[M2Andy]

Just looking for some advice and opinion from you chaps...
As some of you know, I recently bought an Elise from one of the main Lotus ‘independent’ specialists, note this is small business operating under the owners name rather than a franchise just to set the scene.

Anyway the car was sold as having a fsh was mentioned in a video walk around that it had a service in September. Upon delivery there was no evidence of this in the book nor was there a receipt or invoice. He knew the specialist garage so he asked me to send the book back to him to get it retrospectively updated.

In the meantime further investigations revealed it hadn’t been done and was in fact due which then let to a heated debate with the owner who said he had no more money in the deal and it was such a good car. He even asked why would I not be reasonable to which I pointed out I was being perfectly reasonable by offering to drive the car myself to a ‘local specialist’ which would involve 120 miles as I’d have to leave it there for a few days.

Fast forward another week and a problem with the car (plus his p1$$ poor attitude) means it has now been rejected and returned at my cost under distance selling rules but here’s the kicker... Royal Mail appear to have lost the service book as its now been 11 working days and it’s still not delivered.

The dealer is refusing to refund the money for the car until it’s in his hand. My argument is we would never have been in this situation had he have done his checks properly and even then, as per his written request, I followed his instruction and returned it via recorded delivery. Hindsight is great and special delivery would have been better and offered better tracking but too late now.

Anyway, where do you think I stand on this?

I’m remaining calm and patient despite the dealers pretty poor attitude on the phone and in emails but I’m getting close to losing my s@#t with them however I’m giving them the 14 days allowed by law to return and getting myself ready for whatever lies ahead.

[Sennen]

I wouldnt have even parted with any money on a used Lotus without a full professional check and all the paperwork in my hand

They are notorious for having chequered history, the guy that bought mine employed a Lotus Specialist to give it a full survey, and he knew me...... money well spent imo.

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I wouldnt have even parted with any money on a used Lotus without a full professional check and all the paperwork in my hand

They are notorious for having chequered history, the guy that bought mine employed a Lotus Specialist to give it a full survey...... money well spent imo.

Thanks but point being this is a specialist and until sept it does have a fsh.

I’ll be clearer, this is more a question about the service book being lost and where I stand with the refund

[Sennen]

So you purchased the car on the premise that it had a FSH but it wasnt available when you picked the car up?

If so why pick the car up until you had sight of the FSH, or am i missing something?

[Tengocity]

I'm not sure it's grounds for not refunding the car, but I suspect there will need a be a conversation about compensation for the lost service book. If there's still invoices and documentation (which I like to see over and above stamps in a book) then it should be partly recoverable.

[Tengocity]

I've just thought.. could be that he's received the log book and chose not to mention it. Not that there's a whole lot you can do about it, but probably worth considering in the back of your mind.

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by Sennen

So you purchased the car on the premise that it had a FSH but it wasnt available when you picked the car up?

If so why pick the car up until you had sight of the FSH, or am i missing something?

The car was distance bought and delivered to me hence rejecting it under distance selling.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by M2Andy

The car was distance bought and delivered to me hence rejecting it under distance selling.

You are a brave man

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I've just thought.. could be that he's received the log book and chose not to mention it. Not that there's a whole lot you can do about it, but probably worth considering in the back of your mind.

It’s an outside possibility however RM is still showing as outstanding on the website and even though physical signatures are not required atm, RM confirmed in the current climate, posties are signing themselves so unless the dealer and the postie are in cahoots, I suspect it’s lost in the network somewhere... probably “cos covid”

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I'm not sure it's grounds for not refunding the car, but I suspect there will need a be a conversation about compensation for the lost service book. If there's still invoices and documentation (which I like to see over and above stamps in a book) then it should be partly recoverable.

Yes all invoices present and correct which I agree probably carry more weight than a stamp in a book. Frustrating thing is, if he had paid for the postage to get the book back, it would be his liability I suspect but because I paid for it and sent it via the service he requested (recorded and not tracked guaranteed) I think this is the grey area.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by M2Andy

Yes all invoices present and correct which I agree probably carry more weight than a stamp in a book. Frustrating thing is, if he had paid for the postage to get the book back, it would be his liability I suspect but because I paid for it and sent it via the service he requested (recorded and not tracked guaranteed) I think this is the grey area.

I think the key thing this helps with is that he doesn't have any substantial grounds to not accept the rejection, as the service history is verifiable.

[Sennen]

Is the car ok apart from this missing service?

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by Sennen

Is the car ok apart from this missing service?

Doubt it since he put this:

Originally Posted by M2Andy

Fast forward another week and a problem with the car

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Doubt it since he put this:

Yes sorry i missed that.

Seems crazy to me that you would buy a car like a used Elise over the phone, I personally would want to not only be crawling all over it before i parted with a penny but see all the paperwork and get a professional of some description to give it an in depth inspection.

When i got rid of mine earlier this year to an aquaintance from my Golf Club he came with a Lotus Specialist who went over it with a fine toothed comb for at least an hour.

[isleaiw1]

I'd say its time for a strongly worded email:

- your description of the car in the original ad as false;
- i have complied with your requirements to return the service book in the manner you requested;
- the car has been returned at my cost and I havent asked for that to be refunded (yet);
- he has no rights to retain funds so return forthwith or you will have no choice but to go down the legal route

by email and recorded delivery

Then decide what to get next....

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by Sennen

Yes sorry i missed that.

Seems crazy to me that you would buy a car like a used Elise over the phone, I personally would want to not only be crawling all over it before i parted with a penny but see all the paperwork and get a professional of some description to give it an in depth inspection.

When i got rid of mine earlier this year to an aquaintance from my Golf Club he came with a Lotus Specialist who went over it with a fine toothed comb for at least an hour.

Whilst it’s a free world and I did ask for opinion, I did clarify after your first post that I was after opinion specifically on the service book and refund situation, not the buying process which is protected under distance selling.
It’s not my first rodeo but I accept some people are more cautious than others

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I'd say its time for a strongly worded email:

- your description of the car in the original ad as false;
- i have complied with your requirements to return the service book in the manner you requested;
- the car has been returned at my cost and I havent asked for that to be refunded (yet);
- he has no rights to retain funds so return forthwith or you will have no choice but to go down the legal route

by email and recorded delivery

Then decide what to get next....

That’s what I’m thinking but going to let the dust settle for a couple of days as he is entitled to inspect the car and refund within 14 days so I’m playing the long game. Also hoping he finds another buyer in the meantime which could help him lick his wounds

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Does show the benefit of the BMW service history being recorded in the idrive. Do you or the dealer have any record of the previous services to get duplicates or are there records kept on any Lotus central database? I don't think it's reasonable for him to withhold the full refund due to the missing service book, the car is not worthless without it.

All previous invoices and paperwork are present so yes in theory it would be possible to rebuild the service book if it came to it.
Im just hoping royalmail sort themselves out and find it very soon although after this long I’m beginning to fear the worst

[M2Andy]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Doubt it since he put this:

It’s probably more nit picking now as I’m annoyed with said dealer so whilst I would have happily let a couple of minor points slide and sorted myself, they are now part of the overall impression and buying experience compounded by his poor post-sales attitude.

[M2Andy]

Thanks for the feedback and advice.
I’m going to sit tight for a couple of days and go from there.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by M2Andy

That’s what I’m thinking but going to let the dust settle for a couple of days as he is entitled to inspect the car and refund within 14 days so I’m playing the long game. Also hoping he finds another buyer in the meantime which could help him lick his wounds

Good plan. Save the tracking info from RM. Accept he can charge a reasonable mileage cost for the miles you have put on it whilst you have had it, and give him his 14 days....

[Harryg]

RM is very poor on recorded delivery they offer compensation to the value of the parcel, I had one that was undeliverable got lost on the way back and then got a letter off them asking what the value of the parcel was and to show receipts to prove its value quite honestly it wasn't worth the bother however, it did turn up a week later when they eventually found it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing now I use SD signed for its not that much more expensive and can save a lot of grief. Good luck with your problem hope you get it sorted