[jjhebigscreen]

Hi,
I could barely tell a difference after mppsk install. I bit the bullet and installed bm3 stage1. Wow! Absolutely a huge difference. The car has way more power and you don't need to go up in the rev range to get the power. The car is far more enjoyable. It is like a different car.

[IMS-340C]

Yeah MPPSK has only 35 HP over stock.

[Skyhigh]

This said, I doubt bm3 Stage 1 (or any Stage 1 for that matter) has significantly more...!?

[eluded]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

This said, I doubt bm3 Stage 1 (or any Stage 1 for that matter) has significantly more...!?

15 vs 17 psi.

It's noticeable especially with the boost characteristics of stage 1 vs oem.

[Skyhigh]

But also different ignition timing.
All in all, it is not boost which drives the vehicle but power envelope. My understanding is that the various Stage 1 deliver anything betwen 350 to 400 PS. Whilst there are differences (MPPSK being one of the more conservative Stage 1s), what others have reported so far is rather insignificant difference to the butt-dyno...
May be wrong though.

[Sgm123]

Looking at the B58’s log thread first page stage 1 is 2.5psi more most and 3.5degrees more timing on stage 1 93 compared to mppsk. Backed up with times on the thread for 0-100/100-200 times etc pretty big improvements on stage 1.

[vcx]

I use MG Flasher (stage 1, ron 93) and had to flash the car back to stock-MPPSK specs last week, before visiting the dealer for maintenance.

I agree, there is a huge difference between stage one and MPPSK !

With stage 1, the car is so much more alive, alert, responsive, and the difference in power (580 NM vs 450) is very noticeable.

I bet it's the same with bm3

[Skyhigh]

Just one correction - since you compare with MPPSK - it is 500NM, not 450....

[vcx]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Just one correction - since you compare with MPPSK - it is 500NM, not 450....

Actually it's limited to 450 NM with the manual gearbox.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by jjhebigscreen

Hi,
I could barely tell a difference after mppsk install. I bit the bullet and installed bm3 stage1. Wow! Absolutely a huge difference. The car has way more power and you don't need to go up in the rev range to get the power. The car is far more enjoyable. It is like a different car.

Congrats

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by vcx

Actually it's limited to 450 NM with the manual gearbox.

480 NM for manual gearbox, according to the official spec.....

[vcx]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

480 NM for manual gearbox, according to the official spec.....

450NM on my 2018 non OPF xdrive car.

Could the difference come from market the car is aimed to ?

[IMS-340C]

More important is at what RPM is that torque, MPPSK has 500 nm but only up to 5000 RPM and then fall like a rock.

WOT runs are between 5500 to 6800 RPM that's where torque is needed.

[Skyhigh]

No MPPSK exists for OPF cars... so that's that.

And no - the spec is not region specific:


What makes you think yours is different?

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by IMS-340MP

WOT runs are between 5500 to 6800 RPM that's where torque is needed.

What matters at high RPM is power, not torque. Torque is important at low RPMs. The lower for the max torque, the better. (Ref diesel fanboys).
Then RPMs take over and what you are left with is power.... and power gets work done, not torque

[IMS-340C]

You are right in general but people always get confused by Torque and HP.

HP is nothing without torque and to calculate HP you have to calculate it through torque using the equation below.

HP = (Torque nm X RPM ) / 7120 , so yes the the higher the RPM the higher the HP but also the the higher the torque the more higher the HP.

For example:

300 nm of torque at 6800 RPM / 7120 = 286 HP

400 nm of torque at 6800 RPM / 7120 = 382 HP

So the higher the torque the higher the power (HP) at any RPM.

HP is just a multiplication of Torque using RPM, so if you start with low torque you will get low power and if you start with higher torque you will get higher power.

And by the way your PM is full you need to empty old messages

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

What matters at high RPM is power, not torque. Torque is important at low RPMs. The lower for the max torque, the better. (Ref diesel fanboys).
Then RPMs take over and what you are left with is power.... and power gets work done, not torque

[Skyhigh]

Exactly my point.
And keeping in mind that it is power which gets work done, that's what matters most at the end of the day, for a given RPM. Torque is just one of its components.

[IMS-340C]

No Torque is not one of the components, Torque is the main component you just work torque harder to get more power see my edit above.

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Exactly my point.
And keeping in mind that it is power which gets work done, that's what matters most at the end of the day, for a given RPM. Torque is just one of its components.

[Skyhigh]

It is one out of 2 variables in the power equation - torque and RPM!
Remember - torque without rpm is just material stress! And the reason a diesel car is not exactly racer's first preference, despite the massive torque.

[IMS-340C]

Agreed but the main and starting point is Torque, again the harder you work that torque the more power you get from it.

RPM is just a way to multiply that torque.

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

It is one out of 2 variables in the power equation - torque and RPM!
Remember - torque without rpm is just material stress! And the reason a diesel car is not exactly racer's first preference, despite the massive torque.

[vcx]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

No MPPSK exists for OPF cars... so that's that.

And no - the spec is not region specific:

What makes you think yours is different?

Ok, thank, I thought it was 450nm. Anyway, on the torque gauge, it never goes higher than 450. Go figure out..

Concerning the debate torque vs HP, a question: if HP depends on torque value (which is correct), how can the 480 NM and 500 NM be rated the same HP ?

I don't get it..

[Skyhigh]

Originally Posted by vcx

Ok, thank, I thought it was 450nm. Anyway, on the torque gauge, it never goes higher than 450. Go figure out..

That is really weird! Does you power gauge go up to 360PS? Could it be that your MPPSK software is not (correctly) installed!? Might want to find somebody else with MPPSK and manual gearbox and ask what they see...

Concerning the debate torque vs HP, a question: if HP depends on torque value (which is correct), how can the 480 NM and 500 NM be rated the same HP ?

I don't get it..

Easily. This is where IMS-340MP's posts above can be slightly misleading.

- Keep in mind that power is made of Torque and RPM.
- Maximum power is not necessarilly (rarely actually) achieved when torque is at its max. Here a random B58 dyno log:



You will notice that the max power is achieved when torque starts falling already, thanks to the increasing RPM!

So in your case, max power is simply achieved at higher RPMs in comparison to B58 with automatic gearbox. You also have slightly less power along the way, your power curve will run minimally below the curve of one with automatic gearbox and achieve the same max power, but slightly later.
Something like this:


Does that make sense now?

What I tried to say earlier is that whilst max torque metters, it is much more important WHEN the max torque is achieved (the earlier, the better) and how long it is maintained.
If you have 450NM and are racing against someone with the exact same vehicle and max power but 400NM max torque, however he achieves his 400NM at 1200 RPM and you are still at 300NM at 1200RPM, you WILL see his tail lights (initially at least) and can put your higher max torque in the bin whilst waiting for your higher torque to catch up
This is the typical race against diesel and electrical cars They have massive torque very early, however loose at higher RPMs/speed.