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      10-15-2019, 10:51 AM   #23
AyrshireColin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post
My driving instructor told me never to trust someone who was indicating so not sure I would have braked hard on a roundabout for someone who was indicating to turn right from the left hand lane - well certainly not when driving in real time and not watching it back on a dash cam footage.

Whether the OP could have avoided her is a mute point - the Merc driver was in the wrong, turning right from left hand lane. Insurance cos will see that and settle. Dont think they can show OP was speeding from the footage so his speed cant be blamed - so they would have to say lack of due care and attention - which would be a push...

Lots of opinions of blame on here - who thinks the OPs will insurance will agree to any of the costs as driver at fault? That is all that matters...
I can't agree with this at all - to my mind both the OP and the A Class were both the wrong lane.

If the OP was intending to drive straight on at the round about they were in the wrong lane (the movement left suggests that was the intention) as the inside lane would be for exiting the roundabout beyond straight on. If the OP intended to stay on the roundabout they suffered some sort of twitch which made them drive into the A Class.

The A Class was in the wrong lane period but never turned right or turned into the OP's lane - they just appeared somewhat clueless. But the fact of the matter is that the A Class never turned into the OP, the OP was behind and turned into the A Class.

Last edited by AyrshireColin; 10-15-2019 at 10:57 AM..
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      10-15-2019, 10:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AyrshireColin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post
My driving instructor told me never to trust someone who was indicating so not sure I would have braked hard on a roundabout for someone who was indicating to turn right from the left hand lane - well certainly not when driving in real time and not watching it back on a dash cam footage.

Whether the OP could have avoided her is a mute point - the Merc driver was in the wrong, turning right from left hand lane. Insurance cos will see that and settle. Dont think they can show OP was speeding from the footage so his speed cant be blamed - so they would have to say lack of due care and attention - which would be a push...

Lots of opinions of blame on here - who thinks the OPs will insurance will agree to any of the costs as driver at fault? That is all that matters...
I can't agree with this at all - to my mind bot the OP and the A Class were both wrong.

If the OP was intending to drive straight on at the round about they were in the wrong lane (the movement left suggests that was the intention) as the inside lane would be for exiting the roundabout beyond straight on.

The A Class was in the wrong lane period but never turned right or turned into the OP's lane - they just appeared somewhat clueless. But the fact of the matter is that the A Class never turned into the OP, the OP was behind and turned into the A Class.
Watched again, it's quite clear the op drives into the merc muppet whilst trying to exit the round about straight on.
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      10-15-2019, 11:14 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AyrshireColin View Post
Where's my tin hat...….

I don't see the driver of the A Class changing their position on the road at all - just by following the line of the road surface and their wheels.

At about 13/14 seconds into the video you motion left (towards the A Class) - visible to the eye and more obvious following the roundabout as visible at the bottom right of your dash cam footage and then is not at the exact same time.

Either the roundabout isn't round of you didn't hold you line/veered left.

Just saying...…..
This was my first instinct having watched the video
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      10-15-2019, 11:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam.b View Post
yes, she was trying to blame me because she was turning right and INDICATING !!! Clearly not. Milton Keynes is the worst for roundabouts but this happen 2 min from my house.
I always look at other drivers on roundabouts as they are unpredictable most of the time.
I knew by her hand gesturing she was trying to blame you!

I know others have indicated a 50/50 fault here but i simply don't see it.

Both lanes have arrows pointing forward which means both lanes can go straight on the roundabout. Your lane has the option to go around the roundabout only. She is in wrong lane, not indicating & attempting to go around on the left lane. Case closed IMO.
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      10-15-2019, 11:54 AM   #27
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This turning right and using the left hand lane to do so is becoming more and more common these days, especially when the entry / exit road from the roundabout is a dual carriageway. I often see some driving right around in front of me / other cars, a complete 360.

I really become defensive in those situations all the time and assume that they are doing a 360 even if they are not. I either ensure I hang back or put my car in a position that commands the junction and road position so it's obvious they can't cut across my front.

Sorry for OP's damage by someone who clearly wasn't thinking, but I would have not put my car in that gap just in case.
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      10-15-2019, 12:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AyrshireColin View Post
Where's my tin hat....

I don't see the driver of the A Class changing their position on the road at all - just by following the line of the road surface and their wheels.

At about 13/14 seconds into the video you motion left (towards the A Class) - visible to the eye and more obvious following the roundabout as visible at the bottom right of your dash cam footage and then is not at the exact same time.

Either the roundabout isn't round of you didn't hold you line/veered left.

Just saying.....
If look at dirt on edge and where her front ended, half way on my lane, clearly she stated" i was turning right" on left lane, no more to explain. You can see how other cars fallowed left lane, left lane goes strait/left and right goes straight/right. it was B class quite neglected (dented, scratched).
She veered to my lane on runabout, like most drivers do, i was no more than foot from curb in the middle.
Road markings are not great but still you can see main arrow to go straight from both lanes.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/A6...3!4d-0.4563298

Last edited by adam.b; 10-15-2019 at 12:19 PM..
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      10-15-2019, 01:07 PM   #29
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It might have been possible for OP to avoid with great reactions, but merc driver cannot cross a two lane exit from the inside lane irrespective of signalling etc. Merc driver at fault - end of.
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      10-15-2019, 01:50 PM   #30
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Avoidable accident but the B Class is about to pass its 3rd exit without exiting, all while in the left lane. However the OP is in the inside lane for too long before starting to exit, given there is traffic inside them.

Mate of mine who is a shit driver did the same thing as the B Class, and was adjuged to be at fault.
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      10-15-2019, 02:10 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AyrshireColin View Post
I can't agree with this at all - to my mind both the OP and the A Class were both the wrong lane.

If the OP was intending to drive straight on at the round about they were in the wrong lane (the movement left suggests that was the intention) as the inside lane would be for exiting the roundabout beyond straight on. If the OP intended to stay on the roundabout they suffered some sort of twitch which made them drive into the A Class.

The A Class was in the wrong lane period but never turned right or turned into the OP's lane - they just appeared somewhat clueless. But the fact of the matter is that the A Class never turned into the OP, the OP was behind and turned into the A Class.
How other cars manage to pass us after collision if i was in wrong lane, clearly visible she is in my lane.
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      10-15-2019, 02:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Witney View Post
It might have been possible for OP to avoid with great reactions, but merc driver cannot cross a two lane exit from the inside lane irrespective of signalling etc. Merc driver at fault - end of.
Approach speed would suggest great reactions were to be expected, appears a confident driver.
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      10-15-2019, 02:42 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyalfa View Post
Sadly I agree. I'm no Saint here, but on round abouts and junctions I always drive defensively. Expect the moron to not see you and make some silly manoeuvre and you won't be disappointed... 50:50 this one I'm afraid.
Agreed.

Our man should have just hung back to see what developed. He also has a responsibility to avoid a collision which because he’s up her chuff doesn’t, he’s also bang in her blind spot and you just know she won’t do a shoulder check. You can tell by her body language, (the car) ie shit position on the roundabout and lack of ANY signal she’s doesn’t know what she’s doing or she’s waiting for her sat Nav to tell where to come off all of which could have contributed to where she was positioned.
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      10-15-2019, 02:43 PM   #34
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The speed prob looks slower in the video than in real life..... which makes it a harder accident to avoid.

I know my thinkware makes some of my footage seem much slower.
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      10-15-2019, 03:09 PM   #35
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Bad driving by her but a totally avoidable accident just by observing her road positioning and hesitation on entering the roundabout.
Not sure if the lane markings have changed since the Google maps image as that shows right only and video looks like straight on , I guess the right arrow has totally worn away.
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      10-15-2019, 03:33 PM   #36
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Well what a surprise, BMW forum full of drivers with opinions that think another driver at fault / they could do better without actually being present.

There are clearly a lot of people on here more perfect than me, when I am on roads I know I tend to be quite assertive and assume everyone else not displaying L or P plates, or foreign plates, knows what they are doing.

You will be fine OP. She was turning right from left hand lane. Case closed.
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      10-15-2019, 03:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodbyalfa View Post
Sadly I agree. I'm no Saint here, but on round abouts and junctions I always drive defensively. Expect the moron to not see you and make some silly manoeuvre and you won't be disappointed... 50:50 this one I'm afraid.
Sorry but I have to agree. The OP did drive into an area that the other car may have also been slowly heading for. The OP could have waited for the ditherer to decide where they were going.

Highway code 185 does mention this situation :
"watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all"

I personally take little notice of signals - I just drive defensively most of the time.
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      10-15-2019, 04:17 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isleaiw1 View Post
Well what a surprise, BMW forum full of drivers with opinions that think another driver at fault / they could do better without actually being present.

There are clearly a lot of people on here more perfect than me, when I am on roads I know I tend to be quite assertive and assume everyone else not displaying L or P plates, or foreign plates, knows what they are doing.

You will be fine OP. She was turning right from left hand lane. Case closed.
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      10-15-2019, 04:33 PM   #39
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Just showed the missus. She said both were in the wrong. Can't disagree. Not least because she's always right.
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      10-15-2019, 05:12 PM   #40
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Do not show that clip to the ins, unless you want a claim on your ins.
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      10-15-2019, 06:21 PM   #41
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Here's what any insurer or cop is going to say about that video, IMHO.

The Merc driver has not signaled and is making a right turn from the incorrect lane. Of that there is no doubt.

However, the OP has attempted to pass at a dodgy spot because there is the chance that the Merc driver would do that. It shows a lack of due diligence on the part of the OP in not ensuring it was safe to overtake. It's likely a 50:50 is the result and everybody goes home grumpy.

Now, in every day driving, I'm sure we have all passed a slowcoach at the exit to a roundabout. Bloody sure I have. But it's like overdriving your dipped beams, it's OK until it goes wrong, and then it's at least 50% your fault.

One more thing. If you ever visit Las Vegas I suggest you don't go to the Summerlin area where they have roundabouts. What is in that video is nothing compared to what I have observed here.
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      10-15-2019, 07:08 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam.b View Post
I was next to her, damage to her car is on front wing/driver door.

Sorry old mate but even my 6 year old would have seen that coming. You're clearly using lanes to suit your own brisk pace and that's fine until something like this happens.

50/50 would be fair.
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      10-15-2019, 07:31 PM   #43
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I think the B class driver was very much in the wrong, passing the third exit, but the OP’s pace and the tendency for insurance companies to go 50/50 on smaller bumps without an absolutely cast iron case, means that’s how this will end up.

I could very easily fall into the same trap - I like to ‘make progress’ and would have assumed that she wasn’t turning right.
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      10-15-2019, 07:56 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daftasabrush View Post
Why you didn't avoid her is beyond me. I could have crashes like that every day around here. I choose not to by not driving into people that are cutting me up.
As a motorcyclist, my motto has always been, "Always assume other drivers will do the stupidest thing possible at any given moment." I would rather let a shit driver hog both lanes in a roundabout than have contact with them. Scratching up a car is bad enough, but getting thrown off a bike is a lot worse, both for the bike and for your body, leathers, helmet, gloves, etc.

I got my motorcycle learner's permit when I was 15 and a half, and got my license on my sixteenth birthday. Didn't have a car license for more than two years after that.
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