[hollandog]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

It was called Snow Tires. They even had studs before the state governments banned them. Never drove a 4X4 till I got drafted. Today only 4X4's I own are trucks. The pickup has off road tires & is the snow day vehicle the few days of the year we actually get snow.

Yes summer tires will kill you in the snow if you start facing down hill. Otherwise the are perfectly safe because you can't move.

In a mild climate location the only advantage a 4X4 has is off the line traction so if are planning on drag racing the car get a X version.

Ask anyone in NYC, 90% will tell you who needs snow tire when you have AWD.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by BimmerMat135

You know you need x-drive when you find your car like this many time during winter

Nah... "need", I don't think so, "want", sure why not, it's a good choice.



And I visit both Montreal and Tremblant quite frequently.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Nah... "need", I don't think so, "want", sure why not, it's a good choice.



And I visit both Montreal and Tremblant quite frequently.

If I would have 2 garage spot instead of 1 probably rwd would do the job. But parking on the street between 2 cars when you can't maintain momentum well x-drive is a must.

[Strudle]

Zentan-I think the overall jist here is the choice is mostly geographic. If you live in the Northeast or in Minnesota, go with Xdrive. Despite the argument that RWD can be driven in the snow, I have yet to see any RWD cars on the roads in Upstate NY in wintertime. And I've seen plenty of FWD cars stuck on hills, sliding backwards.

[mr_kay]

Originally Posted by hollandog

Why didn't you just order to your spec? wait time is 6-8weeks.

Didn't want to buy new. The 340 was right around the corner so I would've been kicking myself if I bought a new 335, just for it to be succeeded in a matter of months.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Strudle

Zentan-I think the overall jist here is the choice is mostly geographic. If you live in the Northeast or in Minnesota, go with Xdrive. Despite the argument that RWD can be driven in the snow, I have yet to see any RWD cars on the roads in Upstate NY in wintertime. And I've seen plenty of FWD cars stuck on hills, sliding backwards.

You're exaggerating a bit here, with all due respect. Yes AWD with winter tires is better choice for winter but not a "must have" by any means. (We have one of each in my family and I get to drive both regularly as we have tons of snow each winter, less time in AWD since it's my wife's car).

I've never "slid back on a hill" with any of my FWD cars in the past or current RWD, the notion that AWD is some sort of magic climber is not true. Again, it's better but no grip means just that, no grip, no matter the drivetrain. I live north of you and drive through upstate New York, Ontario, Quebec, Vermont, NH and Massachusetts all the time in all kind of weather. The key are winter tires and common sense, no matter what drivetrain.

It's true that RWD vehicles aren't as common though, partially due to availability partially due to marketing and people repeatedly being told that AWD is a must if you live in area with lots of snow. It's a great and very smart choice but not a must.

Have you tried modern BMW with RWD and good winter tires on the snow ?
It's not exactly '90s Crown Vic. weight distribution, traction, stability and tech in general are all lot better in these cars.

[Strudle]

Have you tried modern BMW with RWD and good winter tires on the snow ?
It's not exactly '90s Crown Vic. weight distribution, traction, stability and tech in general are all lot better in these cars.

I've driven a circa-2010 RWD 3 series with all-season tires in the snow, and a 2014 Mustang GT in the snow and wasn't impressed, but neither had Blizzaks or similar. I would still be surprised if a RWD car could climb my 15% grade driveway; it's even a struggle some days with my run flats and X drive. Syracuse is also a bit of a unique situation since we get more snow than any city in the US due to lake effect off Ontario.

[Gamb1t]

It happened so quickly and subtle that xDrive outsells RWD BMW. The latter is becoming the way of the manual shift BMWs. It's a matter of time.

With winter tires, there is very little need for AWD. But there are occasion where you want more traction options then AWD is superior. But for a modern north american metropolitan.... meh. I rather stay home if the snow is that bad.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Strudle

I've driven a circa-2010 RWD 3 series with all-season tires in the snow, and a 2014 Mustang GT in the snow and wasn't impressed, but neither had Blizzaks or similar. I would still be surprised if a RWD car could climb my 15% grade driveway; it's even a struggle some days with my run flats and X drive. Syracuse is also a bit of a unique situation since we get more snow than any city in the US due to lake effect off Ontario.

Trust me I got caught on I81 many times especially Pulaski/Mexico/Cicero area, I know how bad it can be (or how frequently someone hits a deer during summer months). I often drive right along the lake (HW401) and have made many trips to Whiteface. I also drive in Europe frequently and almost exclusively have FWD cars there, no issues at all, winter tires and common sense, it's that simple.

As much as I love my friend's Mustang GT, electronics are nowhere near the level of refinement as modern BMWs are and power in those is just savage. I know few owners where I live who drive them year round (not this particular friend, it's his summer car).

The one you tried, RWD with all seasons is just not a great choice on snow covered roads and not one to judge modern BMW by (neither is my wife's AWD while we're at it, with all season tires. Can be done, but shouldn't in real winter conditions). In my opinion no RWD car should have anything but best tires you can afford during winter months.

I'm not for a sec. saying RWD is "better" or even "right" choice for everyone, I'm just trying to argue that AWD is choice more than "must have". If you live in rural areas, then you could argue it's a must have, but at the same time very few BMW sedans would be suitable for those same areas due to clearance issues.

[Strudle]

With winter tires, there is very little need for AWD. But there are occasion where you want more traction options then AWD is superior. But for a modern north american metropolitan.... meh. I rather stay home if the snow is that bad.

I agree that in 95% of the US this holds true. But if you live east of a Great Lake, especially in a hilly area, a RWD car is a poor choice, especially if you lease and don't want to buy an extra set of wheels and tires.

[Katin]

Xdrive whoop yer ass!

[donkey]

Originally Posted by Katin

Xdrive whoop yer ass!

This comment is a great argument for RWD

[Katin]

Originally Posted by drive335

This comment is a great argument for RWD

I don't understand. Please elaborate.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by hollandog

Ask anyone in NYC, 90% will tell you who needs snow tire when you have AWD.

Worked for a Wall St Multinational for 28years & commuted from the Jersey Shore in a BB StingRay when I was in country. If you wanted a 4x4 you bough a basic Jeep because that was about all there was.

Point is getting around did not & still does not require a 4x4 for most people. For the number of days you get impassable snow in the Metropolitan area don't see the need to drag an extra set of drive wheels around for the rest of the year.

Bottom line a 4x4 will get you moving easier than 2X4 with the same tires but that's all. A 2x4 with snow tires will get you moving better than 4X4 with all season tires. Once your moving its all evened up.

The other important thing missing in most car AWD systems is they don't have a high/low range transfer case which is really what gives a 4X4 system its reputation as a go anywhere system.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Strudle

I agree that in 95% of the US this holds true. But if you live east of a Great Lake, especially in a hilly area, a RWD car is a poor choice, especially if you lease and don't want to buy an extra set of wheels and tires.

And this is the scariest argument many AWD owners make, scary since we all share the same roads.

If you live in that 5% area of US (and Canada) you're referring too you need winter tires, FWD/AWD or RWD. Province of Quebec in fact made them mandatory few years ago.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Originally Posted by Strudle

Zentan-I think the overall jist here is the choice is mostly geographic. If you live in the Northeast or in Minnesota, go with Xdrive. Despite the argument that RWD can be driven in the snow, I have yet to see any RWD cars on the roads in Upstate NY in wintertime. And I've seen plenty of FWD cars stuck on hills, sliding backwards.

You have not seen two wheel drive cars in upstate NY durning the winter because you are too young, however history did not start the day you were born.

This might shock you but from the turn of the 19th century all through the 20th century all the way up to the turn to the 21st century the entire USA regardless of geography managed to drive in the winter with two wheel drive.

Even Ralphs's dad in the Midwest during a late 1940's December snow managed to get to the store for the Daisy Red Rider BB gun.

Country is turning from the home of the brave into the land of the snowflakes.

[donkey]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

You have not seen two wheel drive cars in upstate NY durning the winter because you are too young, however history did not start the day you were born.

This might shock you but from the turn of the 19th century all through the 20th century all the way up to the turn to the 21st century the entire USA regardless of geography managed to drive in the winter with two wheel drive.

Even Ralphs's dad in the Midwest during a late 1940's December snow managed to get to the store for the Daisy Red Rider BB gun.

Country is turning from the home of the brave into the land of the snowflakes.

Change is hard, isn't it?

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Actually change is quite easy to manage made a career of it & there is nothing wrong with AWD. Its the attitude that we are all going to die if we go out in the snow without it that bothers me.

Its right up there with can I take my BMW on an 800 mile trip or should I rent a car.

Was a senior tracked vehicle recovery mechanic in the service & pulled more than a few full tracked main battle tanks, APC & AFV's out of ditches when they ran off the roads in snow. 4X4 & 6X6 trucks were not invincible in snow either.

How you drive is just if not more important than what you are driving when the weather turns.

The general population has become very risk adverse over the last few decades & people who drive scared scare me.

[Zentan]

I ended up buying a RWD F30 335i but then again that's because it was the right color and options that I wanted. If it were an X Drive, it wouldn't have really mattered to me at the time of purchase. Whether it was RWD or X Drive, it wasn't a huge factor. But after reading all of this, I think I'm glad my car is RWD despite the snow I get here in NY. I also don't think it's worth the extra price tag for an X Drive to endure roughly 10-15 days of intense snow in NYC. Also, I didn't know that X Drive had higher maintenance than RWD, which was another relief.

[Altima]

Originally Posted by Strudle

Having driven in snow in RWD, FWD, and AWD, I prefer AWD. But I also live near the Great Lakes and we have snow on the roads almost every day from November to April, and my driveway is quite steep. I totally disagree that you can climb hills in RWD in packed snow, unless we are talking a mild grade. Also, nothing beats AWD from a standstill on wet roads.

I can barely get my RWD to spin the tires in the heavy rain.. Will AWD bite and go in that situation? Sure.. but so does my RWD. The DWS tires have AMAZING traction on wet roads.

Also I was able to easily get the xDrive model loaner to spin tires the other day (Even in the dry conditions) Having a loaner is a good opportunity to test the limits

[Altima]

Originally Posted by Zentan

I ended up buying a RWD F30 335i but then again that's because it was the right color and options that I wanted. If it were an X Drive, it wouldn't have really mattered to me at the time of purchase. Whether it was RWD or X Drive, it wasn't a huge factor. But after reading all of this, I think I'm glad my car is RWD despite the snow I get here in NY. I also don't think it's worth the extra price tag for an X Drive to endure roughly 10-15 days of intense snow in NYC. Also, I didn't know that X Drive had higher maintenance than RWD, which was another relief.

Excellent choice! You will not regret it. Once you take it in for service, they probably will get you an xDrive loaner.. Then you can push it and do your own comparisons as I was able to do.

Anyway what type of tires does your car have? If driving in ice/snow/rain during winter, please verify that they are at least All Season (M + S on the tires written somewhere).. You can snap a pic and send it here as well to verify.

So winter tips: Push the DTC button to activate DTC Mode when driving in the snow, turn it off when back on the pavement if you are trying to just drive safely. It will tone down the ESC so it doesn't apply too much braking to the front wheels when trying to get through the snow. (ESC brakes individual wheels in less than a second to keep the car pointed where your steering wheel is pointed, but this could work against forward momentum in deeper snow)
It will also allow a little bit of wheel spin which is sometimes needed to get through it.

On a snowy day, go to an empty parking lot and play around with the car a bit to learn the limits.. Test it out in the different driving modes, DTC On/Off, etc. to learn how the car will behave.
While going slow, brake the wheels hard every once in awhile on a backroad to "Test" the traction. Also stab the gas pedal sometimes to break traction for the same type of "test". It will give you an idea of how much you have before getting onto a main road.

Otherwise Enjoy the car! Congrats! Pics please!

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Zentan

I ended up buying a RWD F30 335i but then again that's because it was the right color and options that I wanted. .... But after reading all of this, I think I'm glad my car is RWD despite the snow I get here in NY. I also don't think it's worth the extra price tag for an X Drive to endure roughly 10-15 days of intense snow in NYC.

Great choice, congratulations, but so would be xDrive, it's just the stock suspension on those is a bit... not exactly what I'd consider sporty or what you normally would expect from BMW.

NYC has a lot less snow than where I live, get good winter tires (can't repeat this enough ) and you'll be fine. To be honest, I was very worried initially, mostly reading threads like these where you are told you absolutely shouldn't be driving RWD in the snow. Not true at all, it's perfectly fine, for me very good actually.

Originally Posted by Altima

Excellent choice! You will not regret it. Once you take it in for service, they probably will get you an xDrive loaner.. Then you can push it and do your own comparisons as I was able to do.....

So winter tips: On a snowy day, go to an empty parking lot and play around with the car a bit to learn the limits.. Test it out in the different driving modes, DTC On/Off, etc. to learn how the car will behave.
While going slow, brake the wheels hard every once in awhile on a backroad to "Test" the traction. Also stab the gas pedal sometimes to break traction for the same type of "test". It will give you an idea of how much you have before getting onto a main road.

Some great advice here, yes, for sure do this, on snow, but also in wet.
Get great tires and you've got nothing to worry about.