[spiderscoobs]

Haven't managed to get a test drive of either engine yet, dealers full of 320ds, anyone managed to drive both with thoughts to share?

[Steven1077]

I doubt many dealers would want a 335i for a demo car as most people choose the diesel, no doubt the petrol is more refined but a lot worse on fuel, I do find my 335d a bit course so I've traded it for a 435i which I should get in April

[Eccles Ken]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

I doubt many dealers would want a 335i for a demo car as most people choose the diesel, no doubt the petrol is more refined but a lot worse on fuel, I do find my 335d a bit course so I've traded it for a 435i which I should get in April

Interesting Steven because a number of people on another thread say that the diesels settle and become much smoother and responsive after a fair amount of driving.

I wonder if you gave the 335D a chance to knock off its rough edges?

[Tengocity]

I know where Steven is coming from, but I'd say it's more of an issue with the disel installation on a 3 series. A 520d is still more refined than a 330d or 335d.

I think it all depends on how many miles you're doing, ours will do 25k miles per year so the 40mpg of the 335d (or 45ish of a 330d) makes a big difference over the likely 30mpg of a 335i.

Less than 12-15k then I'd go petrol myself!

[rich100]

Suspect Bmws quoted figured are probably optimistic unless a lot of long runs are involved. I can achieve 30-35 on a run at a reasonably steady speed but driving in town or short journeys tends to produce mid 20s.im in a 320i so clearly not a direct comparison but I've never yet managed low 40s as the figures suggest is achievable.

At the moment for me the mpg is not a big issue as I'm only doing about 9k miles. As tengo said I think it very much depends on your mileage, Above 12-15k I'd definitely go for the diesel.

[chiark]

Bear in mind how much it'll be worth in a few years. I had a 330i (manual) E91 and the values I got offered in trade in went from insulting to pitiful. Only a few people want a large petrol engine.

When I sold my 330D, with more miles on it and a year older than the 330i, I got 50% more on trade in than with the 330i (over £3000 more)...

[DaveA]

There are two main differences, I'd say.. Refinement and cost..

Refinement - I would say that, however good the diesel is, the petrol will be more refined..

Cost, though, is a different story..

When I looked at it, about 6 months ago now, I couldn't get the 335i to stack up financially against a 330d. Obviously, the list price is different, but I also factored in differing discounts offered, differing GFV's in the finance offers, mpg's (for my mileage etc), fuel costs, insurance, car tax etc.

Always got the 335i coming out £40/£50 per month more than the 330d (getting on for 10%).

I reckoned 335d and 335i were about the same, financially, But the 330d always came out better off for me financially when I did the numbers.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by chiark

Bear in mind how much it'll be worth in a few years. I had a 330i (manual) E91 and the values I got offered in trade in went from insulting to pitiful. Only a few people want a large petrol engine.

When I sold my 330D, with more miles on it and a year older than the 330i, I got 50% more on trade in than with the 330i (over £3000 more)...

I may take advantage of this with my next car change, and swap the Z4 for an E92 335i coupe! The prices of them seem to have really softened and there are a few low mileage ones going for not that much really... a lot of car for the money!

[bwrlane]

I have the 330d but did consider the 335i. For me the ultimate reason for choosing the 330d was residuals and fuel economy. Diesels tend to have better residuals.

Not too worried about refinement, the 330d is refined enough and makes a great sound.

I wondered about the 335i perhaps feeling a little lighter footed in slow corners, but have no evidence to confirm or deny this.

The performance characteristics will be very different. 330d MUCH more low end shove, more accessible power. 335i MUCH more high end performance. The sense of power swelling (not petering out) as you approach the 5000 rpm mark.

330d probably feels faster in normal driving because of that accessible torque. See a gap, punch through it. In the 335i on the other hand, while hardly a weak engine torque-wise, you'd need to think first about whether you're in the right gear.

[davyk31]

A large engine Coupe will always find a market with enthusiasts who don't want the diesel clatter and restricted rev range. A saloon or touring is a different matter where a large petrol engine will have a very limited market and thus the prices offered on trade in will reflect this. There is also some element of this even with the diesel engines, they don't retain a massive premium over the regular 320d engine because again there is a smaller demand. There can of course be a bit of a rarity value but a dealer will never admit that to you.

[moonshine]

i was doing my final sums last night & worked out a similar spec 335xd F31 would only cost about 1.5k more than a 320d sdrive

the difference in full list price is around £8K, but by the time discounts have been applied, this drops to around £3.5k in real numbers, then when you factor in the increased residual of the 335xd - say £16,250 (confirmed) at 4yrs vs say the 320d sdrive at £14k (estimate), there is only a £1.5k difference between the two (plus fuel ecomomy / tax considerations).

that makes you think!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by moonshine

i was doing my final sums last night & worked out a similar spec 335xd F31 would only cost about 1.5k more than a 320d sdrive

the difference in full list price is around £8K, but by the time discounts have been applied, this drops to around £3.5k in real numbers, then when you factor in the increased residual of the 335xd - say £16,250 (confirmed) at 4yrs vs say the 320d sdrive at £14k (estimate), there is only a £1.5k difference between the two (plus fuel ecomomy / tax considerations).

that makes you think!

When I did that kind of comparison, i came up with similar conclusions... hence, now I have a 335d!

[moonshine]

the wife was asking whether going for the lower model (320d ) would not make more sense - even she didn't argue with my logic & man maths!

Back to the OP - i agree there is a niche for big petrol engines in coupes , but in saloons & estates they hold less attraction. and the point i was really making wrt Davyk31's post is there isn't actually a big difference in premium between 2L and 3L deisel engines at the point of sale in reality.

[Eccles Ken]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

When I did that kind of comparison, i came up with similar conclusions... hence, now I have a 335d!

This post and Moonshine's on this subject. Exactement!!!!

When I specced a 330D SE and added my very humble requirements to it, I found £800 difference between that and MSport and I didnt take into account residuals.

The reasons were:-

I wanted 18 " tyres, sports seats, leather seats, adaptive suspension. This narrowed the gap remarkably and as you say the basic dealer contribution was much higher. do you wonder why the majority of users here go for the msport - not for kudos but because it makes sense as Del Boy would say!!

[Steven1077]

The main reason I'm changing my 3 series is I just fell in love with the shape of the 4 series when I had it on loan, I only do 20 miles a day and the diesel just seems to take a lot longer before the heater warms the car up, I don't really think the sort of short journeys I do are suited to a diesel and I'm only getting 30mpg on a good day, I actually think the 335d has a bit too much torque for its own good as the wheels seem to spin even with a small amount of throttle on a damp day so I don’t think I’ll miss the torque, I was happy with a 428i but wanted a bit more refinement and power so I went to the 435i

[chiark]

So much superb man maths on this thread. It's choc full of win.

Get the car you want. Ultimately it'll cost you more if you don't, because you'll end up swapping it in the future for what you do which'll be a bigger cost.

You know it makes sense.

[spiderscoobs]

Useful comments all.
I am inclined to choose the 335i as relatively short journeys & mpg not an issue. I haven't heard the 330d but having returned to petrol with my current car I realised I had missed the sound, the revs & stirring the gears.
Touring to fit family plus dog in, 335i so it feels like a coupe...

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by moonshine

i was doing my final sums last night & worked out a similar spec 335xd F31 would only cost about 1.5k more than a 320d sdrive

the difference in full list price is around £8K, but by the time discounts have been applied, this drops to around £3.5k in real numbers, then when you factor in the increased residual of the 335xd - say £16,250 (confirmed) at 4yrs vs say the 320d sdrive at £14k (estimate), there is only a £1.5k difference between the two (plus fuel ecomomy / tax considerations).

that makes you think!

When I did all my working out, I also added in tax, fuel, servicing etc. I was looking for, as near as damn, an estimate of likely total cost over 3 years/36,000 miles. I kind of had my specification fixed and so compared all the cars to the same spec.

The difference between a 335i and a 330d, in total, was about £5k. Of that, £2.5k was just for fuel, tax etc (about £70 a month, more or less).

Between a 335xd and a 330d, my same table gives a difference of something £1.5k to £2k in favour of the 330d.. But there's not so much in it, to be honest...

I found, like you, that the 320d wasn't really a deal at all, at least in the specification that I wanted, and it worked out more expensive than the 330d overall (as far as I could work out)..!!! What made this work for me is that the cost of the extras I wanted was way more on the 320d than the 330d...

I'm sure the 320d would have worked out cheaper if my specs had been closer to standard base price...

[moonshine]

futhermore buying a 1yr old AUC car makes even less sense!
I found a yr old 330d sdrive with most of the extras i wanted (excluding HUD) - it had 7k miles on it at £33K advertised price and 12%APR! it was £20 per month more expensive than a new fully loaded 335xd! :shocked:

[chiark]

Moonshine, exactly the situation I was in... Started looking at 1 year old approved used, and then found that I could get exactly the car I wanted for about a grand more. This big discounting is bad for residuals, so I hope they stop it soon

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

The main reason I'm changing my 3 series is I just fell in love with the shape of the 4 series when I had it on loan, I only do 20 miles a day and the diesel just seems to take a lot longer before the heater warms the car up, I don't really think the sort of short journeys I do are suited to a diesel and I'm only getting 30mpg on a good day, I actually think the 335d has a bit too much torque for its own good as the wheels seem to spin even with a small amount of throttle on a damp day so I don’t think I’ll miss the torque, I was happy with a 428i but wanted a bit more refinement and power so I went to the 435i

Couple if things I wouldn't agree with .....

I think the heater warms up quite quick and it was one of things I was impressed with against my old E90. I only drive about 4-5 miles to work and it warms up nicely in about half that distance all throughout the winter.

With regards the traction, I've only had the traction control light come on ONCE in the time I've had my car and the reason for that is that I was pulling off on gravel. I think the traction is awesome in the 335d in the dry or wet and certainly a "small amount of throttle" would not cause the wheels to spin in my car. maybe there is something wrong with your car? Or tyre pressures incorrect? Doesn't sound right.

I'd agree with getting around 30mpg on short runs though..... Although I fear you may be getting nearer 20mpg in a 435i!

[Steven1077]

I've not noticed the TC light, you can just feel it jumping about trying to get traction, and I've already had the aux heater replaces so maybe thats not working again, either way I just want to see the back of the 335d