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      07-23-2019, 11:21 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
I dont believe that a 2 mile high glacier is going to cover Chicago by 2050. But i do believe that we are heading into cooler times and that adjustments will need to be made to sustain proper food supplies.

Is the sky falling? Nah. Is anybody noticing empty shelves in the canned veggie areas in your local walmarts?
Thanks for posting these covers of Time. I may have to resurrect the Spectacularly Wrong thread on climate change and add them to it!
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      07-24-2019, 12:30 AM   #90
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Look at the cliff faces in cali and how then drop off (steeply) right down to the beach. On the east coast one can see it disappearing westward for sure.

Could it be soil erosion? Or rising sea levels? Water levels here at the beaches i frequent here in vancouver are the same as they have been all my life.

Edit:

Last edited by Zugzwang; 07-24-2019 at 03:04 AM..
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      07-24-2019, 09:21 PM   #91
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      07-24-2019, 09:41 PM   #92
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I think this guys going too far. But whatevz
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      07-25-2019, 07:43 PM   #93
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      07-25-2019, 11:25 PM   #94
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Last edited by Zugzwang; 07-25-2019 at 11:32 PM..
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      07-27-2019, 09:10 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
I do believe the oceans are rising-this seems to be factual; especially living in Miami or on low lying islands in the Atlantic. Some of the other manifestations may not be attributable to global warming but could eventually be blamed. It will likely be too late to effect change once realized.
Sea levels have been rising at a relatively steady rate for over a hundred years based on tide gauge measurements.

Here is the NOAA tide gauge data from Key West Florida which shows a rising sea level trend of 2.42 mm/year for over a hundred years:

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sl...tml?id=8724580

Here is the same tide gauge data with CO2 levels (from ice cores <1958 + measured at Mauna Loa >1958) over the same time period:

http://sealevel.info/MSL_graph.php?id=key+west

From the above you can see there is clearly no correlation between sea level rise and the recent accelerating rise in atmospheric CO2 levels over the past 60 years since measurements have been taken at Mauna Loa. The sea level at Key West Florida is rising at ~2.42 mm/year regardless of atmospheric CO2 level. Other tide gauges around the world show similar lack of correlation; however, some tide gauges show different rates of sea level rise or fall depending on the rate of change of the land surface elevation (either rise or fall).
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      07-28-2019, 05:34 PM   #96
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So, the polar ice caps are melting but that isn't due to global warming and the rising seal levels of 100 years isn't due to the melting of the ice caps and torrential rains with super storms isn't caused by anything either-its just naturally occurring weather?

I think there are manifestations of change blamed on global warming but some of them are likely due to global warming. Especially the increased industrial output of pollutants from China who just recently became a player in this arena in the past 50 years
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      07-28-2019, 06:01 PM   #97
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Starting at time of posting. Its live. Feel free to ask questions.
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      07-28-2019, 06:13 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post

From the above you can see there is clearly no correlation between sea level rise and the recent accelerating rise in atmospheric CO2 levels over the past 60 years since measurements have been taken at Mauna Loa. The sea level at Key West Florida is rising at ~2.42 mm/year regardless of atmospheric CO2 level. Other tide gauges around the world show similar lack of correlation; however, some tide gauges show different rates of sea level rise or fall depending on the rate of change of the land surface elevation (either rise or fall).
You are an example of someone who does not grasp science. A 12th grade high school student would not make the assumption that ocean rise and CO2 increase need to be comparatively co-linear. I am guessing you never had Calculus or even advanced math. Scheesch.

Ice is melting, albedo is decreasing, lots of positive and negative feedbacks.

But the point is that CO2 has never been above 280ppm in 800,000 years and in less than 150 years it increased 130 ppm.

So ....oh forget it.... Im going to band practice.
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      07-28-2019, 06:33 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
You are an example of someone who does not grasp science. A 12th grade high school student would not make the assumption that ocean rise and CO2 increase need to be comparatively co-linear. I am guessing you never had Calculus or even advanced math. Scheesch.
I have a better grasp of true science than those that blindly accept CO2 driven climate change without question.

I've been an electrical engineer for almost 30 years. I studied plenty of calculus and advanced math to get that degree and graduated magna cum laude. The one thing an engineering degree teaches you is how to think, not what to think.

It is apparent that you can't argue the subject because all you do is attack me personally rather than address the subject with anything of substance.
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      07-28-2019, 07:28 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by irishbimmer View Post
So, the polar ice caps are melting but that isn't due to global warming and the rising seal levels of 100 years isn't due to the melting of the ice caps and torrential rains with super storms isn't caused by anything either-its just naturally occurring weather?
What exactly do you mean by "the polar ice caps are melting"? What time period are we talking about? The arctic sea ice melts some each summer and re-freezes each winter. The amount of ice in the arctic is lower now than 1979 when official records were started, but that was the end of a long term cooling trend in the northern hemisphere. Over the past 15 or so years, arctic sea ice trends have been stable. If I get to pick the starting and ending points of a graph of a cyclical variable like arctic ice extent, I can show any trend you want.

https://realclimatescience.com/2018/...-eleven-years/

The amount of ice in the arctic now is likely higher than it was in the 1930's when record high temperatures were occurring in the northern hemisphere and CO2 levels were relatively low at that time. But records of arctic ice extent during that time are limited. The point is that currently rising CO2 levels are having little if any effect on arctic sea ice.

The southern ice cap, Antarctica, is currently gaining ice mass on land, so rising CO2 levels aren't having a detrimental effect there either.

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard...er-than-losses

Torrential rains and "super storms" aren't anything new and these events also happened before when CO2 levels were low. Ever hear of the Great Hurricane of 1780 or The Great Galveston Hurricane of 1900 or the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927? The weather we are seeing now is nothing remarkable and is completely within the range of naturally occurring weather variability.
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      07-28-2019, 09:45 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
I have a better grasp of true science than those that blindly accept CO2 driven climate change without question.
OK electrical engineer genius..I'm a M.E. why is the earth getting warmer. Please tell me what the mechanism that has caused the earth to have the 20 warmest years in the last 25 (since say 1890. And while you are at it (math genius) [actually its a very simple statistics problem] pleas give me the approximate statistical probability of this occurring. You have all night to figure it out or find it on wikipedia.

Maybe EE's don't get the same training as MEs. We are taught to consider linking cause and effect if there is a probabilistic reason to do so.
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      07-28-2019, 11:31 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
why is the earth getting warmer.
Since you are an ME, I'll keep this simple.

Changes in the amount of insolation (incoming solar radiation) are the most likely cause of large-scale changes in Earth's climate,i.e. related to the topic of this thread (Grand Solar Minimum). The earth exited the last ice age ~12,000 years ago as a result of warming when CO2 levels were low. CO2 levels remained low (<300ppm) until around the turn of the 20th century. Since the end of the last ice age, warm periods existed when CO2 levels were low, i.e. the Roman Warm Period approximately 2000 years ago and the Medieval Warm Period approximately 1000 years ago. The Vikings settled on Greenland during the Medieval Warm Period. Evidence indicates the earth was as warm or warmer during the those two warm periods than currently. CO2 levels were low during those warm periods. Elevated CO2 levels did not exist during the Roman Warm Period or the Medieval Warm Period as indicated by ice core data and thus it is concluded that warming occurred during those time periods absent elevated atmospheric CO2 levels. Something else caused the earth to warm during those periods, most likely changes in the sun's output or the amount of solar radiation reaching the earth.

Quote:
Please tell me what the mechanism that has caused the earth to have the 20 warmest years in the last 25 (since say 1890).
Data manipulation and fabrication. Also, data inaccuracy due to elimination of rural temperature reporting stations in the last 30 or so years and the Urban Heat Island (UHI) effect on the remaining temperature reporting stations in urban areas resulting in elevated measured temperatures. It has little if anything to do with rising CO2 levels. Do you honestly believe that 20 of the last 25 years are the warmest years on earth in the past 129 years? If so, I find it hard to believe that educated people are this easily taken in.
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      07-28-2019, 11:59 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
Since you are an ME, I'll keep this simple.

Changes in the amount of insolation (incoming solar radiation) are the most likely cause of large-scale changes in Earth's climate,i.e. related to the topic of this thread (Grand Solar Minimum). Something else caused the earth to warm during those periods, most likely changes in the sun's output or the amount of solar radiation reaching the earth.
Its such a little known fact (likely on purpose) that greenhouse gasses reflect incoming heat away from earth in the same fashion that traps heat back onto the planet. Its an insulator thats doing what insulation does. Its not a one way door up above our heads you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
Data manipulation and fabrication.
Any scientific study can be manipulated for desired results. This is how lobbyists convince governments and institutions to give them money.

Eg. It can be surmised people who smoke ten cigarettes a day tend to have healthier teeth and gums than people who smoke crack ten times a day. Ergo smoking is healthy for your teeth.

Now in a paper or radio/tv commercial one may learn this fact. But in a university study thats been repeatedly proven through scientific research that smoking is good for your teeth, the fashion as to how the the deduction was made doesn't see ink. Only the results get released but no other specifics on how the study was conducted. This is how its done.

Msm has the world convinced that the emperor (reality) is wearing new clothes.

Great post arkie.

Last edited by Zugzwang; 07-29-2019 at 05:04 AM..
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      07-29-2019, 05:06 AM   #104
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One can tell that this guy is being very careful with his youtube channel. He knows he is starting to get within the realm on censorship/demonetization. Still he manages to say a lot.
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      07-29-2019, 11:45 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
Since you are an ME, I'll keep this simple.

Changes in the amount of insolation (incoming solar radiation) are the most likely cause of large-scale changes in Earth's climate,i.e. related to the topic of this thread (Grand Solar Minimum). The earth exited the last ice age ~12,000 years ago as a result of warming when CO2 levels were low. CO2 levels remained low (<300ppm) until around the turn of the 20th century. Since the end of the last ice age, warm periods existed when CO2 levels were low, i.e. the Roman Warm Period approximately 2000 years ago and the Medieval Warm Period approximately 1000 years ago. The Vikings settled on Greenland during the Medieval Warm Period. Evidence indicates the earth was as warm or warmer during the those two warm periods than currently. CO2 levels were low during those warm periods. Elevated CO2 levels did not exist during the Roman Warm Period or the Medieval Warm Period as indicated by ice core data and thus it is concluded that warming occurred during those time periods absent elevated atmospheric CO2 levels. Something else caused the earth to warm during those periods, most likely changes in the sun's output or the amount of solar radiation reaching the earth.
These "warm periods" were for specific locations not Gobal in nature. Nor are they well documented. Incoming solar radiation where? Entering the Exosphere or the Troposphere-big difference. If you say Exosphere-you are wrong. Solar cycles are not relevant in the big picture.



Quote:
Data manipulation and fabrication. Also, data inaccuracy due to elimination of rural temperature reporting stations in the last 30 or so years and the Urban Heat Island (UHI) effect on the remaining temperature reporting stations in urban areas resulting in elevated measured temperatures. It has little if anything to do with rising CO2 levels. Do you honestly believe that 20 of the last 25 years are the warmest years on earth in the past 129 years? If so, I find it hard to believe that educated people are this easily taken in.
Again-get your facts straiht- you are presenting nothing to argue..no documentation. And yea there is always the fall-back on data manipulation. There is always a percentage of researched data that are wrong in every field.
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      07-29-2019, 12:01 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Zugzwang View Post
Its such a little known fact (likely on purpose) that greenhouse gasses reflect incoming heat away from earth in the same fashion that traps heat back onto the planet. Its an insulator thats doing what insulation does. Its not a one way door up above our heads you know.
Of course not but the percentage of Albedo is lower for gasses like CO2 bc they scatter UV and change it into Infrared. O2 an N2 pass UV and do not convert it to Infrared. You really do not understand this? (Rhetorical Question)



Quote:
Any scientific study can be manipulated for desired results. This is how lobbyists convince governments and institutions to give them money.

Yep that is why all the Universities research departments have concluded there is MMGW to get funding-hint: they don't. Now the esteemed Heartland Institute is another matter.


Quote:
Eg. It can be surmised people who smoke ten cigarettes a day tend to have healthier teeth and gums than people who smoke crack ten times a day. Ergo smoking is healthier for your teeth than crack.
Fixed it for ya

Quote:
Now in a paper or radio/tv commercial one may learn this fact. But in a university study thats been repeatedly proven through scientific research that smoking is good for your teeth, the fashion as to how the the deduction was made doesn't see ink. Only the results get released but no other specifics on how the study was conducted. This is how its done.
How about staying on track

I ask again..what is the mechanism that is warming the earth
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      07-29-2019, 12:57 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Of course not but the percentage of Albedo is lower for gasses like CO2 bc they scatter UV and change it into Infrared. O2 an N2 pass UV and do not convert it to Infrared. You really do not understand this? (Rhetorical Question)




Yep that is why all the Universities research departments have concluded there is MMGW to get funding-hint: they don't. Now the esteemed Heartland Institute is another matter.



Fixed it for ya


How about staying on track

I ask again..what is the mechanism that is warming the earth


A glimpse into how greenhouse gasses work.
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      07-29-2019, 01:49 PM   #108
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Last edited by adc100; 07-29-2019 at 01:58 PM..
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      07-29-2019, 01:57 PM   #109
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Yawn it didn't answer the question. He didn't discuss the difference between a Polar Co-valent bond and a diatomic molecule .

So you haven't addressed the question..."Which molecule N2 or CO2 scatters UV and turns much of it into Infrared.

And of course you have not addressed why the global temp of the earth is increasing in the last 130 years. Actually you haven't addressed any of the facts or questions I have presented to you.

Maybe one of your denier buddies on here can help you you are failing.. Why don't you pick a topic you are knowledgeable on. Bring one up and we can discuss that. It can be any topic on EE. I am an ME but I spent lots of time doing EE work in the Nuclear power industry. I promise I won't go to wikepedia for answers.

I'll be back near my bedtime. Cheers:
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      07-29-2019, 02:12 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Yawn it didn't answer the question. He didn't discuss the difference between a Polar Co-valent bond and a diatomic molecule .

So you haven't addressed the question..."Which molecule N2 or CO2 scatters UV and turns much of it into Infrared.

And of course you have not addressed why the global temp of the earth is increasing in the last 130 years. Actually you haven't addressed any of the facts or questions I have presented to you.

Maybe one of your denier buddies on here can help you you are failing.. Why don't you pick a topic you are knowledgeable on. Bring one up and we can discuss that. It can be any topic on EE. I am an ME but I spent lots of time doing EE work in the Nuclear power industry. I promise I won't go to wikepedia for answers.

I'll be back near my bedtime. Cheers:
His buddy kitesurfer is banned, apparently. Who else can he turn to?
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