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      08-30-2017, 07:01 PM   #1
akgambino
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Wondering if anyone can help me out with an annoying vibration sensation coming from the driver seat and floor.

The car is a 2013 335i xdrive m sport 6mt (no DHP and 22,000km).

I don't notice any real vibration in the steering wheel but at all speeds there is vibration in the bottom of the seat, headrest and in the floor noticed when my foot is on the throttle or dead pedal or just resting on the floor mat. It is not major like its shaking the car or anything but noticeable and annoying. It also seems more prominent on more recently paved roads that should actually feel smoother! There are no creaks or clunks or rattles from the suspension and the vibration is there whether on the throttle or not.

I have new Michelin pilot sport as3+ tires on the oem 19" 403 wheels and they were balanced when installed and I had them rebalanced thinking it may be the issue but the subtle vibration is still there. The vibration was also there with the oem Goodyear runflats. Car was also recently aligned to stock tolerances.

Is it potentially a bent rim that was missed during the wheel balancing twice? Or is this potentially what I see referred to as the base suspension "floaty" feeling or "bounciness" that seems to get a lot talk on this forum? Come to think of it the vibration may better be described as subtle bouncing over every single smooth imperfection in the road.

Any thoughts would be appreciated! I really hope that this is the float/bounce associated with the soft springs and poor dampers (specifically in the rear where my problem seems to resonate from) that is causing this sensation as I have a set of dinan springs and ride kit sitting in my garage awaiting install

Thought of another way to explain how it feels, almost feels as though the car is pulling a small trailer has a bit of a tugboat feel to it if that makes sense
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      09-02-2017, 03:18 PM   #2
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Nobody?
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      09-20-2017, 09:11 AM   #3
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Anybody able to chime in? Would love to know if what I am describing is the inherent floatiness / bounciness of the soft stock suspension specifically the rear. Thanks
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      10-11-2017, 10:27 AM   #4
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Update (since I have had so much help so far with this lol):
- Installed the Dinan springs and bumpstops along with 12mm front / 15mm rear spacers.
- Got a wheel alignment done to the specs provided by Dinan.
- Still noticed the faint/subtle vibration in the seat on smooth road surfaces at all speeds, if anything it is now slightly more pronounced.

I took the car to have the wheels balanced (for the third time now) at a place with the Hunter Road Force machine, they took the wheels off the car and noticed the two passenger wheels were slightly bent. They had the wheels repaired and all 4 tires re-installed and balanced, they told me everything was good to go. Drove the car on the highway and immediately noticed the vibration is still there! Potentially even more noticeable. Went back to the shop to see if they maybe moved tires from side to side or something, they said it all went back together as it was before it came in.

So what is going on here? The vibration is only noticeable on smooth roads and is present at all speeds, doesnt ever get worse or better. The only time i dont notice it is on older highways that have been patched or have rougher surfaces, any road that has been recently resurfaced i get this subtle vibration in my seat mostly in my thighs and somewhat in the headrest that is there just enough to be very annoying especially after all the money i have thrown at chasing it down! The tech from the tire shop went for a quick drive with me on a smooth highway and noticed it as well and said it is definitely a wheel speed issue but since the wheels are straight and balanced is not sure what else to do other than putting it on a hoist and driving the wheels while it is in the air to check for wobbles or vibrations, he also said this may be a waste of time since it is so subtle. He also suggested rear shocks might be the cause.

Other items to note:
- when the rear shocks were out of the car to install the bumpstops i pushed down on them and could compress the shocks with one finger and they would take forever to rebound. The car only has 24,000km so i dont think the shocks are blown... and i know these cars have incredibly soft shocks but this was really odd.
- when installing the rear spacers, the passenger side spacer fit perfectly over the hub but the driver side one needed some help via rubber mallet. Sits flush with the wheel on and tightened.

Seems like a harmonic vibration that may be related to just a bad tire or bad set of tires but how can that be further checked? They have only 12,000km on them and dont appear to be wearing oddly.
Possibly driveshaft out of balance?
Possibly blown shocks that are not rebounding fast enough to keep the spring from bouncing? Is the vibration actually just the feeling of the "smooth" new paved roads with small waves and undulations bouncing the spring without the rear dampers doing their job to keep up?
Bushings?
Guibo?

I am just at a loss here and it is driving me crazy, it is not a bad vibration but just there enough to constantly aggravate me. I just want the car to feel smooth on smooth roads, shouldnt be asking too much!

Please HELP!!!

Last edited by akgambino; 10-11-2017 at 10:45 AM..
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      10-11-2017, 11:36 AM   #5
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I feel for you I have the same vibration albeit on a 130,000 km car and the vibration starts at 160 km per hour speed

I tried a lot of things like checking the rims , wheel balance multiple times checking suspension components at multiple service centers and nothing yet.

I am looking for a loaner rim wheel setup to check on my car to rule them out all together before I go and change parts.

Yeah it's very annoying





Quote:
Originally Posted by akgambino View Post
Update (since I have had so much help so far with this lol):
- Installed the Dinan springs and bumpstops along with 12mm front / 15mm rear spacers.
- Got a wheel alignment done to the specs provided by Dinan.
- Still noticed the faint/subtle vibration in the seat on smooth road surfaces at all speeds, if anything it is now slightly more pronounced.

I took the car to have the wheels balanced (for the third time now) at a place with the Hunter Road Force machine, they took the wheels off the car and noticed the two passenger wheels were slightly bent. They had the wheels repaired and all 4 tires re-installed and balanced, they told me everything was good to go. Drove the car on the highway and immediately noticed the vibration is still there! Potentially even more noticeable. Went back to the shop to see if they maybe moved tires from side to side or something, they said it all went back together as it was before it came in.

So what is going on here? The vibration is only noticeable on smooth roads and is present at all speeds, doesnt ever get worse or better. The only time i dont notice it is on older highways that have been patched or have rougher surfaces, any road that has been recently resurfaced i get this subtle vibration in my seat mostly in my thighs and somewhat in the headrest that is there just enough to be very annoying especially after all the money i have thrown at chasing it down! The tech from the tire shop went for a quick drive with me on a smooth highway and noticed it as well and said it is definitely a wheel speed issue but since the wheels are straight and balanced is not sure what else to do other than putting it on a hoist and driving the wheels while it is in the air to check for wobbles or vibrations, he also said this may be a waste of time since it is so subtle. He also suggested rear shocks might be the cause.

Other items to note:
- when the rear shocks were out of the car to install the bumpstops i pushed down on them and could compress the shocks with one finger and they would take forever to rebound. The car only has 24,000km so i dont think the shocks are blown... and i know these cars have incredibly soft shocks but this was really odd.
- when installing the rear spacers, the passenger side spacer fit perfectly over the hub but the driver side one needed some help via rubber mallet. Sits flush with the wheel on and tightened.

Seems like a harmonic vibration that may be related to just a bad tire or bad set of tires but how can that be further checked? They have only 12,000km on them and dont appear to be wearing oddly.
Possibly driveshaft out of balance?
Possibly blown shocks that are not rebounding fast enough to keep the spring from bouncing? Is the vibration actually just the feeling of the "smooth" new paved roads with small waves and undulations bouncing the spring without the rear dampers doing their job to keep up?
Bushings?
Guibo?

I am just at a loss here and it is driving me crazy, it is not a bad vibration but just there enough to constantly aggravate me. I just want the car to feel smooth on smooth roads, shouldnt be asking too much!

Please HELP!!!
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      10-15-2017, 10:32 AM   #6
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Another update, went for a second opinion on the road force wheel balancing at another shop. They were able to verify the wheels all had only 6lbs of road force and the balance was bang on so this 100% removes the wheels and tires from being the issue.

This shop put the car on the lift with the wheels turning in gear at idle to inspect the driveshaft and axles. Two experienced techs looked closely for anything out of sorts and both noticed (and showed me) the rear passenger wheel had a slight wobble to it. Since it's not the runout of the wheel it has been narrowed down to a bent/damaged wheel hub (axle flange). Sounds right to me, the wheel shows lateral runout that will cause wobble (could visually see about 1/8" lateral wobble while on lift) that manifests itself in vibration through the floor and seats in the car.

I'm thinking that this damaged wheel hub would have happened when the rim was bent and the car likely had a run in with a curb on the passenger side by PO. If a car hits a curb hard enough to bend a rim seems like the wheel hub would take a massive impact as well. The wheel spacers and stiffer springs amplify the wobble/vibration.

Anyways, a new wheel hub (not replacing the bearing as it doesn't make any noise at all) has been ordered and will be here early this week. I will update again after install.
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      10-22-2017, 11:38 AM   #7
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Another update.
Had the car in to the shop to replace the rear passenger axle flange/wheel hub that indicated excessive runout. While taking the old flange off the axle spline they damaged the wheel bearing so that was replaced as well. The new hub has almost 0 runout and was expecting this to solve the problem..... no, it did not.

So I spent a few hours yesterday with a dial indicator measuring runout in both directions on all 4 wheel hubs and everything is less than 0.005" so all is in tolerance. I contemplated removing the wheel spacers at this time to see if that made a difference but decided to just remove any anti seize I put on when I first installed them and meticulously clean the wheel mating surface and the hubs and carefully install them.

Took the car out for a long 100km highway drive and the vibration is still there and still most noticeable on smooth/newer surfaced roads and most noticeable in the floor/seat but also slight vibration in the steering wheel (the wheel does not visibly shake when not holding it but the feeling is subtly there while holding it). If I put my hand on the passenger head rest while driving I can feel the resonance/vibration. With my elbow on the centre console or on the door arm rest I feel it. I feel it in my thighs on the seat more than in my lower back. With my foot flat on the floor mat I feel every change in the asphalt surface. Minimal vibration under braking.

I'm at a complete loss here as to what to do next. I have read every article out there and am pulled in many different directions, do I go back and have another road force balance done (the shop that did the wheel hub checked that wheel to verify the other shops work and found 6lbs of road force and 1/4oz of balance which they said was good and likely just a difference of balancing machine shop to shop, I didn't want to pay them to check all the wheels as I am already into this for over $1000 with the straightening of 2 wheels, balancing, and the wheel hub).

So far this is what has been done:
- alignment to the dinan specs that came with the springs
- road force balance
- wheel hub found to have excessive runout, replaced
- all other wheel hubs checked with dial indicator and are in spec
- no signs of odd wear on the tires
- tire pressures as per the door placard 35f/38r

The feeling is as though the pavement is wavy and the car is oscillating along with the waves in the pavement on smooth roads, as though the tires and suspension are not soaking any of this up.
It's really strange sometimes I can go a few kilometres and think oh this isn't so bad and think anything I am feeling is normal road vibration. I do understand low profile stuff sidewall tires and stiffer springs, I also know this sensation was there before the dinan springs and with the oem Goodyear run flats but was perhaps less noticeable.
I am hoping for some guidance on what else to check. I have not had great experiences in the last with my local dealership so don't want to take it there I also don't want to throw more money at an Indy shop who has likely never worked on a car like this with this issue. Is there a bearing or bushing front or rear I should look at and what am I looking for? Driveshaft guibo??

Please if anyone has any suggestions, I'm getting pretty desperate here as the car is impossible to enjoy right now as I can't stop fixating on this subtle vibration.
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      10-22-2017, 07:19 PM   #8
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I'm just spitballing, but have you had the transmission and other drivetrain mounts?

That's a crazy problem. I had a similar one which was fixed when I straightened the two rear wheels which were exceptionally bent from the horrible run-flats. Switching my tires also did smooth it out a bit.
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      10-22-2017, 08:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB View Post
I'm just spitballing, but have you had the transmission and other drivetrain mounts?

That's a crazy problem. I had a similar one which was fixed when I straightened the two rear wheels which were exceptionally bent from the horrible run-flats. Switching my tires also did smooth it out a bit.
Thanks for the reply, I have not looked at the transmission mounts but have looked over the diff and found no issues.
To me the issue feels more and more like an out of round tire that is felt at all speeds but surely that would have been noticed and accounted for with the road force balance.
Who knows could be tranny diff or driveshaft related and always there since I bought the car just is now more noticeable with the stiffer springs and spacers
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      10-30-2017, 11:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akgambino View Post
Thanks for the reply, I have not looked at the transmission mounts but have looked over the diff and found no issues.
To me the issue feels more and more like an out of round tire that is felt at all speeds but surely that would have been noticed and accounted for with the road force balance.
Who knows could be tranny diff or driveshaft related and always there since I bought the car just is now more noticeable with the stiffer springs and spacers
have kinda same issue. but i start feel a slight vibration from 56mph and up to a 100mph. after a hundred its getting almost unnoticeable. have new shocks new springs new top hats new wheels and new tires lol. no clue from where to start a search of solution. guessing it could be an axle, cause on my previous e90 335 was same vibration on the body under my ass and it was bounced rear right axle, stucked and fucked up , dealer replaced by warranty and problem was solved. Hope my great advisor will help me up with this problem on my bmw dealership
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      10-31-2017, 09:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnishka View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by akgambino View Post
Thanks for the reply, I have not looked at the transmission mounts but have looked over the diff and found no issues.
To me the issue feels more and more like an out of round tire that is felt at all speeds but surely that would have been noticed and accounted for with the road force balance.
Who knows could be tranny diff or driveshaft related and always there since I bought the car just is now more noticeable with the stiffer springs and spacers
have kinda same issue. but i start feel a slight vibration from 56mph and up to a 100mph. after a hundred its getting almost unnoticeable. have new shocks new springs new top hats new wheels and new tires lol. no clue from where to start a search of solution. guessing it could be an axle, cause on my previous e90 335 was same vibration on the body under my ass and it was bounced rear right axle, stucked and fucked up , dealer replaced by warranty and problem was solved. Hope my great advisor will help me up with this problem on my bmw dealership
I actually was able to inspect the rear axles while it was on a lift and the wheels turning / in gear. They didn't look to have any wobble or deflection but improper balance of an axle shaft might not be visually detectable anyways...

I have been describing my issue more as a vibration but I think that's inaccurate, it is actually more of a subtle wallow / bounce from the rear. I have narrowed down my problem to the rear shocks which were extremely easy to compress when off the car and would not rebound. The vibrating /wallow/bouncing/oscillating is likely the car rear suspension just bouncing along on the stiff rear springs with no shock rebound.

I ordered a pair of koni yellow rear shocks they should be here this week really hope it finally solves this mystery. The rear suspension on these cars sucks.
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      10-31-2017, 10:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akgambino View Post
I actually was able to inspect the rear axles while it was on a lift and the wheels turning / in gear. They didn't look to have any wobble or deflection but improper balance of an axle shaft might not be visually detectable anyways...

I have been describing my issue more as a vibration but I think that's inaccurate, it is actually more of a subtle wallow / bounce from the rear. I have narrowed down my problem to the rear shocks which were extremely easy to compress when off the car and would not rebound. The vibrating /wallow/bouncing/oscillating is likely the car rear suspension just bouncing along on the stiff rear springs with no shock rebound.

I ordered a pair of koni yellow rear shocks they should be here this week really hope it finally solves this mystery. The rear suspension on these cars sucks.
ill start i guess from replacing my tires by warranty. cause my advisor said that a road force amount was pretty high.probably manufacture defect so ill get a results from tire machine and will send that info to tire rack and let them contact a michelin about warranty replacement. otherwise 0 issue with a ride. ive just recently went with B6 + dinan springs. its the best what ive done with my car so far. car was before on the road like an old garbage. i have a lil over than 30k miles on the car but after we removed the struts my advisor as well as me were shoked cause all 4 were completely weak and dead. thats was the reason for woobly and harsch ride. i didnt want to drive my car but now its just day and night. very stable firm and comfortable ride. 0 issue 0 complaints at all! car drives like a champ! all this setup goes with stock square 400ms wrapped in 245/40 michelin pilot sport a/s 3+
Check also rear subframe bushings and all the support brackets on the transfer case and driveshaft. all this shit is connected between each other so if one thing is weak or loose it means problem could be on the other end!
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      04-15-2018, 09:35 PM   #13
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335ix has clunking noise right under my feet on driver side. sound like a loose shock or similar. this car is new to me. anyone???
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      04-15-2018, 09:38 PM   #14
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BTW, on my way to dealer for a check.....took the car off my sons hands when he just moved to Philly. 52K miles and stick with 4 driving options....eco, comfort, sport and sport plus......love the car hating the clunking noise!!
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      03-18-2019, 02:32 PM   #15
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i love how these forums just die. i wish nothing but bad things for people that do not finish a thread they started.
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      03-18-2019, 02:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
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i love how these forums just die. i wish nothing but bad things for people that do not finish a thread they started.
Proper road force balancing identified two bent wheels which were then straightened and the tires properly road force balanced... issue gone.
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      07-12-2020, 06:14 PM   #17
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I had the same vibration, especially on soft new roads, between speeds 75-100miles/h and disappears beyond the 100mph, and mostly seen on the central mirror (I couldn't see details of the behind cars due to vibration). My car has108k miles, xdrive 2013 328ix. I lived with it, until I took out all the wheels and cleaned some rust (also found one missing screw out of the five at the passenger's rear.) I replaced the missing screw, and I drove. The car is like brand new. No vibration at all. Hope it will last.
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      10-27-2020, 08:30 AM   #18
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Hey guys, I have been feeling some sort of vibration off lately. I am at 83870 kms (Km because its Canada). I don't feel it all the time. Its like something is rolling under my feet its very mild and my wife in the passenger seat felt it too. Its very hard to describe this in words. The wheels are run flats and generally speaking new. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I appreciate akgambino for starting this thread, I feel for you. I will try and see if I can find an explanation and keep everyone here posted. Meanwhile like I said earlier any suggestions are much appreciated.

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      10-27-2020, 10:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayhi2neil View Post
Hey guys, I have been feeling some sort of vibration off lately. I am at 83870 kms (Km because its Canada). I don't feel it all the time. Its like something is rolling under my feet its very mild and my wife in the passenger seat felt it too. Its very hard to describe this in words. The wheels are run flats and generally speaking new. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I appreciate akgambino for starting this thread, I feel for you. I will try and see if I can find an explanation and keep everyone here posted. Meanwhile like I said earlier any suggestions are much appreciated.

Regards
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Did you guys ever check the motor mounts? Not sure if that would give a vibration, just a thought.
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      10-31-2020, 09:26 AM   #20
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The vibration seems to have increased a little bit after I switched to winter tires. I will definitely consider looking at the Mount. I hope thats not the issue, because that'll be an expensive fix.

Will keep you guys posted.
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      10-31-2020, 11:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayhi2neil View Post
The vibration seems to have increased a little bit after I switched to winter tires. I will definitely consider looking at the Mount. I hope thats not the issue, because that'll be an expensive fix.

Will keep you guys posted.
Get your rims and tire-wear checked.
What may have happened is your set of tires wear-adjusted to the bent rims and when you threw the winters on you threw it off.
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      11-02-2020, 09:03 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 340iGUY View Post
Get your rims and tire-wear checked.
What may have happened is your set of tires wear-adjusted to the bent rims and when you threw the winters on you threw it off.
Thanks man, I had the same thought. Off lately I am noticing more vibration around 80-90 kmph and disappears or minimizes after 90. I will get the tires and rims inspected for bends and such.

I truly appreciate yout suggestion. If it turns out not to be tires I am going to start looking at engine mounts, which I hope is not the problem as those could get expensive.
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