does preventing the UK from trading with nations outside the EU, if those terms were more advantageous than the terms in place between the UK-EU, make this an acceptable deal ?

People may, and do, say that this is better than No Deal. I disagree. We'd be paying the EU to lock us to the gates of Europe, with no freedom, bound by EU rules and not able to influence them.

The EU has acted arrogantly throughout the entire process, to the extent that it has openly mocked Thera May. This deal is a shocker and should be kicked back to the negotiating table.
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      11-15-2018, 02:41 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JD6 View Post
While I completely disagree with JRM on Brexit, I much prefer him to Boris. They’re both privileged old Etonians with a condescending attitude, but at least JRM has a sincerely held view that leaving the EU is good for the UK. Boris on the other hand is just an opportunist who is looking to further his career. He could have been on either side of this debate, but chose the one which he felt would benefit him personally.

I have had some indirect dealings with JRM in relation to his previous Treasury Select Committee role, and he seemed pretty sensible to me.
Plenty wouldn't vote for him as he's viewed, maybe rightly, as a toff but I think he's in the same category as TM - he does at least stand by his principles. I think he talks a lot of sense.
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      11-15-2018, 02:49 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr August Schmidhuber View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Between him and Corbyn it's hard to say who you would hit first with a cricket bat.
I like Rees Mogg. People don't like him because he's always fucking right!
No, you're wrong there, my friend
He's a pompous c**t, plain and simple, that's why people don't like him
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      11-15-2018, 02:52 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsey View Post
Have you read the excerpts from the draft exit agreement ?

For example :

How does being in a UK-EU Customs Territory but not being permitted to leave, unless both parties agree, make this an acceptable deal ?

How does lack of access to crucial security databases makes this an acceptable deal ?

How does an ongoing role for the ECJ after March 2019 make this an acceptable deal ?

How does preventing the UK from trading with nations outside the EU, if those terms were more advantageous than the terms in place between the UK-EU, make this an acceptable deal ?

People may, and do, say that this is better than No Deal. I disagree. We'd be paying the EU to lock us to the gates of Europe, with no freedom, bound by EU rules and not able to influence them.

The EU has acted arrogantly throughout the entire process, to the extent that it has openly mocked Thera May. This deal is a shocker and should be kicked back to the negotiating table.
What table, the negotiating table is in the removals van on its way into storage, it won't come back out until some other country votes out.

Thing is we've inadvertently helped the EU, other countries that were teetering on the edge will never leave now after the fuck up we're making of it.

Just wondering why people think the EU should give us a good deal. It is us acting arrogantly saying we want to be allowed to keep anything that benefits us. Why can't the EU openly mock our government and leaders, we've made ourselves a laughing stock throughout the whole process? Our own government can't agree on what we want, how are the EU supposed to react to that?
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      11-15-2018, 03:00 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Yeh, she's a tough old bird, as one BBC correspondent inadvertently described her
I'd love to see Rees-Mogg lose the Vote of No Confidence he's spearheading - he's such a pompous turd
Between him and Corbyn it's hard to say who you would hit first with a cricket bat.
Flamethrower and get them both - wankers.
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