[zinner]

Thanks for the new OTS Map. I had been waiting for this, I had a wish deep down in my heart of hearts that it would happen.

[Daleb]

Won't dwell too much on VD as its already been covered but I think we all know the ots stage 2+ maps are going to make more power everywhere in the rpm range over the regular stage 2 ots.

You don't shave over 1 second off your 100-200kph with a few whp

Originally Posted by harkes

This surprises me as my car does 100 to 200 in 7.4sec and judging by your log it looks way cleaner then mine. I am on 98RON with 100% meth but my timing is not as good as yours.

Yeah the logs have been very good, I think its time to change my plugs and then it should be near on perfect.

On the regular stage 2 e30 map my car ran 9.11s 100-200 then switched to the e30+map and dropped to 7.91s (same conditions). My times will 100% drop too, the e30+ map was getting quicker the more I ran it but unfortunately ran out of time that day. We will see a 7.7/7.8 especially as it heads into winter.

FYI last winter on the regular racegas map my car ran 8.77s vs 9.11s in warmer conditions....gives an idea of what can be gained.

The racegas+ map interests me the most as it looks to run 0.5psi more than the e30+ map. It wont surprise me if we see a 7.6/7.7s 100-200

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Virtual Dyno is a very good (And fairly accurate) tool. It’s pretty ignorant to be so dismissive.

It is, and i am a advocate for using VD as a tool as in the VD thread, but it needs to be used under specific circumstances. The main concern is different cars under different conditions. At the same time, people's times at the drag strip or using dragy would also be influenced by atmospheric conditions. So no matter the method it is difficult to compare different cars remotely. There's nothing inherently wrong with VD though.

Also, were the M2 parameters adjusted for drag coef and frontal area?

[AmuroRay]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...mparison-test/

Scroll to the bottom, they provide a full breakdown of gear ratios, weight, and frontal area

Also for everyone else: You can also utilize truck stops on the highway to weigh your car. I've done it a few times, I may do it this weekend for giggles.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

It is, and i am a advocate for using VD as a tool as in the VD thread, but it needs to be used under specific circumstances. The main concern is different cars under different conditions. At the same time, people's times at the drag strip or using dragy would also be influenced by atmospheric conditions. So no matter the method it is difficult to compare different cars remotely. There's nothing inherently wrong with VD though.

Also, were the M2 parameters adjusted for drag coef and frontal area?

Totally agree with you unless you ran each car side by side... but as you mentioned your car is going to do what it's going to do at that particular time... As I mentioned before we could adjust for DA ... looking at JerryBMW logs and adjusting according to his DA for a turbo set-up it would come out to basically 100lbs more for his car weight which would equal to +10whp on his VD run at 1125'elevation and his weather conditions that day... which fall under +2.5% (10whp) accuracy tolerance which I feel is acceptable as a tolerance for no corrections... Unless your driving straight down a mountain don't think a flat road is a major factor either... if it looks flat... it's flat enough... for the most part as people keep posting their logs we can see the gains or lack of on their particular car virtually over the internet for each mod if they use the same conditions for the most part which is pretty cool....

I think I did... Cd @ .35 and frontal area @ 22.38

[FastF30]

P.s. EstorilMSport has time slips that verify his dynorun is in the ballpark... so yes on a stock HPFP and stock Turbo our cars are capable of over 400whp in the right conditions...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FastF30

P.s. EstorilMSport has time slips that verify his dynorun is in the ballpark... so yes on a stock HPFP and stock Turbo our cars are capable of over 400whp in the right conditions...

No one is discrediting that, there are many M2’s doing the same. But the idea that those cars are close to the Stg 2+ map bc you plugged in some numbers into a computer program is completely wrong.

It’s like you’re not appreciating the fact that over here in the real world Daleb and I have been using BM3 for several years thru many OTS revisions and several that we actually helped with.

These maps are much quicker than 400-410whp N55’s. And, I don’t care what VD is saying, show me an N55 on a stock HPFP that is doing 7.6-7.9s 100-200.

Right now, the only people I’m listening to are those with real numbers like Daleb and the dyno I did on a beta version of the OTS that was close to 430whp on a Dynojet. The OTS is stronger than the beta, so I’ll redo my dyno soon.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

No one is discrediting that, there are many M2’s doing the same. But the idea that those cars are close to the Stg 2+ map bc you plugged in some numbers into a computer program is completely wrong.

It’s like you’re not appreciating the fact that over here in the real world Daleb and I have been using BM3 for several years thru many OTS revisions and several that we actually helped with.

These maps are much quicker than 400-410whp N55’s. And, I don’t care what VD is saying, show me an N55 on a stock HPFP that is doing 7.6-7.9s 100-200.

Right now, the only people I’m listening to are those with real numbers like Daleb and the dyno I did on a beta version of the OTS that was close to 430whp on a Dynojet. The OTS is stronger than the beta, so I’ll redo my dyno soon.

7.6-7.9 is for that weight of car... 400whp in my car and 400whp in your car ... your car is going to be faster... it's all based on the math like it or not...we've got dynos and time slips and logs... I'll look for a 100km-200km calculator to see what the numbers say...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FastF30

7.6-7.9 is for that weight of car... 400whp in my car and 400whp in your car ... your car is going to be faster... it's all based on the math like it or not...we've got dynos and time slips and logs... I'll look for a 100km-200km calculator to see what the numbers say...

OMG, quit playing with calculators: https://dragymotorsports.com/

You sound like engineers that “used” to work for me for a reason. They stay in their heads & computer programs and over analyze stuff too much, when all that matters is the real world. I’d tell them to get it out of the computer, build a prototype, test it, and figure out which of your assumptions are wrong bc one or more of them always are!

[thejeremyman9]

I have to ask the question, why do the HP numbers and 100-200km times even really matter here? It's not like people are going to use that information to make a decision as to whether or not they are going to purchase BM3 or run this tune (at least they shouldn't). Everyone reading this thread is just going to get lost in a sea of numbers for HP and acceleration times.

The more important thing is the datalogs, how a variety of different cars are responding to the tune under different conditions, etc. That's really what matters to make an informed decisions as to whether or not you want to run this tune on your car and how it looks when its applied to a greater sample size than the original testers. We need a consolidated post of car information and the log on that particular car running this map so we can look at the data. A prior log on the stage 2 map would also provide context for exactly what this map is doing as compared to the stage 2.

There's no question this map will make more power than the stage 2 map (of course assuming you have supporting mods and fuel to support timing, etc), so all we need now is to see the logs as more users begin running the tune.

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I have to ask the question, why do the HP numbers and 100-200km times even really matter here? It's not like people are going to use that information to make a decision as to whether or not they are going to purchase BM3 or run this tune (at least they shouldn't). Everyone reading this thread is just going to get lost in a sea of numbers for HP and acceleration times.

The more important thing is the datalogs, how a variety of different cars are responding to the tune under different conditions, etc. That's really what matters to make an informed decisions as to whether or not you want to run this tune on your car and how it looks when its applied to a greater sample size than the original testers. We need a consolidated post of car information and the log on that particular car running this map so we can look at the data. A prior log on the stage 2 map would also provide context for exactly what this map is doing as compared to the stage 2.

There's no question this map will make more power than the stage 2 map (of course assuming you have supporting mods and fuel to support timing, etc), so all we need now is to see the logs as more users begin running the tune.

Agreed, real data, not outputs from calculators. Then people can decide if they want to run the tune for power, reliability, or both, and which fuel to focus on.

I have all the logs you mentioned, just not the time to post them at the moment. Hopefully this weekend.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You sound like engineers that “used” to work for me for a reason. They stay in their heads & computer programs and over analyze stuff too much, when all that matters is the real world. I’d tell them to get it out of the computer, build a prototype, test it, and figure out which of your assumptions are wrong bc one or more of them always are!

Lol...lol...lol... I am an Engineer... but again... we have supporting data... I suggest running another log on a cold, low humid day... let us know the elevation just in case your in the Himalayas when you do it...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FastF30

Lol...lol...lol... I am an Engineer... but again... we have supporting data... I suggest running another log on a cold, low humid day... let us know the elevation just in case your in the Himalayas when you do it...

That will happen. I suggest you compile some real world data of your own to contribute.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

That will happen. I suggest you compile some real world data of your own to contribute.

For now I have the best log I ever had and it's power line graphs the same as ctt300, EstorilMSport and even Jeremys with a little correction...I've got really good fuel and it's a great tune and had awesome weather... it is an E20 tune ... just a real good E20 tune maxed for a stock EWG...

Need you guys to do some clean 3rd or 4th gear pulls depending on your transmission... But in my opinion Daleb maybe at best will get another 10whp on that tune... Your car is modified and really can't use it against stock cars...

ctt300 if he upgrades his pump I expect to see another 20whp+ on that 2+E30map.... I really really hope it's more.... but as it stands I've got JerryBMW video racing the same mustang before and after pump upgrade... timeslips...logs ... etc...etc...etc...going from a MHD OTS E20 (that's what I'm running) to a custom MHD E85 map.... so I'm looking forward to Black Friday....

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FastF30

For now I have the best log I ever had and it's power line graphs the same as ctt300, EstorilMSport and even Jeremys with a little correction...I've got really good fuel and it's a great tune and had awesome weather... it is an E20 tune ... just a real good E20 tune maxed for a stock EWG...

Need you guys to do some clean 3rd or 4th gear pulls depending on your transmission... But in my opinion Daleb maybe at best will get another 10whp on that tune... Your car is modified and really can't use it against stock cars...

ctt300 if he upgrades his pump I expect to see another 20whp+ on that 2+E30map.... I really really hope it's more.... but as it stands I've got JerryBMW video racing the same mustang before and after pump upgrade... timeslips ... etc...etc...etc... so I'm looking forward to Black Friday....

You’re still missing the point. The only way you’re going to get a real answer for YOUR car is to dyno or time it now, and do they same after the upgrades. All these virtual & internet comparisons and blah, blah, blah in between is worthless.

When I re-dyno my car I’ll get curves for Stg 2+ E30, Stg 2 E30, Stg 2 93, and stock, with logs at the same time. That’s the kind of real world data we’re talking about.

In other news, I fully support the endeavor towards making more power, that is solid year round and on track.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You’re still missing the point. The only way you’re going to get a real answer for YOUR car is to dyno or time it now, and do they same after the upgrades. All these virtual & internet comparisons and blah, blah, blah in between is worthless.

When I re-dyno my car I’ll get curves for Stg 2+ E30, Stg 2 E30, Stg 2 93, and stock, with logs at the same time. That’s the kind of real world data we’re talking about.

In other news, I fully support the endeavor towards making more power, that is solid year round and on track.

I've got my baseline for my car...it's in the 400's... I'm good.... we'll see after the pump hopefully in the same conditions...I'll be pissed if it ain't better...

Yes please get that data... it would be priceless...

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by ZM2

You’re still missing the point. The only way you’re going to get a real answer for YOUR car is to dyno or time it now, and do they same after the upgrades. All these virtual & internet comparisons and blah, blah, blah in between is worthless.

When I re-dyno my car I’ll get curves for Stg 2+ E30, Stg 2 E30, Stg 2 93, and stock, with logs at the same time. That’s the kind of real world data we’re talking about.

In other news, I fully support the endeavor towards making more power, that is solid year round and on track.

P.s. I don't think you posted a clean 3rd gear log yet... if you could do one right before you dyno would be incredible data to get...

[ZM2]

Originally Posted by FastF30

P.s. I don't think you posted a clean 3rd gear log yet... if you could do one right before you dyno would be incredible data to get...

I've put some out there. Track them down, and post some of your own data to share.

[Daleb]

Originally Posted by FastF30

7.6-7.9 is for that weight of car... 400whp in my car and 400whp in your car ... your car is going to be faster... it's all based on the math like it or not...we've got dynos and time slips and logs... I'll look for a 100km-200km calculator to see what the numbers say...

You do like your calculators don’t you 😂. Anyone who is familiar with 60-130mph or 100-200kph times know no calculator can replicate them.

I’m not sure your point regarding 400whp vs 400whp. We’ve seen m2’s and other n55s hit 400whp on the 93 ots so it’s safe to say the regular racegas or e30 map will do 400whp...we agree on this.

My car has went from 9.1 to 7.9 100-200 going from the 400whp stage 2 ots e30 map to the stage 2+ e30 map. No one can seriously think that this map still makes 400whp......

I also agree a heavier 3 series won’t get below 8s on the stage 2+ maps due to weight.

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I have to ask the question, why do the HP numbers and 100-200km times even really matter here? It's not like people are going to use that information to make a decision as to whether or not they are going to purchase BM3 or run this tune (at least they shouldn't). Everyone reading this thread is just going to get lost in a sea of numbers for HP and acceleration times.

The more important thing is the datalogs, how a variety of different cars are responding to the tune under different conditions, etc. That's really what matters to make an informed decisions as to whether or not you want to run this tune on your car and how it looks when its applied to a greater sample size than the original testers. We need a consolidated post of car information and the log on that particular car running this map so we can look at the data. A prior log on the stage 2 map would also provide context for exactly what this map is doing as compared to the stage 2.

There's no question this map will make more power than the stage 2 map (of course assuming you have supporting mods and fuel to support timing, etc), so all we need now is to see the logs as more users begin running the tune.

It’s definitely a valid point but on the road performance like 100-200kph puts in to practice what a certain whp/clean log etc does. Personally for me on road performance is the most important as it’s where we use our cars, we don’t drive on dyno’s or live in logs.

In Europe 100-200kph is a big selling point. Dyno’s vary a lot over here so tuner A might say I make 450whp and do 8.5s 100-200. Tuner B then says I make 430whp but do 100-200 in 7.9s....obviously we would want to go with tuner B

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f6d...729b5dcecefd97

That’s a stage 2 racegas log from my car. Maybe you can compare that to my racegas+ log further up

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by ZM2

When I re-dyno my car I’ll get curves for Stg 2+ E30, Stg 2 E30, Stg 2 93, and stock, with logs at the same time. That’s the kind of real world data we’re talking about.

Yes please, this.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by Daleb

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f6d...729b5dcecefd97

That’s a stage 2 racegas log from my car. Maybe you can compare that to my racegas+ log further up

For some reason this log has major spikes around 4000-4300rpms... I looked at the excell sheet and some really weird things going on around there... I took out the bad data just to see and still acting weird...

[Daleb]

Originally Posted by FastF30

For some reason this log has major spikes around 4000-4300rpms... I looked at the excell sheet and some really weird things going on around there... I took out the bad data just to see and still acting weird...

Looks like the car broke traction and I lifted a little. Can’t remember it was a while ago now.