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      09-20-2019, 05:19 PM   #1
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BM3 ACN Stage 2 91 Octane Boost Spike

I have been running the beta and now release Stage 2 91 Octane ACN map on my 535 EWG N55.

The map targets 15 PSI, but during initial WOT it spikes to 19-21 PSI consistently then tapers down to near the targeted 15 PSI.

I tested the non-ACN Stage 2 91 octane map, and it does not do this. Timing was not as consistent on this map so I chose to drop down to the ACN map.

Spike to 19PSI: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d84e0c1ae729b67235fe9d8
Spike to 21PSI: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d4f13e2ae729b5066de3b1f

Non ACN Map no spike: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d5b547bc090c644c52e0f32

What could be causing this spike?
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      09-20-2019, 10:13 PM   #2
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Not sure exactly what could be causing it, but i remember reading in some other threads where someone was in the exact same situation as you - saw timing issues in non-ACN map due to crappy west coast 91 gas, switched to ACN map and started getting boost spikes/overboost that were not present in non ACN map.

Sorry i can't help, but i'm pretty sure you are not the only one. I did not see a resolution on there, might want to send your logs for review and ask the question.
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      09-21-2019, 12:07 AM   #3
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Looks like the wastegate didn't open soon enough, which is why it spiked. I think the ACN map is relatively new, right? Might still need a lot of bugs worked out.
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      09-21-2019, 01:24 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eschmacher View Post
Looks like the wastegate didn't open soon enough, which is why it spiked. I think the ACN map is relatively new, right? Might still need a lot of bugs worked out.
That's what I was possibly thinking as well.

Would be interesting to see if others are experiencing the same?

I see where you're saying the wdgc was at 100% right away.
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      09-21-2019, 02:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
That's what I was possibly thinking as well.

Would be interesting to see if others are experiencing the same?

I see where you're saying the wdgc was at 100% right away.
I just took a look at the 21psi log. The boost spike you are referring to is pre-throttle right? It looks like MAP overshoots boost target to 18.7 psi (15 target), resulting in a throttle closure, which spikes pre-throttle boost to 21.7 psi (probably because of the throttle closure). Once the throttle opens back up, MAP and pre-throttle boost even out closer to target as the WG gets boost under control.

I'm not sure what the time resolution of the log is but the WGDC goes from 100% to 67% at the next point. Agree it seems like the WG should have started to open a bit earlier to prevent the overboost. The throttl closure was probably just to get the MAP boost under control while the WG started to open.
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      09-21-2019, 08:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
That's what I was possibly thinking as well.

Would be interesting to see if others are experiencing the same?

I see where you're saying the wdgc was at 100% right away.
I just took a look at the 21psi log. The boost spike you are referring to is pre-throttle right? It looks like MAP overshoots boost target to 18.7 psi (15 target), resulting in a throttle closure, which spikes pre-throttle boost to 21.7 psi (probably because of the throttle closure). Once the throttle opens back up, MAP and pre-throttle boost even out closer to target as the WG gets boost under control.

I'm not sure what the time resolution of the log is but the WGDC goes from 100% to 67% at the next point. Agree it seems like the WG should have started to open a bit earlier to prevent the overboost. The throttl closure was probably just to get the MAP boost under control while the WG started to open.
Yeah that's exactly what I'm seeing too.

PTF reaches out and said there will be an update coming to the ACN maps. That makes me believe it's tune related that this is occurring.
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      09-22-2019, 03:11 PM   #7
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I'm currently running this map as well (Stage 2 ACN91)
Haven't run logs since switching yet. It's felt mostly smooth but concerned about overboosting. I had assumed this ACN map was running a safer PSI level than regular Stage 2.
Would it be worth adding boost by gear reduction until an update is released?
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      09-23-2019, 12:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
I'm currently running this map as well (Stage 2 ACN91)
Haven't run logs since switching yet. It's felt mostly smooth but concerned about overboosting. I had assumed this ACN map was running a safer PSI level than regular Stage 2.
Would it be worth adding boost by gear reduction until an update is released?
Would you mind taking some logs and see if you're getting the same issue?
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      10-18-2019, 12:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
Would you mind taking some logs and see if you're getting the same issue?
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da91b1bc090c62a7c2c082d
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da91b1ac090c62a7c2c082c

I finally had a chance to take some quick logs. I did not notice any boost spiking. I am waiting for PTF to review and advise as well.
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      10-19-2019, 04:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
Would you mind taking some logs and see if you're getting the same issue?
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da91b1bc090c62a7c2c082d
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da91b1ac090c62a7c2c082c

I finally had a chance to take some quick logs. I did not notice any boost spiking. I am waiting for PTF to review and advise as well.
PTF believes they figured out my overboost situation. Because I'm ramping on the throttle instead of flooring it quickly, it can cause boost spike and that this occurs even in stock map to reduce boost lag. Interesting.

I stopped using the ACN map and went to the standard 91 stage 2 map with 4oz of boostane and everything feels and looks lot smoother.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da09eaaae729b215ebd6293
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      10-20-2019, 09:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
PTF believes they figured out my overboost situation. Because I'm ramping on the throttle instead of flooring it quickly, it can cause boost spike and that this occurs even in stock map to reduce boost lag. Interesting.

I stopped using the ACN map and went to the standard 91 stage 2 map with 4oz of boostane and everything feels and looks lot smoother.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da09eaaae729b215ebd6293
Doesn't your boost appear to be pretty significantly below target in this log?
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      10-21-2019, 03:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Doesn't your boost appear to be pretty significantly below target in this log?
You're right. It doesn't appear to get within 2psi of target. Unsure why. More emails to PTF now...
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      10-21-2019, 04:22 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
You're right. It doesn't appear to get within 2psi of target. Unsure why. More emails to PTF now...
Sounds like you are in a similar situation to me, but i am running MHD Stage 1. I have been chasing boost-below-target issues for a couple of weeks. Long story short, i have already removed and reinstalled IC+CP a couple times to verify no leaks. I can get close to target in 4th+ gear now, but i am way below in 1-2. I also sometimes get weird dips in my boost in a 4th gear pull, which dont appear when i do 1-2-3-4.

Your WGDC also looks very high for being below target boost. I am seeing in the mid-high 90s at points. Are you EWG or PWG? WGDC that high and being below target boost could be a boost leak. In my case, my WGDC isnt crazy high (low 80s), but yet i am still not reaching target boost.

Another thing that looks odd to me is the Load act vs target. Maybe this is different for BM3, but i thought your load actual should be way closer to load target, especially when you are off boost by only a few PSI. In my MHD logs, the discrepancy between Load act vs target is much smaller and pretty much only occurs when i have boost below target (as expected).

Also, this is probably just a BM3 thing but your boost target curve is totally flat whereas mine is variable in MHD.

Some of my logs and discussion is here, but not apples to apples since i am MHD:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post25366268
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      10-21-2019, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Sounds like you are in a similar situation to me, but i am running MHD Stage 1. I have been chasing boost-below-target issues for a couple of weeks. Long story short, i have already removed and reinstalled IC+CP a couple times to verify no leaks. I can get close to target in 4th+ gear now, but i am way below in 1-2. I also sometimes get weird dips in my boost in a 4th gear pull, which dont appear when i do 1-2-3-4.

Your WGDC also looks very high for being below target boost. I am seeing in the mid-high 90s at points. Are you EWG or PWG? WGDC that high and being below target boost could be a boost leak. In my case, my WGDC isnt crazy high (low 80s), but yet i am still not reaching target boost.

Another thing that looks odd to me is the Load act vs target. Maybe this is different for BM3, but i thought your load actual should be way closer to load target, especially when you are off boost by only a few PSI. In my MHD logs, the discrepancy between Load act vs target is much smaller and pretty much only occurs when i have boost below target (as expected).

Also, this is probably just a BM3 thing but your boost target curve is totally flat whereas mine is variable in MHD.

Some of my logs and discussion is here, but not apples to apples since i am MHD:

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...8#post25366268

Thanks for the description, I have plenty of logs where I am hitting target boost if not +1psi higher. However my WGDC has always been in the 90's since I flashed any of the tunes.

I sent PTF a message about the WGDC and not hitting boos targets. I'll see what they say and also try pulling a few more logs to see if I am hitting target now or potentially have a boost leak. Sometimes I feel they don't review the logs super in depth or maybe all of these things are non-issues? I really am not sure.

I am EWG.
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      10-21-2019, 07:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
Thanks for the description, I have plenty of logs where I am hitting target boost if not +1psi higher. However my WGDC has always been in the 90's since I flashed any of the tunes.

I sent PTF a message about the WGDC and not hitting boos targets. I'll see what they say and also try pulling a few more logs to see if I am hitting target now or potentially have a boost leak. Sometimes I feel they don't review the logs super in depth or maybe all of these things are non-issues? I really am not sure.

I am EWG.
If you were reaching/exceeding boost targets at one point and now are not on the same tune/same version, i would suspect hardware issue. I would also go back and take a look at those logs and see how your load actual vs target looks.

I felt the same way about MHD. I sent extremely detailed emails with numerous logs explaining my thoughts/concerns and i sometimes got literally once sentence replies. I am sure they get a lot of logs and their time is limited so i don't entirely blame them, which is why i posted my logs on the forums here to get other peoples input as well.

I would be interested to see one of your logs with a 1-2-3-4 pull to the top of 4th.
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      10-21-2019, 09:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
Thanks for the description, I have plenty of logs where I am hitting target boost if not +1psi higher. However my WGDC has always been in the 90's since I flashed any of the tunes.

I sent PTF a message about the WGDC and not hitting boos targets. I'll see what they say and also try pulling a few more logs to see if I am hitting target now or potentially have a boost leak. Sometimes I feel they don't review the logs super in depth or maybe all of these things are non-issues? I really am not sure.

I am EWG.
If you were reaching/exceeding boost targets at one point and now are not on the same tune/same version, i would suspect hardware issue. I would also go back and take a look at those logs and see how your load actual vs target looks.

I felt the same way about MHD. I sent extremely detailed emails with numerous logs explaining my thoughts/concerns and i sometimes got literally once sentence replies. I am sure they get a lot of logs and their time is limited so i don't entirely blame them, which is why i posted my logs on the forums here to get other peoples input as well.

I would be interested to see one of your logs with a 1-2-3-4 pull to the top of 4th.
I was able to do a quick 4th gear pull, it was dumping rain so don't mind the slight TC coming on at the top.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5dae415aae729b17a37e0745

Boost held fine with 75% wgdc this time. Which makes me feel like it's not a hardware issue even though I didn't go fully to redline.

Here is a kickdown pull they asked me to do. Here I'm not achieving target boost, they had no issue with this when I sent to them.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da09eaaae729b215ebd6293

Here is a 2-4th gear pull right after I switched to 4oz of boostane and the 91 stg 2. To me it almost looks like there isn't enough load or time in 2-3 to get peak boost then in 4th it's within .5-1 psi of target.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d9b4786ae729b71057f1426

Here is the ACN map from a couple weeks ago where I was very easily maintaining target.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d711731c090c6192c62f5d1

There just seems to be a lot of inconsistency between maps/pull/how the car reacts. This could be normal or not good. All I know is PTF says it's okay. Makes me want to get a custom tune and pay for the further communication from someone. Because as you said they probably get 100s of logs a day and don't always have the time to dig in fully.

I'll do a 1-4 pull and see what happens and report back.
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      10-21-2019, 10:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
I was able to do a quick 4th gear pull, it was dumping rain so don't mind the slight TC coming on at the top.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5dae415aae729b17a37e0745

Boost held fine with 75% wgdc this time. Which makes me feel like it's not a hardware issue even though I didn't go fully to redline.

Here is a kickdown pull they asked me to do. Here I'm not achieving target boost, they had no issue with this when I sent to them.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da09eaaae729b215ebd6293

Here is a 2-4th gear pull right after I switched to 4oz of boostane and the 91 stg 2. To me it almost looks like there isn't enough load or time in 2-3 to get peak boost then in 4th it's within .5-1 psi of target.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d9b4786ae729b71057f1426

Here is the ACN map from a couple weeks ago where I was very easily maintaining target.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d711731c090c6192c62f5d1

There just seems to be a lot of inconsistency between maps/pull/how the car reacts. This could be normal or not good. All I know is PTF says it's okay. Makes me want to get a custom tune and pay for the further communication from someone. Because as you said they probably get 100s of logs a day and don't always have the time to dig in fully.

I'll do a 1-4 pull and see what happens and report back.
Looking at these logs compared to my MHD logs is pretty interesting. For example, in the BM3 logs they seem to modulate throttle position a lot more, but have a completely flat boost target. MHD is the opposite - requested throttle position jumps to 100% right away at WOT and stays there unless you have a throttle closure (e.g., for protection), and boost target fluctuates a bit throughout a pull (following target load). In the first log, while it looks like you reach boost target right away, throttle angle is still low. Your MAP is above target for a bit, but drops below slightly when throttle angle reaching ~100%. You are right though, WGDC is way lower than the 90s in your other logs. Not sure why the inconsistency there. Again not sure why the huge difference in load. The throttle closure down to 28% in the beginning of the log causes a huge pre throttle boost spike.

Looking at the 2nd log, the throttle angle is totally different and more what i see in my MHD logs - it immediately jumps to 100%, and your boost does not reach target. This makes me think you only reached target boost in the first log because of the throttle position regulation. This log also had higher WGDC again... and you can see the WGDC increasing, presumably trying to bring boost to target but unsuccessfully. This log looks more like what i am seeing in my MHD stage 1 logs.

Did you link the right log for the 3rd one? I only see 2nd and 3rd at WOT. It looks like you have a throttle shortly after the 2-3 shift and one throttle reopens you drop below target boost again. WGDC is kindof all over the place too, but with the throttle closure and other stuff going on its hard to get any insight.

The ACN log looks the "best" in terms of WGDC and boost; its even over boost by a bit despite throttle being open 100%. Looks like the target boost is 15psi in ACN and non ACN log. The load target is very similar in the 1st log and the ACN log 4th gear pulls. I assume they are just pulling some timing for ACN log. Was the only concern with ACN the overboost? I didnt look at timing too much but in terms of everything else this log looks the cleanest. How did the car feel driving with this one?

I am interest to see if your 1-4 looks like mine and is consistent with your other observation - i said the exact same thing about not enough load or time to reach targets in 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd. In my 1-4 pulls i am way off (4-5psi) in 1st and 2nd, but get closer in 3rd, and can be within 1psi in top fo 4th.

Maybe we are both just obsessing because something doesn't "look" right in the logs, and this is all normal lol. Thats the double edged sword of having all this data at your fingertips.

FWIW MHD first said i have a boost leak, then i told them i reinstalled and was pretty confident i did not have one. They told me to reset adaptations, which i did and made basically no difference. I responded and they forwarded my log to another tuner and asked him to take a look, waiting for that reply now. I dont have a DP installed but could still do MHD stage 2 (just not 2+), which i thought about doing but the car drives completely fine with stage 1 right now so i am trying to stop obsessing over the logs and just enjoy the car for a while, with the intent to eventually get a DP and go from 1 to 2+
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      10-22-2019, 12:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
I was able to do a quick 4th gear pull, it was dumping rain so don't mind the slight TC coming on at the top.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5dae415aae729b17a37e0745

Boost held fine with 75% wgdc this time. Which makes me feel like it's not a hardware issue even though I didn't go fully to redline.

Here is a kickdown pull they asked me to do. Here I'm not achieving target boost, they had no issue with this when I sent to them.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5da09eaaae729b215ebd6293

Here is a 2-4th gear pull right after I switched to 4oz of boostane and the 91 stg 2. To me it almost looks like there isn't enough load or time in 2-3 to get peak boost then in 4th it's within .5-1 psi of target.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d9b4786ae729b71057f1426

Here is the ACN map from a couple weeks ago where I was very easily maintaining target.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5d711731c090c6192c62f5d1

There just seems to be a lot of inconsistency between maps/pull/how the car reacts. This could be normal or not good. All I know is PTF says it's okay. Makes me want to get a custom tune and pay for the further communication from someone. Because as you said they probably get 100s of logs a day and don't always have the time to dig in fully.

I'll do a 1-4 pull and see what happens and report back.
Looking at these logs compared to my MHD logs is pretty interesting. For example, in the BM3 logs they seem to modulate throttle position a lot more, but have a completely flat boost target. MHD is the opposite - requested throttle position jumps to 100% right away at WOT and stays there unless you have a throttle closure (e.g., for protection), and boost target fluctuates a bit throughout a pull (following target load). In the first log, while it looks like you reach boost target right away, throttle angle is still low. Your MAP is above target for a bit, but drops below slightly when throttle angle reaching ~100%. You are right though, WGDC is way lower than the 90s in your other logs. Not sure why the inconsistency there. Again not sure why the huge difference in load. The throttle closure down to 28% in the beginning of the log causes a huge pre throttle boost spike.

Looking at the 2nd log, the throttle angle is totally different and more what i see in my MHD logs - it immediately jumps to 100%, and your boost does not reach target. This makes me think you only reached target boost in the first log because of the throttle position regulation. This log also had higher WGDC again... and you can see the WGDC increasing, presumably trying to bring boost to target but unsuccessfully. This log looks more like what i am seeing in my MHD stage 1 logs.

Did you link the right log for the 3rd one? I only see 2nd and 3rd at WOT. It looks like you have a throttle shortly after the 2-3 shift and one throttle reopens you drop below target boost again. WGDC is kindof all over the place too, but with the throttle closure and other stuff going on its hard to get any insight.

The ACN log looks the "best" in terms of WGDC and boost; its even over boost by a bit despite throttle being open 100%. Looks like the target boost is 15psi in ACN and non ACN log. The load target is very similar in the 1st log and the ACN log 4th gear pulls. I assume they are just pulling some timing for ACN log. Was the only concern with ACN the overboost? I didnt look at timing too much but in terms of everything else this log looks the cleanest. How did the car feel driving with this one?

I am interest to see if your 1-4 looks like mine and is consistent with your other observation - i said the exact same thing about not enough load or time to reach targets in 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd. In my 1-4 pulls i am way off (4-5psi) in 1st and 2nd, but get closer in 3rd, and can be within 1psi in top fo 4th.

Maybe we are both just obsessing because something doesn't "look" right in the logs, and this is all normal lol. Thats the double edged sword of having all this data at your fingertips.

FWIW MHD first said i have a boost leak, then i told them i reinstalled and was pretty confident i did not have one. They told me to reset adaptations, which i did and made basically no difference. I responded and they forwarded my log to another tuner and asked him to take a look, waiting for that reply now. I dont have a DP installed but could still do MHD stage 2 (just not 2+), which i thought about doing but the car drives completely fine with stage 1 right now so i am trying to stop obsessing over the logs and just enjoy the car for a while, with the intent to eventually get a DP and go from 1 to 2+
Hey, talking about MHD vs Bm3; isn't MHD load-based tuning vs Bm3 boost-based tuning ? That's why you see bm3 never comes close to required target?
Despite more features currently offered by MHD on n55 EWG, my bm3 stg2 93oct agg v6.3 runs better 0-60 and 1/4mile , confirmed in Draggy.

MHD's sport cooling feature is much better and it burns less motul engine oil... once switched back to bm3 (stock cooling and I am a high-rev spirited driver)higher temps burnt my engine oil from half from minimum to minimum within 500 miles., and I was on the way to NYC with idrive popping up"refill immediately within next 125 miles continued driving may cause engine DAMAGE". Now I'm using liqui moly molygen.. will see how it goes. Yea... I miss the sport cooling and startup roar. And many people say MHD is for PWG; while bm3 for EWG. And my butt dyno also prefers bm3 stg2 93 AGG V6.3 (not the lastest version, I have no burble in the latest)
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      10-22-2019, 08:55 AM   #19
Chancef32
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Don't forget the ACN maps are still fairly new they are still in beta and haven't been on the dyno yet.
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      10-22-2019, 11:04 AM   #20
trialmountain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
Looking at these logs compared to my MHD logs is pretty interesting. For example, in the BM3 logs they seem to modulate throttle position a lot more, but have a completely flat boost target. MHD is the opposite - requested throttle position jumps to 100% right away at WOT and stays there unless you have a throttle closure (e.g., for protection), and boost target fluctuates a bit throughout a pull (following target load). In the first log, while it looks like you reach boost target right away, throttle angle is still low. Your MAP is above target for a bit, but drops below slightly when throttle angle reaching ~100%. You are right though, WGDC is way lower than the 90s in your other logs. Not sure why the inconsistency there. Again not sure why the huge difference in load. The throttle closure down to 28% in the beginning of the log causes a huge pre throttle boost spike.

Looking at the 2nd log, the throttle angle is totally different and more what i see in my MHD logs - it immediately jumps to 100%, and your boost does not reach target. This makes me think you only reached target boost in the first log because of the throttle position regulation. This log also had higher WGDC again... and you can see the WGDC increasing, presumably trying to bring boost to target but unsuccessfully. This log looks more like what i am seeing in my MHD stage 1 logs.

Did you link the right log for the 3rd one? I only see 2nd and 3rd at WOT. It looks like you have a throttle shortly after the 2-3 shift and one throttle reopens you drop below target boost again. WGDC is kindof all over the place too, but with the throttle closure and other stuff going on its hard to get any insight.

The ACN log looks the "best" in terms of WGDC and boost; its even over boost by a bit despite throttle being open 100%. Looks like the target boost is 15psi in ACN and non ACN log. The load target is very similar in the 1st log and the ACN log 4th gear pulls. I assume they are just pulling some timing for ACN log. Was the only concern with ACN the overboost? I didnt look at timing too much but in terms of everything else this log looks the cleanest. How did the car feel driving with this one?

I am interest to see if your 1-4 looks like mine and is consistent with your other observation - i said the exact same thing about not enough load or time to reach targets in 1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd. In my 1-4 pulls i am way off (4-5psi) in 1st and 2nd, but get closer in 3rd, and can be within 1psi in top fo 4th.

Maybe we are both just obsessing because something doesn't "look" right in the logs, and this is all normal lol. Thats the double edged sword of having all this data at your fingertips.

FWIW MHD first said i have a boost leak, then i told them i reinstalled and was pretty confident i did not have one. They told me to reset adaptations, which i did and made basically no difference. I responded and they forwarded my log to another tuner and asked him to take a look, waiting for that reply now. I dont have a DP installed but could still do MHD stage 2 (just not 2+), which i thought about doing but the car drives completely fine with stage 1 right now so i am trying to stop obsessing over the logs and just enjoy the car for a while, with the intent to eventually get a DP and go from 1 to 2+
PTF said that the throttle closure and boost spike is normal, even in the stock logs. That this is to prevent boost lag. Still undecided how I feel about that?

Correct the ACN map seems to push the car the least while still targeting 15PSI but seems to target about 5 degrees less of timing overall. I initially switched from this map to because of the boost spikes (which I was told was OK), then because I wanted to try 4oz of boostane premium with the standard stg2 91 octane tune and finally because I felt it was slightly more inconsistent power pull to pull, partial throttle felt more jerky and so did cold starts. From what I've read, the partial throttle tables are not changed by PTF for their OTS tunes.

Us obsessing about it could be very true, but I'm still going to continue researching until I feel 100% comfortable about a tune on a relatively expensive car. This may be deciding to get a custom tune eventually.

That's cool that MHD forwarded to a tuner, will be interested to see what they say even if it doesn't apply to BM3.

I wasn't able to do the 1-4 pull this morning it was dumping rain and my usual on ramp had standing water on it. Soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancef32 View Post
Don't forget the ACN maps are still fairly new they are still in beta and haven't been on the dyno yet.
I received the actual beta tune, they released a non-beta tune now. However as you mentioned it has not been on a dyno yet.

They sent me an updated version of the original beta they sent me, but I still have boostane in my tank and want to go back to true pump gas before I try it again.
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      10-22-2019, 12:11 PM   #21
thejeremyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryGTX View Post
Hey, talking about MHD vs Bm3; isn't MHD load-based tuning vs Bm3 boost-based tuning ? That's why you see bm3 never comes close to required target?
Despite more features currently offered by MHD on n55 EWG, my bm3 stg2 93oct agg v6.3 runs better 0-60 and 1/4mile , confirmed in Draggy.

MHD's sport cooling feature is much better and it burns less motul engine oil... once switched back to bm3 (stock cooling and I am a high-rev spirited driver)higher temps burnt my engine oil from half from minimum to minimum within 500 miles., and I was on the way to NYC with idrive popping up"refill immediately within next 125 miles continued driving may cause engine DAMAGE". Now I'm using liqui moly molygen.. will see how it goes. Yea... I miss the sport cooling and startup roar. And many people say MHD is for PWG; while bm3 for EWG. And my butt dyno also prefers bm3 stg2 93 AGG V6.3 (not the lastest version, I have no burble in the latest)
You might be right - i forget the exact differences in the approach between the two tuners. I am not really concerned about tenths of a second in drag times, peak dyno numbers, etc. I just want a tune that works and i feel comfortable running on a daily. I debated between the two tune options and ended up just going MHD mostly for the android flash/logging. I'm sure i would have been happy with either.

Agree i do really like MHDs sport cooling feature. Even just in the middle (performance setting not track) it makes a pretty significant difference to coolant and oil temps. I dont drive at high revs for extended periods of time, usually just short bursts) so i haven't noticed any oil burning (or difference thereof).

Quote:
Originally Posted by trialmountain View Post
PTF said that the throttle closure and boost spike is normal, even in the stock logs. That this is to prevent boost lag. Still undecided how I feel about that?

Correct the ACN map seems to push the car the least while still targeting 15PSI but seems to target about 5 degrees less of timing overall. I initially switched from this map to because of the boost spikes (which I was told was OK), then because I wanted to try 4oz of boostane premium with the standard stg2 91 octane tune and finally because I felt it was slightly more inconsistent power pull to pull, partial throttle felt more jerky and so did cold starts. From what I've read, the partial throttle tables are not changed by PTF for their OTS tunes.

Us obsessing about it could be very true, but I'm still going to continue researching until I feel 100% comfortable about a tune on a relatively expensive car. This may be deciding to get a custom tune eventually.

That's cool that MHD forwarded to a tuner, will be interested to see what they say even if it doesn't apply to BM3.

I wasn't able to do the 1-4 pull this morning it was dumping rain and my usual on ramp had standing water on it. Soon!



I received the actual beta tune, they released a non-beta tune now. However as you mentioned it has not been on a dyno yet.

They sent me an updated version of the original beta they sent me, but I still have boostane in my tank and want to go back to true pump gas before I try it again.

I did logs when 100% stock, then with stock tune but IC+CP installed and i never saw any throttle closures or the "ramping" open of the throttle to control boost liek you are describing. Odd they would say it prevents boost lag; sure it makes the boost pressure build but only by restricting air flow? So it prevents boost lag but not power lag? I could be over simplifying though. Boost is just a measure of air flow resistance in a sense... FWIW i have done at least 20 logs and i have never seen throttle closure used to control boost in my logs. I saw a few ~3% throttle closures at random spots which i assume were protective.

If they are saying all the logs are safe, i would just pick the one that makes you feel the most comfortable and is the most consistent. Does the standard tune with more timing but boost under target feel better than the ACN with overboost but less timing? With an upgraded IC the slight overboost to ~16 psi should be fine; i think people run more than that anyways.

Interesting RE partial throttle; based on my observations i thought they were altered in the MHD tune (more boost/throttle % commanded at a given accelerator pedal position after tune).

I am in the same boat about continuing to research, and i plan to try and revise my boost leak tester this weekend to 100% eliminate that as a possibility. My driveability seems completely fine, no CEL/codes, and i have been told by MHD the tune is safe just below target boost, so i don't really have any concerns about using the tune as is in the meantime.
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      10-23-2019, 10:39 AM   #22
trialmountain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejeremyman9 View Post
You might be right - i forget the exact differences in the approach between the two tuners. I am not really concerned about tenths of a second in drag times, peak dyno numbers, etc. I just want a tune that works and i feel comfortable running on a daily. I debated between the two tune options and ended up just going MHD mostly for the android flash/logging. I'm sure i would have been happy with either.

Agree i do really like MHDs sport cooling feature. Even just in the middle (performance setting not track) it makes a pretty significant difference to coolant and oil temps. I dont drive at high revs for extended periods of time, usually just short bursts) so i haven't noticed any oil burning (or difference thereof).




I did logs when 100% stock, then with stock tune but IC+CP installed and i never saw any throttle closures or the "ramping" open of the throttle to control boost liek you are describing. Odd they would say it prevents boost lag; sure it makes the boost pressure build but only by restricting air flow? So it prevents boost lag but not power lag? I could be over simplifying though. Boost is just a measure of air flow resistance in a sense... FWIW i have done at least 20 logs and i have never seen throttle closure used to control boost in my logs. I saw a few ~3% throttle closures at random spots which i assume were protective.

If they are saying all the logs are safe, i would just pick the one that makes you feel the most comfortable and is the most consistent. Does the standard tune with more timing but boost under target feel better than the ACN with overboost but less timing? With an upgraded IC the slight overboost to ~16 psi should be fine; i think people run more than that anyways.

Interesting RE partial throttle; based on my observations i thought they were altered in the MHD tune (more boost/throttle % commanded at a given accelerator pedal position after tune).

I am in the same boat about continuing to research, and i plan to try and revise my boost leak tester this weekend to 100% eliminate that as a possibility. My driveability seems completely fine, no CEL/codes, and i have been told by MHD the tune is safe just below target boost, so i don't really have any concerns about using the tune as is in the meantime.
I agree, it never made sense to me either about the preventing boost lag. I did not do logs stock unfortunately so I cannot test it.

The standard tune feels a lot smoother and stronger than the ACN map. Which makes sense that it feels stronger due to the increased timing. I will be switching back to the ACN map they sent me after this tank is done and see if it feels better.

I do not have any major concerns, but did the 1-4 pull and had it pull some timing right after it shifted and started to ramp up. Timing always corrected back close to target though. See below, which makes me want to go back to the ACN and try again. The 92 gas in Seattle area really is bad. Third looks the worst, I'm not sure what it looks like when there is torque limits, but I do have the BM3 trans flash loaded. When it hit 4th it felt like it really opened up more.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5daf9d47ae729b17a37e0caa
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Last edited by trialmountain; 10-23-2019 at 10:49 AM..
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