[thejeremyman9]

Alright there's been dozens of posts here in like the last 24 hours but wanted to comment on a few things.

As i think you have realized, you can't siphon any gas out of the tank through the fill neck as it is blocked. So, unless you disconnect a few line or something you aren't going to be able to test what is in the tank without an analyzer.

Yes, you can run ethanol mix on the 93 map, and it is common to add a bit of E85 while running the pump gas maps to improve octane and timing. However, if you are crashing HPFP on E30 map, you do not want to run E30 on the 93 map, for several reasons. First, the 93 map targets higher boost then the ethanol map because it is trying to make power with boost instead of timing. So if you are creashing on E30, you will definitely crash on 93 map with E30 in the tank, not to mention fueling will be off in the first place so you will be relying on STFTs. It also doesnt really make sense because the 93 map isnt going to target as much timing as the E30 map so you dont need all that ethanol and even if you have perfect timing it will make less power than the E30 map....

Back to the E30 map and HPFP crashing. You don't need to run E30 precisely on the E30 map. If you 93 is good quality, you may be able to get away with E20 or E25 without having timing issues and thereby avoiding the HPFP crash. Those of us with shitty 91 need all the ethanol we can get, and we might even have some timing corrections with E30 when 91 is the base mix. This is precisely why i run E30 mix on the MHD E20 map, because my 91 is awful here in California. So if you found that you couldn't run E30, dial back to a E25 target mix and target that precisely on the next fillup. Don't even try to guess what your current mix is if you diluted down with some 93 after targeting E30. Just keep targeting E25 (or whatever % works for you to find a balance between good timing and avoidining HPFP crash) on each fillup and as long as you run your tank fairly low (doesnt need to be on empty), you will be basically E25 after the next fillup. You don't need to overthink it or worry about it, just figure out how many gallons of 93 and E85 you need for that E% based on how much room you have in your tank and focus on that. That's exactly why i use the table i created and posted earlier.

Also, the dips in HPFP pressure on shift are going to happen regardless of what map you are running or if you are running any ethanol; its just the way the fuel control works. I do recommend a 1-2-3 or 1-2-3-4 pull from a dig in addition to the 4th gear pull when trying to make sure your HPFP doesnt crash. Yes, 4th puts the car under more load than 1/2/3 which is why its the best gear overall to log in while mataining reasonable speed, especially to check for boost control, but the multi gear pulls may reveal HPFP dips that 4th gear doesn't.

Another thing to keep in mind since you are running BM3 is ambient conditions. Since it a flat boost target and not load based, you may have HPFP issues in colder weather than do not appear when ambient temps/IATs are higher, and vice versa.

Hope this helps. The E mixing doesnt need to be complicated. I recommend finding the E% that works for you, creating a table like I do based on measured E% in 93/E85, and then targeting your specific E% on each fillup using that table and the fraction of the tank you have available to fill up with fuel. All i do when i go to the gas station is pull up that table on my phone and look at what fraction of the tank i am filling (be it half, 65%, 80%, etc), add my E85 and 91, and i am on my way.

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Here's today's 4th gear pull:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb1...0b435b30ba85e1

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Here's today's 4th gear pull:

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb1...0b435b30ba85e1

This is after adding the 1gal 93 to bring E% down? timing looks perfect. You can probably dial back E% a little more if you wanted to, in order to avoid the HPFP dips. I wouldnt really call it a crash since its fairly minor dip. FYI, you always want to look at your STFTs when your HPFP is dipping. Yours are still negative, which is a good indication that the dip in pressure you are seeing is not enough to actually cause a fuel supply issue. If your pressure dips enough, youll see STFTs going positive to try and compensate.

The other thing i would note is that your IAT rise is pretty significant... over 20F in a single gear pull. I think i see only a few degrees in a 4th gear pull with VRSF 5''.

I recommend reading my post above for my comments on the earlier posts as well.

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Alright there's been dozens of posts here in like the last 24 hours but wanted to comment on a few things.

As i think you have realized, you can't siphon any gas out of the tank through the fill neck as it is blocked. So, unless you disconnect a few line or something you aren't going to be able to test what is in the tank without an analyzer.

Yes, you can run ethanol mix on the 93 map, and it is common to add a bit of E85 while running the pump gas maps to improve octane and timing. However, if you are crashing HPFP on E30 map, you do not want to run E30 on the 93 map, for several reasons. First, the 93 map targets higher boost then the ethanol map because it is trying to make power with boost instead of timing. So if you are creashing on E30, you will definitely crash on 93 map with E30 in the tank, not to mention fueling will be off in the first place so you will be relying on STFTs. It also doesnt really make sense because the 93 map isnt going to target as much timing as the E30 map so you dont need all that ethanol and even if you have perfect timing it will make less power than the E30 map....

Back to the E30 map and HPFP crashing. You don't need to run E30 precisely on the E30 map. If you 93 is good quality, you may be able to get away with E20 or E25 without having timing issues and thereby avoiding the HPFP crash. Those of us with shitty 91 need all the ethanol we can get, and we might even have some timing corrections with E30 when 91 is the base mix. This is precisely why i run E30 mix on the MHD E20 map, because my 91 is awful here in California. So if you found that you couldn't run E30, dial back to a E25 target mix and target that precisely on the next fillup. Don't even try to guess what your current mix is if you diluted down with some 93 after targeting E30. Just keep targeting E25 (or whatever % works for you to find a balance between good timing and avoidining HPFP crash) on each fillup and as long as you run your tank fairly low (doesnt need to be on empty), you will be basically E25 after the next fillup. You don't need to overthink it or worry about it, just figure out how many gallons of 93 and E85 you need for that E% based on how much room you have in your tank and focus on that. That's exactly why i use the table i created and posted earlier.

Also, the dips in HPFP pressure on shift are going to happen regardless of what map you are running or if you are running any ethanol; its just the way the fuel control works. I do recommend a 1-2-3 or 1-2-3-4 pull from a dig in addition to the 4th gear pull when trying to make sure your HPFP doesnt crash. Yes, 4th puts the car under more load than 1/2/3 which is why its the best gear overall to log in while mataining reasonable speed, especially to check for boost control, but the multi gear pulls may reveal HPFP dips that 4th gear doesn't.

Another thing to keep in mind since you are running BM3 is ambient conditions. Since it a flat boost target and not load based, you may have HPFP issues in colder weather than do not appear when ambient temps/IATs are higher, and vice versa.

Hope this helps. The E mixing doesnt need to be complicated. I recommend finding the E% that works for you, creating a table like I do based on measured E% in 93/E85, and then targeting your specific E% on each fillup using that table and the fraction of the tank you have available to fill up with fuel. All i do when i go to the gas station is pull up that table on my phone and look at what fraction of the tank i am filling (be it half, 65%, 80%, etc), add my E85 and 91, and i am on my way.

Thanks for this... Great information!

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

This is after adding the 1gal 93 to bring E% down? timing looks perfect. You can probably dial back E% a little more if you wanted to, in order to avoid the HPFP dips. I wouldnt really call it a crash since its fairly minor dip. FYI, you always want to look at your STFTs when your HPFP is dipping. Yours are still negative, which is a good indication that the dip in pressure you are seeing is not enough to actually cause a fuel supply issue. If your pressure dips enough, youll see STFTs going positive to try and compensate.

The other thing i would note is that your IAT rise is pretty significant... over 20F in a single gear pull. I think i see only a few degrees in a 4th gear pull with VRSF 5''.

I recommend reading my post above for my comments on the earlier posts as well.

Correct... I added 1G 93 to bring E content down. I've always had an issue with this AA FMIC, never really performed too well. It's also pretty cool here in NY. I may have to look into selling this one and purchasing something bigger. It's a good FMIC for Stage 1 or even Stage 2 if you're not pushing it too much, but with this map I'll need a swap.

[FastF30]

I've been wondering where Jeremy was...lol... it's nice to hear from him cause I'm still learning also... but yea you can add a little more 93 as he mentioned.. timing looks great ... Hp curve looks really nice.. now today's weather is different than yesterday's weather and did you drive the same road etc... so don't get all caught up on the max Hp... see attached for graph...

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by FastF30

I've been wondering where Jeremy was...lol... it's nice to hear from him cause I'm still learning also... but yea you can add a little more 93 as he mentioned.. timing looks great ... Hp curve looks really nice.. now today's weather is different than yesterday's weather and did you drive the same road etc... so don't get all caught up on the max Hp... see attached for graph...

Attachment 2461819

Thank you for this! I'm thinking on next fill up I'm going to target E25 like Jeremy and you suggest. It seems to be the sweet spot for my particular configuration. I'm going to bring the tank down to about 10%ish and fill up on a mixture roughly equating to E25. I'm also going to order the Spool Analyzer with short line. Do you know where I can find installation material for that unit? I can't seem to find anything for this platform.

Pretty stoked at this point. I thought my fuel pump wasn't going to cooperate honestly.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

Thank you for this! I'm thinking on next fill up I'm going to target E25 like Jeremy and you suggest. It seems to be the sweet spot for my particular configuration. I'm going to bring the tank down to about 10%ish and fill up on a mixture roughly equating to E25. I'm also going to order the Spool Analyzer with short line. Do you know where I can find installation material for that unit? I can't seem to find anything for this platform.

Pretty stoked at this point. I thought my fuel pump wasn't going to cooperate honestly.

You're basically going to be getting to the HPFP if you want to install the analyzer. Depending on your plans with the car, you might want to just jump on a HPFP and analyzer during black friday sales and future proof the car. You could also run the BM3 2+ ethanol map and make even more power if you upgrade the HPFP.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

You're basically going to be getting to the HPFP if you want to install the analyzer. Depending on your plans with the car, you might want to just jump on a HPFP and analyzer during black friday sales and future proof the car. You could also run the BM3 2+ ethanol map and make even more power if you upgrade the HPFP.

@ XxThe_RemedyXx ...Totally agree.. gotta pay for the labor anyways... might as well get the HPFP... boy will I be jealous...lol...

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by FastF30

@ XxThe_RemedyXx ...Totally agree.. gotta pay for the labor anyways... might as well get the HPFP... boy will I be jealous...lol...

You're not helping me save ANY money here!

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

You're not helping me save ANY money here!

Yes we are... why pay for the labor twice when you want to install the HPFP later... your gonna do it... we all do... lol...

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by FastF30

Yes we are... why pay for the labor twice when you want to install the HPFP later... your gonna do it... we all do... lol...

ARGH!!! I got a good pull in this morning but the damn thing didn't get logged!

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

ARGH!!! I got a good pull in this morning but the damn thing didn't get logged!

Yea... it's a great day for doing pulls... cold and low humidity... Might try to do one myself today...

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by FastF30

Yea... it's a great day for doing pulls... cold and low humidity... Might try to do one myself today...

It really is... I emailed Spool Performance today to see if they have installation materials before I place the order. I'd like to see if I can do it myself...

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

It really is... I emailed Spool Performance today to see if they have installation materials before I place the order. I'd like to see if I can do it myself...

Let me know what they say regarding instructions

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Let me know what they say regarding instructions

Of course.

[FastF30]

this might be a consideration....

[XxThe_RemedyXx]

Two logs just now...

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb2...729b68b3a5b937

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fb2...729b68b3a5b938

[Cobra358]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Alright there's been dozens of posts here in like the last 24 hours but wanted to comment on a few things.

As i think you have realized, you can't siphon any gas out of the tank through the fill neck as it is blocked. So, unless you disconnect a few line or something you aren't going to be able to test what is in the tank without an analyzer.

Yes, you can run ethanol mix on the 93 map, and it is common to add a bit of E85 while running the pump gas maps to improve octane and timing. However, if you are crashing HPFP on E30 map, you do not want to run E30 on the 93 map, for several reasons. First, the 93 map targets higher boost then the ethanol map because it is trying to make power with boost instead of timing. So if you are creashing on E30, you will definitely crash on 93 map with E30 in the tank, not to mention fueling will be off in the first place so you will be relying on STFTs. It also doesnt really make sense because the 93 map isnt going to target as much timing as the E30 map so you dont need all that ethanol and even if you have perfect timing it will make less power than the E30 map....

Back to the E30 map and HPFP crashing. You don't need to run E30 precisely on the E30 map. If you 93 is good quality, you may be able to get away with E20 or E25 without having timing issues and thereby avoiding the HPFP crash. Those of us with shitty 91 need all the ethanol we can get, and we might even have some timing corrections with E30 when 91 is the base mix. This is precisely why i run E30 mix on the MHD E20 map, because my 91 is awful here in California. So if you found that you couldn't run E30, dial back to a E25 target mix and target that precisely on the next fillup. Don't even try to guess what your current mix is if you diluted down with some 93 after targeting E30. Just keep targeting E25 (or whatever % works for you to find a balance between good timing and avoidining HPFP crash) on each fillup and as long as you run your tank fairly low (doesnt need to be on empty), you will be basically E25 after the next fillup. You don't need to overthink it or worry about it, just figure out how many gallons of 93 and E85 you need for that E% based on how much room you have in your tank and focus on that. That's exactly why i use the table i created and posted earlier.

Also, the dips in HPFP pressure on shift are going to happen regardless of what map you are running or if you are running any ethanol; its just the way the fuel control works. I do recommend a 1-2-3 or 1-2-3-4 pull from a dig in addition to the 4th gear pull when trying to make sure your HPFP doesnt crash. Yes, 4th puts the car under more load than 1/2/3 which is why its the best gear overall to log in while mataining reasonable speed, especially to check for boost control, but the multi gear pulls may reveal HPFP dips that 4th gear doesn't.

Another thing to keep in mind since you are running BM3 is ambient conditions. Since it a flat boost target and not load based, you may have HPFP issues in colder weather than do not appear when ambient temps/IATs are higher, and vice versa.

Hope this helps. The E mixing doesnt need to be complicated. I recommend finding the E% that works for you, creating a table like I do based on measured E% in 93/E85, and then targeting your specific E% on each fillup using that table and the fraction of the tank you have available to fill up with fuel. All i do when i go to the gas station is pull up that table on my phone and look at what fraction of the tank i am filling (be it half, 65%, 80%, etc), add my E85 and 91, and i am on my way.

Great post, very well explained. Its a balance between getting enough octane to keep decent timing, and having enough fuel available when running E20 or more. I was running low rail pressures on E30 BM3 stage 2, I went to the supra pump and E30 stage 2+ map. I still needed to go up to E37 to keep timing happy as I am mixing 91 and E54 to get to e37. I log once a month to be sure.

The bottom line is, you need to run more E to keep timing happy, and you need more fuel pump to not run too low of rail pressures, more power and much safer.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by FastF30

this might be a consideration....

I talked about why one would consider WMI versus upgraded HPFP recently in one of the other fueling question threads. The "best" fueling answer depends on your particular goals, fuel quality in your area, willingness to mix ethanol (and access to it) etc.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Cobra358

Great post, very well explained. Its a balance between getting enough octane to keep decent timing, and having enough fuel available when running E20 or more. I was running low rail pressures on E30 BM3 stage 2, I went to the supra pump and E30 stage 2+ map. I still needed to go up to E37 to keep timing happy as I am mixing 91 and E54 to get to e37. I log once a month to be sure.

The bottom line is, you need to run more E to keep timing happy, and you need more fuel pump to not run too low of rail pressures, more power and much safer.

FYI you might want to read the HPFP thread about concerns with running a B58 HPFP on a N55. Apparently you don't want to do that long term; forgot if it was cam lobe differences or what.

[FastF30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

I talked about why one would consider WMI versus upgraded HPFP recently in one of the other fueling question threads. The "best" fueling answer depends on your particular goals, fuel quality in your area, willingness to mix ethanol (and access to it) etc.

I remember... cost.. mixing... quality... availability... I'm starting to favor this set-up...

I just did a 4th gear pull with my new plugs and for some reason it didn't log... was on automatic logging and I know it was connected cause the dials were working..

gonna try again later

Update: I know what happened... It was working then I stopped over at work right before the run and shut the car off... turned the car back on and didn't reset the logging...