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      04-09-2019, 02:12 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zole2112 View Post
With the Walbro LPFP I run 50% all the time, and I ran as high as 60%. I am PWG N55.
Of course, when you have stock PWG turbo the fuel pump will never have to work very hard
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      04-09-2019, 02:33 PM   #90
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check the other picture on N54 aswell , you have to cut one side otherwise it will collide with a vacuum hose . i made a straight cut through its original mounting hole . Good luck with the retrofit
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      04-10-2019, 08:16 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_m235i View Post
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Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S View Post
93oct
https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1552302396?log=1

E20
https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1552511070

same engine map different fuel . what do you think ?

Am I reading that wrong or is the rail pressure all over the place? And what fuel is this map expecting? 93?
If your running an Ethanol mix weather it being E20 or E40 you need to tune for it, running a 93 map wont support ethanol and of course fuel pump will be all over the place..... i think lol
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      04-15-2019, 02:48 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_m235i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S View Post
93oct
https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1552302396?log=1

E20
https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1552511070

same engine map different fuel . what do you think ?

Am I reading that wrong or is the rail pressure all over the place? And what fuel is this map expecting? 93?
If your running an Ethanol mix weather it being E20 or E40 you need to tune for it, running a 93 map wont support ethanol and of course fuel pump will be all over the place..... i think lol
Yeah I'm aware of the required tune to match your fuel which is why I was asking what tune he was running, to understand the logs better.


On a side note, got mine installed this weekend. Running E30 on a Stage 2+ Ethanol map and initial results look like a big improvement over stock. Custom tunning coming up next.
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      04-15-2019, 04:06 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_m235i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sea_m235i View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_H_O_M_A_S View Post
93oct
https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1552302396?log=1

E20
https://datazap.me/u/thomas/log-1552511070

same engine map different fuel . what do you think ?

Am I reading that wrong or is the rail pressure all over the place? And what fuel is this map expecting? 93?
If your running an Ethanol mix weather it being E20 or E40 you need to tune for it, running a 93 map wont support ethanol and of course fuel pump will be all over the place..... i think lol
Yeah I'm aware of the required tune to match your fuel which is why I was asking what tune he was running, to understand the logs better.


On a side note, got mine installed this weekend. Running E30 on a Stage 2+ Ethanol map and initial results look like a big improvement over stock. Custom tunning coming up next.
Good work, is it plug & play or does it need to be tuned for?
Ive got M2 running E20 OTS MHD map and this is the maximum i can run....
Definitely need a HPFP upgrade, would love to go E40 or E50.
My log for comparison
https://datazap.me/u/mattspies/log-1...8;zoom=181-309
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      04-15-2019, 04:44 PM   #94
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WOW this is really cool. Sometimes I'll hit the fuel cut when running E30 fuel and bm3 E30 tune close to redline. Looks like the B58 HPFP will solve that issue. Thanks for the post.
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      04-15-2019, 04:54 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricki View Post
Good work, is it plug & play or does it need to be tuned for?
Ive got M2 running E20 OTS MHD map and this is the maximum i can run....
Definitely need a HPFP upgrade, would love to go E40 or E50.
My log for comparison
https://datazap.me/u/mattspies/log-1...9&zoom=181-309
It works plug and play (minus the modifications needed to make it fit) with the MHD OTS maps. I'm still running the MHD Stg 2+ E20 map (with E30 fuel) and the pump seems happy. With that said, a custom tune should be able to take full advantage of the B58 pump and allow me to tune a true E30 or E40 map. I'm working on that next. Earlier posts on N54 Tech seem to say that E40 is the limit of the B58 pump before it struggles. PureBoost indicated this as well I believe.

Your log appears to look like your N55 hpfp is handling E20 much better than mine was, but it's hard to tell as there is no rail pressure target available, so you can't tell what the pump is trying to target. Still doesn't look like it is crashing though. That log was on E20?
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Last edited by sea_m235i; 04-15-2019 at 05:22 PM..
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      04-15-2019, 04:59 PM   #96
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Can't someone test full E85 with stock turbo ?
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      04-15-2019, 05:15 PM   #97
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My pump crashes on BM3 E30 tune enough to cause knock on logs. Really hope this is a decent solution. How long did the install take?
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      04-15-2019, 05:30 PM   #98
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using stock turbo its look like a decent upgrade , ps2 or else youll need the xdi so it seems

nice work with the retrofit sea_m235i
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      04-15-2019, 06:20 PM   #99
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So I spoke to pure today and they said we could see 420whp with stock fueling on n55 ewg with ps2.
With custom tuning from cary.
Why wouldnt this be a nice mild bump for those who dont wanna take it all the way to pi....

An extra 2 or 3 lbs of boost is huge. And would be noticeable
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      04-15-2019, 06:33 PM   #100
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do xdi and e20 , reliable easy setup , no extra controllers or injectors etc .
DME controlled fuel supply .
check out this dyno sheet from a friend of mine on his xdi/ps2 setup
he is doing 22psi tapering to 18 so he told me .
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      04-15-2019, 07:08 PM   #101
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Dont wanna run E. And not in a position to drop 2k plus with Frank right now.

That's why this is such an intriguing idea
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      04-15-2019, 07:35 PM   #102
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Thanks Thomas I appreciate all the info you shared on this previously that made it much easier.

To Mojo - install took about 6+ hours. Taking my time and making sure everything was done carefully. There were a few gotchas that if I did it again would save me time. Getting some of the plugs on the DME was a major PITA

As far as XDI - it clearly is the better pump for big turbo setups. But I have no reason to believe that the B58 pump paired with Methanol would not be a great big turbo platform also....if you're not adverse to running meth that is. That may be the direction I go if I decide to go with a larger turbo.
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      04-20-2019, 11:21 AM   #103
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Xtreme-DI introduction

Hi Everybody,
this is Uwe Ostmann, founder and owner of Xtreme-DI. Thanks for having us here !!
http://www.xtreme-di.com/who-we-are/



We as in Xtreme-DI are a new business with the only one focus which is Direct Injection Fuel Systems !
This is my first post in this Forum. I usually don't take part in Internet discussions, since I strive to always respond in time with quality feedback.
We do provide solutions for more and more vehicle brands worldwide. We do not yet have the resources to take part in every discussion.
So please be patient with us in this Forum. I know there will be a lot of questions.
This being said, I will start to reply to some of the posts in here with as much information as I have in hand right now. I will work on more engineering and educational material over time. Again please be patient when we don't reply to questions as soon as you expect.

www.xtreme-di.com
http://www.xtreme-di.com/product/bmw-n55-hpfp/
https://www.facebook.com/Xtreme-DI-LLC-329134990577693/
https://www.instagram.com/xtreme.di/
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      04-20-2019, 11:44 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDI View Post
Hi Everybody,
this is Uwe Ostmann, founder and owner of Xtreme-DI. Thanks for having us here !!
http://www.xtreme-di.com/who-we-are/



We as in Xtreme-DI are a new business with the only one focus which is Direct Injection Fuel Systems !
This is my first post in this Forum. I usually don't take part in Internet discussions, since I strive to always respond in time with quality feedback.
We do provide solutions for more and more vehicle brands worldwide. We do not yet have the resources to take part in every discussion.
So please be patient with us in this Forum. I know there will be a lot of questions.
This being said, I will start to reply to some of the posts in here with as much information as I have in hand right now. I will work on more engineering and educational material over time. Again please be patient when we don't reply to questions as soon as you expect.

www.xtreme-di.com
http://www.xtreme-di.com/product/bmw-n55-hpfp/
https://www.facebook.com/Xtreme-DI-LLC-329134990577693/
https://www.instagram.com/xtreme.di/
Thanks for showing some love on this forum!!

Feel free to direct message me regarding a group buy i have put together.

The B58 pump seems to be a great upgrade for the stock turbo and perhaps those of us with PS2 wanting to bump boost to just under 20psi.

Currently running 16psi across the RPM band to redline and my car is a beast. Still have a rail pressure dip around 5500rpms but only drops to 2000psi.

here is a log:

https://datazap.me/u/munchi/ps2-test...data=4-6-19-20
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      04-20-2019, 01:52 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrien78 View Post
It has been said on the other forum, and it seems very interesting to me.

The "HDP5" fuel pump on N55 (BMW 13518604231 / Bosch 261520283) seems to run at 1.12cc but the "HDP5 Evo" version (BMW 13517642466 / Bosch 0261520258) runs at 1.2cc according to Bosch specifications.

XDI says their hpfp deliver 1.22cc, really close from the Evo version.

http://www.xtreme-di.com/product/bmw-n55-hpfp/

I don't mean bullshit but, in this case, why the Evo one would not be suitable to run more fuel and go 100% E85 ?
Let me take this point and explain in detail:

This is the most important part when comparing HPFPs for size / capacity / fuel flow etc.
And this is also the biggest misunderstanding in the aftermarket as well.
All piston/plunger style direct injection high pressure fuel pumps are driven by a cam lobe, either on one of the main engine cams or on auxiliary cam like in the BMW N55 and S55.



To all N54 guys, you have a rotary style Conti pump, this is all different for you !! I will try to explain in a different thread later.

The fuel flow capacity of a piston style HPFP is calculated very similar to engine air flow capacity.
Geometric size (displacement) x Volumetric efficiency

Same similarity for geometric size, it is bore and stroke and number of pistons (or number of strokes).

HPFP Volumetric Capacity = Piston Area X Stroke of cam lobe X Number of lobes per pump revolution

Let's take some time to think about this. Stroke of CAM-lobe and number of lobes. This has nothing to do with the pump itself, that we bolt on top of this.

Piston Area = (Piston Bore X Piston Bore X PI) / 4


Piston bore, this is the piston or plunger diameter. This is the only thing in the actual HPFP, that defines the volumetric capacity of an HPFP.
Now here the fact that nobody knows, all Bosch HDP5 variants have the same piston diameter of 9.0mm, even the HDP5 evo !!!
Our XDI-HPFP35 has a Piston diameter of 10.5mm and the XDI-HPFP60 has an 11.5mm piston diameter.

When Bosch states in their datasheets, that the HDP5 has a maximum delivery quantity of 1.12cmm and the HDP5 Evo has a maximum delivery quantity of 1.2cmm, that just means that this is maximum possible with any pump of this family (there is more than 200 variants in production worldwide).




The actual delivery capacity is defined by the lobe profile.

So where is the difference between HDP5 and HDP5 evo on the Bosch datasheet coming from now?
The HDP5 is in production since more than 10years, it was validated back in the day for the "biggest" cam-profile at the time, which is a 4-lobe design with 4.4mm stroke per lobe, let's call this 4x4.4-lobe. This lobe can be found in the Ford Focus RS, Mustang 2.3L EB and Taurus SHO (just some examples). This lobe design comes with some issues, you cannot spin the cam faster than 3250rpm (6500 engine rpm), or the pump piston will start to float (yes like a valve).

Here some math examples for the 4x4.4 lobe:



At the far left two examples you can find the 1.12cmm Volume that you see in the HDP5 Datasheet.
You can also see, that on the 4x4.4-lobe our XDI-HPFP35 has a capacity of 1.524cmm which is 36% more (guess where the name HPFP35 is coming from )
Our XDI-HPFP60 has a capacity of 1.828cmm on that 4x4.4-lobe (which is 63% more, same coincidence )

Now the same math for the brand new 4x4.7-lobe.
Bosch validated this one lately for the HDP5 evo, doesnt mean you cannot put the HDP5 on the same lobe, it was just not validated for it:



There is the 1.2cmm that Bosch claims for the HDP5 evo !
And again, if you bolt our XDI-HPFP35/60 on this 4x4.7-lobe, you have the same 36%/63% more capacity. This is valid for every lobe profile.

Now the one that we are all interested in, the BMW-N55 !!

Darn BMW !! They just gave us 3 lobes at 4.7mm stroke each
Why is that? Because they run the HPFP off the vacuum pump on an auxiliary cam-lobe and they spin more than 6500 engine rpm. Every OEM chooses the lobe-profile based on multiple criteria, rpm, package, fuel demand from power targets. There is all kinds of profiles from 3x2.5mm up to 4x4.7mm. Some OEMs even run 3x5.8mm.
Now you might think, why not change the camshaft, I know a guy that can grind cams. Believe me, that was the first idea we tried. That cam doesn't come out of the vacuum pump without damage.

Here the math for the BMW-N55 with all pump variants:



And there is the 0.897cmm that we claim in our XDI-HPFP35 datasheet for OEM-HPFP capacity and the 1.22cmm that we claim for XDI-HPFP35 capacity on N55 lobe.
Still no capacity gains with the HDP5 evo...

Before I explain why the HDP5 evo actually gains a little bit of flow, let me finish up with the capacity math.

The last example for this community that also nobody really knows, the S55.
You might think it is the same vacuum pump, just with two HDP5s...yes. Same lobe profile? NO !! The S55 has a 3x4.0mm lobe profile, smaller than the N55. For the given engine rpm and power targets, they chose to go with two HPFPs. This doubles up the HPFP capacity but with a risk of piston float and wear at higher rpm. Since they didn't need double the capacity for the power target, they reduced the risk for float and wear by reducing the stroke of the cam-lobe.
Here what that means in terms of HPFP capacity, for the ease of math I calculate with 6 lobes which equals two pumps on 3 lobes :



The HPFP volume / capacity of 1.527cmm that you see here with HDP5/HDP5 evo is what you get with the S55 dual HPFP setup.
This equals gains of 70% (yes just 70% not 100%) compared to the OEM-N55-HDP5 setup at 0.897cmm when you swap the S55 dual setup into the N55.
Worth mentioning here, that we achieve a capacity of 1.465cmm or 63% gains with one single bolt on XDI-HPFP60 on the N55 vacuum pump that the N55 comes with

I bet there is some guys doing the math already for the far right example.
Yes imagine what you could do with dual XDI-HPFP60s on the S55 vacuum pump !!!
This variant at 2.493cmm equals gains of 177% compared to HDP5 on single N55 lobe. Who is ready to build the engine for this baby ???

Still the open question, why do people see gains when mounting an HDP5-evo from the B58 on the N55 ?

It is the volumetric efficiency that Bosch has improved for the HDP5 evo!
If you look closely at the Bosch datasheet, you can see the minimum volumetric efficiency of 85% for the HDP5 vs. 90% for the HDP5 evo.
This means the HDP5 just delivers 85% of the possible 0.897cmm and the HDP5-evo delivers 90% of the possible 0.897cmm on N55-lobe.


And again this is not a general value, this HPFP-VE changes with load, rpm and lobe profile again. It is a generic value for the HDP5/HDP5-evo family.
To achieve this better VE, Bosch modified the internals of the HDP5-evo to optimize filling of the high pressure chamber in the HPFP and the overall flow through the different parts of the pump.



This being said, our XDI-HPFP35 has a 36% capacity advantage over the HDP5-evo. Even subtracting 5% for VE, we still gain 31% flow capacity overall. For all the B58 guys out there, we started working on your upgrade.

www.xtreme-di.com
http://www.xtreme-di.com/product/bmw-n55-hpfp/
https://www.facebook.com/Xtreme-DI-LLC-329134990577693/
https://www.instagram.com/xtreme.di/
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Last edited by XDI; 04-20-2019 at 02:32 PM.. Reason: forgot tags, details
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      04-20-2019, 02:30 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDI View Post
This is the most important part when comparing HPFPs for size / capacity / fuel flow etc....

Welcome XDI! May I suggest creating your own thread with the information you just shared? Having your own thread will allow you to better follow and/or manage conversations/questions...

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      04-20-2019, 04:11 PM   #107
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thanks for the clarification , it explains why its only a little bit better and e20 didnt fair well either with the evo pump
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      04-20-2019, 08:39 PM   #108
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Alot of N55 guys would jump at the XDI35 but its the cost that is sooooo Extreme.
Eg... im in Australia and $2295 USD equates to $3200 AUD which is just crazzzzy!!!
Im sure lots of R&D has gone into this but more than double of a stock HPFP 🤷🏽*♂️
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      04-20-2019, 10:54 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricki View Post
Alot of N55 guys would jump at the XDI35 but its the cost that is sooooo Extreme.
Eg... im in Australia and $2295 USD equates to $3200 AUD which is just crazzzzy!!!
Im sure lots of R&D has gone into this but more than double of a stock HPFP 🤷🏽*♂️
Supply and demand my friend
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      04-20-2019, 11:04 PM   #110
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Prices are Xtreme 😂 maybe black friday sale 🤷*♂️ And Make the XDI-60 $2000
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