E30 Fueling

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 02:29 PM

Hi everyone -

I'm contemplating getting some E30 and flashing BM3's E30 OTS map to test and log. I wasn't sure of the procedure....

Procedure 1

Drive to E85 pump. Add required amount, flash, move to pump and add required 93.

Procedure 2

Drive to E85 pump. Add required amount. Move to 93 pump, add required amount THEN flash?

I guess my question is, can I add 85 and 93 THEN flash? That would make life easier, but I don't want to mess anything up.

Thanks guys.

thejeremyman9 · 11-11-2020, 02:52 PM

How far apart are the pumps? Its not really a big deal to drive gently for a short distance on the E30 map with either only pump gas in the tank or a high ethanol concentration. So if its within a mile or two you should be fine. Of course, stay out of boost. With only pump gas your timing targets will be a little high but DME will compensate. With mostly E85 you are just going to have a really high ethanol content so fueling will be a little off but fuel trims will compensate.

My pumps are from the same station and the same 'pump' (just different nozzles of course) so i never ran into this issue.

The other small consideration is the fuel you will be consuming between the pumps, if you put the E85 first. You might use some of the ethanol you just put in, so when you go to mix the 93, you will have less E85 than you thought, so your E% will be a little lower than calculated. But again, if pumps are close, this wont be an issue. This could also be avoided by starting with say half a tank of 93, going to add your X gallons of E85, then going to top with 93 to complete the mix.

FYI, here's my most recent spreadsheet i use to mix every time i get gas. Ive been using this since March/April and have not ran anything but a E30 target in the tank since then. I also test the E% of both E85 and pump gas about once every two months, which i highly recommend.

Munchi435i · 11-11-2020, 03:49 PM

OR.....

get a 5 gallon container and fill it up with however much E85 you need. Then drive to the 93 pump, add the E85 first and then top off with 93 octane. Then flash E30 map.

Luckily, my pump has both E85 and 93 octane in the same area.

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 04:46 PM

Thanks guys. I failed to mention that the station has both 85 and 93. I'll just flash at the station and fill the tank with the correct mixture. I have a tester coming tomorrow as well.

Have you guys used the iOS app called E85Cal? I was confused as to how I determine subsequent fill ups not knowing how much 93 and 85 to blend, but this calculator makes it simple.

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Have you guys used the iOS app called E85Cal? I was confused as to how I determine subsequent fill ups not knowing how much 93 and 85 to blend, but this calculator makes it simple.

If it is the same as android says current E in tank.. if this is your first fill up that would be E10... after that E30... after you fill up and flash... do a quick run 1st into 2nd gear... if it doesn't hesitate check your logs for fuel pressure and timing...if timing isn't clean... add a little of E if all else components are good (plugs etc)... if it hesitates... add a little bit of 93 (start with a gallon)... best to get a inline sensor...

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastF30

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Have you guys used the iOS app called E85Cal? I was confused as to how I determine subsequent fill ups not knowing how much 93 and 85 to blend, but this calculator makes it simple.

If it is the same as android says current E in tank.. if this is your first fill up that would be E10... after that E30

Look correct if I'm at half a tank? I'm thinking "current ethanol % mix" should be at 0

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Look correct if I'm at half a tank? I'm thinking "current ethanol % mix" should be at 0

Looks good... I edited my last comment ... be sure to read...

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Look correct if I'm at half a tank? I'm thinking "current ethanol % mix" should be at 0

Regular gas has 10% so your good on your jpeg...

thejeremyman9 · 11-11-2020, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Look correct if I'm at half a tank?

Theres nothing attached here if you meant to.

Subsequent fillups are easy. I use the table i posted above. I can easily update it if you test significantly different than 9%/85%.

All i do is drive until i am at a given gas level. For example i just until i have just less than 1/4 tank left. I then assume i am going to fill up with 3/4 of a tank (75% 'fraction of tank to fill'). I caution you here because you always want to assume you can add a little less than what your gauge says you can - so if you want to add 3/4 of a tank, drive to less than 1/4 tank. Otherwise, you might run out of room when adding your pump gas on top of E85 and you might end up with a mix too high.

I dont use any app that is based on how much E% i currently have in the tank. I simply add the correct gallons of pump gas and E85 to target a E30 mix what i am about to add. In this way, the tank should always be at E30 - focus on the gas you are putting in, not what might already be in the tank (obviously except first fillup/mix). Ive never had an issue with HPFP crash using this method over about 7 months. I fill to the hundredth of a gallon accuracy. Its extremely easy to overshoot with how little E85 you add sometimes, so fill manually, otherwise you might overshoot just trying to read a text or something.

EDIT: I see attachment now. Looks right if you assume 10%/85%. Mine tested at 9% so i adjusted slightly.

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastF30

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Look correct if I'm at half a tank? I'm thinking "current ethanol % mix" should be at 0

Regular gas has 10% so your good on your jpeg...

But wouldn't "pump gas ethanol % at pump" account for that?

thejeremyman9 · 11-11-2020, 05:13 PM

I would also add, after your first mix, drive about 5 miles to make sure everything is nice and mixed. Then, do a 4th gear log and a 1-4 log. I found larger dips in pressure in 1-4 logs than 4th gear pull, especially when recovering from the 'normal' dip that occurs on shift.

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

But wouldn't "pump gas ethanol % at pump" account for that?

it does.. but you currently have gas in the car that has 10% ethanol in it... you have to account for that in the formula...

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I found larger dips in pressure in 1-4 logs than 4th gear pull, especially when recovering from the 'normal' dip that occurs on shift.

1st to 2nd is good enough and you don't break any laws for the most part... we all can't have a cool place to run next to the tracks... lol... you lucky guy...

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 05:38 PM

So if I'm at half a tank of 93 now, does the above calculation look correct for initial fill up?

4.21 G of 85
3.68 G of 93

This is for a 14 335 with a 15.8 G tank. Currently at 50% fuel level of 93.

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

But wouldn't "pump gas ethanol % at pump" account for that?

After you do your run and if it doesn't hesitate... look at the fuel pressure... if it more than a 200 drop add a little fuel...

I'm about to do this check on the tank I just filled up on cause I didn't have time to do it right after fill-up... Hoping I put enough "E" in and only have to put gas into it to get it perfect... The "E" station is 25+ minutes away... just washed my car yesterday... so waiting for the rain to stop... weather says not till Friday...

Oh yea.. did you guys see the pictures of my car with it's new coilovers? I'm very happy..

here's the Link

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

So if I'm at half a tank of 93 now, does the above calculation look correct for initial fill up?

4.21 G of 85
3.68 G of 93

This is for a 14 335 with a 15.8 G tank. Currently at 50% fuel level of 93.

Yes.. Yes... Yes... next fill up after this one just change the 10 to a 30 where it says "Current Ethanol % mix".... then your set for fueling up moving forward..

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastF30

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

So if I'm at half a tank of 93 now, does the above calculation look correct for initial fill up?

4.21 G of 85
3.68 G of 93

This is for a 14 335 with a 15.8 G tank. Currently at 50% fuel level of 93.

Yes.. Yes... Yes... next fill up after this one just change the 10 to a 30 where it says "Current Ethanol % mix".... then your set for fueling up moving forward..

Many thanks 🙏

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Many thanks 🙏

If you use this App or get a Sensor you still have to do the logs to make sure it is at optimum mix for performance for your car... This last tank of gas lasted 2+months for me and was still at 3/8 tank when I filled up, so no big deal for me...

XxThe_RemedyXx · 11-11-2020, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastF30

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Many thanks 🙏

If you use this App or get a Sensor you still have to do the logs to make sure it is at optimum mix for performance for your car... This last tank of gas lasted 2+months for me and was still at 3/8 tank when I filled up, so no big deal for me...

Did you use an ethanol stabilizer?

thejeremyman9 · 11-11-2020, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Did you use an ethanol stabilizer?

I dont think this is necessary with E30. I decided to add the lucas one to my 3000gt but that's because it has fuel lines and whatnot from 1991 and it sits with full E85 for weeks/months at a time, only getting driven once every three weeks and E85 tanks lasts months. If your car isnt going to sit for an extended period of time with high ethanol content i wouldn't do it. I was also a little concerned about deposits from running it, but that might be unfounded.

FastF30 · 11-11-2020, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Did you use an ethanol stabilizer?

I still have a tiny amount of boostane in the tank that is good for anti corrosion against ethanol, but I don't know about stabilizers... I am worried about moisture absorbance so I like to burn a tank within a couple of months +/-... I don't think stabilizer is needed for this routine...

ZM2 · 11-11-2020, 09:49 PM

I used the CalculatE85 app when I was doing E30 mixes.

One of the main reasons I put my Dorch HPFP on was so I could start doing half E85/93 at the pump, and not have to mess with the app.

11-11-2020, 02:29 PM	#1
XxThe_RemedyXx Colonel 967 Rep 2,653 Posts Drives: 2016 340i xDrive Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Westchester, NY iTrader: (0)	E30 Fueling Hi everyone - I'm contemplating getting some E30 and flashing BM3's E30 OTS map to test and log. I wasn't sure of the procedure.... Procedure 1 Drive to E85 pump. Add required amount, flash, move to pump and add required 93. Procedure 2 Drive to E85 pump. Add required amount. Move to 93 pump, add required amount THEN flash? I guess my question is, can I add 85 and 93 THEN flash? That would make life easier, but I don't want to mess anything up. Thanks guys. __________________ 2016 340i xDrive - BM3 Stage 2 93 OTS - xHP Transmission Tune Stage 2 - B58TU HPFP - Bilstein B14 - VRSF Catless DP - Kyostar CAI
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11-11-2020, 02:52 PM	#2
thejeremyman9 Major General 4362 Rep 7,602 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2019 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	How far apart are the pumps? Its not really a big deal to drive gently for a short distance on the E30 map with either only pump gas in the tank or a high ethanol concentration. So if its within a mile or two you should be fine. Of course, stay out of boost. With only pump gas your timing targets will be a little high but DME will compensate. With mostly E85 you are just going to have a really high ethanol content so fueling will be a little off but fuel trims will compensate. My pumps are from the same station and the same 'pump' (just different nozzles of course) so i never ran into this issue. The other small consideration is the fuel you will be consuming between the pumps, if you put the E85 first. You might use some of the ethanol you just put in, so when you go to mix the 93, you will have less E85 than you thought, so your E% will be a little lower than calculated. But again, if pumps are close, this wont be an issue. This could also be avoided by starting with say half a tank of 93, going to add your X gallons of E85, then going to top with 93 to complete the mix. FYI, here's my most recent spreadsheet i use to mix every time i get gas. Ive been using this since March/April and have not ran anything but a E30 target in the tank since then. I also test the E% of both E85 and pump gas about once every two months, which i highly recommend. Attached Images
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11-11-2020, 03:49 PM	#3
Munchi435i Major 485 Rep 1,105 Posts Drives: 2014 Alpine White 435i M-sport Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Orlando FL iTrader: (0)	OR..... get a 5 gallon container and fill it up with however much E85 you need. Then drive to the 93 pump, add the E85 first and then top off with 93 octane. Then flash E30 map. Luckily, my pump has both E85 and 93 octane in the same area.
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11-11-2020, 04:46 PM	#4
XxThe_RemedyXx Colonel 967 Rep 2,653 Posts Drives: 2016 340i xDrive Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Westchester, NY iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys. I failed to mention that the station has both 85 and 93. I'll just flash at the station and fill the tank with the correct mixture. I have a tester coming tomorrow as well. Have you guys used the iOS app called E85Cal? I was confused as to how I determine subsequent fill ups not knowing how much 93 and 85 to blend, but this calculator makes it simple. __________________ 2016 340i xDrive - BM3 Stage 2 93 OTS - xHP Transmission Tune Stage 2 - B58TU HPFP - Bilstein B14 - VRSF Catless DP - Kyostar CAI
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11-11-2020, 05:13 PM	#11
thejeremyman9 Major General 4362 Rep 7,602 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2019 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	I would also add, after your first mix, drive about 5 miles to make sure everything is nice and mixed. Then, do a 4th gear log and a 1-4 log. I found larger dips in pressure in 1-4 logs than 4th gear pull, especially when recovering from the 'normal' dip that occurs on shift.
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11-11-2020, 05:38 PM	#14
XxThe_RemedyXx Colonel 967 Rep 2,653 Posts Drives: 2016 340i xDrive Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Westchester, NY iTrader: (0)	So if I'm at half a tank of 93 now, does the above calculation look correct for initial fill up? 4.21 G of 85 3.68 G of 93 This is for a 14 335 with a 15.8 G tank. Currently at 50% fuel level of 93. __________________ 2016 340i xDrive - BM3 Stage 2 93 OTS - xHP Transmission Tune Stage 2 - B58TU HPFP - Bilstein B14 - VRSF Catless DP - Kyostar CAI
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11-11-2020, 09:49 PM	#22
ZM2 Brigadier General 2811 Rep 3,695 Posts Drives: 2017 LBB M2 Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Baltimore iTrader: (1)	I used the CalculatE85 app when I was doing E30 mixes. One of the main reasons I put my Dorch HPFP on was so I could start doing half E85/93 at the pump, and not have to mess with the app.
	Appreciate 1 imperfectluck425.00 Quote