[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by Gabreigns

All seasons in Chicago work just fine.

Mine work just fine as well in New Hampshire. I can go through six inches of snow without a hitch, and no issues with stopping. That includes in the mountains, which I don't believe you have. Most of those advising against xDrive don't have it. Most who advise for having xDrive do have it. The main concern is don't think that either xDrive or snows make you invincible. Most of the vehicles we see sitting in the median strips the day after a storm are AWD SUVs with Massachusetts plates who's owners think it's a good idea to go 70 in a snowstorm.

[tjlees]

Originally Posted by NWest

My $0.02 is If you have an opportunity, you should drive the RWD and AWD versions for your own benefit.

It's great to get everyone's valuable feedback on this beaten-to-death topic, but you will be the one driving this and your opinion should be the deciding factor with this big of an investment.

In the snow and dry with winters

[NWest]

Originally Posted by tjlees

In the snow and dry with winters

and uphill for 10mi straight.

[itrocks4u]

I test drove both. I wanted RWD and had it on ordered but when the car came it wasn't specd to order. There were no more allocations for RWD so I had to go AWD. When I test drove both, the fun part in the RWD was the turns and more turns and the back slipping. My wife drives the car too so don't think she would appreciate the RWD. I now have the AWD.

Unless you want to push the car, you wouldn't feel much difference. But drive it like you stole it so you'd end up pushing it anyways. if you're not worried about winters and are the only driver, keep rwd with winter tires.

[Wakka]

awd does not help you stop any better in the snow than rwd... get winter tires for either set up...

[jtmann]

I came up to Chicago this summer for the Fare thee well shows in my G37s coupe when I was still shopping for my F36. At the time, there were no CG's in my area to test drive, so I thought maybe I would test one out up there, there are a few BMW dealers around. None of them stocked non x-drive vehicles (at least not GC's, I wasn't looking at other series) though, I guess if someone up north is buying a $50k+ vehicle, 90% of the time they will get x-drive. I can't say I'd blame them, but I wasn't interested in an x-drive vehicle since I live in the south.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by jtmann

I came up to Chicago this summer for the Fare thee well shows in my G37s coupe when I was still shopping for my F36. At the time, there were no CG's in my area to test drive, so I thought maybe I would test one out up there, there are a few BMW dealers around. None of them stocked non x-drive vehicles (at least not GC's, I wasn't looking at other series) though, I guess if someone up north is buying a $50k+ vehicle up north, 90% of the time they will get x-drive. I can't say I'd blame them, but I wasn't interested in an x-drive vehicle since I live in the south.

This is now true for all dealerships in the states that have proper winter weather: they don't stock rwd cars, unless rwd is the only thing available. You'd have to custom order.

[casualDIYer]

It's called xdrive not xbrake or xturn. Ever hear anyone say "wow those tires really suck when driving in a straight line at an even speed"? Any tire can do that. Stop and turn is where a tire shows what its worth. No matter how big a fan you are of AWD the discussion comes down to tires not drive train when it comes to traction. AWD sending power to tires of weaker traction ability doesn't bestow more traction to a tire. You live in Chicago, a town with a real hockey team (unlike Toronto where even peewee hockey clubs are better than the Leafs). Kids play ball hockey. Kid runs in front of your car. Now do you want to be on winter or A/S tires? Do you want a cell mate named Al and have to sleep with your back to the wall or keep your life free of major drama? In slippery road conditions get the best traction tires you can afford and flip a coin to decide on drive train.

[KGB_123_99]

Snow tires + xDrive = invincible in snow!

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Less expensive??? $2,000 extra for xDrive. I'd much rather have my RWD dynamics for the majority of the year when the weather is good and have the function of purpose designed winter tires when needed.

Wow $2k for a feature needed 3 times a year. Not cheap. I love it when sales guy says AWD is safer. Hey sales guy I'm not afraid of the road. I'm afraid of other drivers who drive mainly 2wd cars. I guess no car would be even safer, right?

Why does BMW say the RWD i3 is the future of BMW? What? No future if you live north of the 45th parallel?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by jtmann

I came up to Chicago this summer for the Fare thee well shows in my G37s coupe when I was still shopping for my F36. At the time, there were no CG's in my area to test drive, so I thought maybe I would test one out up there, there are a few BMW dealers around. None of them stocked non x-drive vehicles (at least not GC's, I wasn't looking at other series) though, I guess if someone up north is buying a $50k+ vehicle up north, 90% of the time they will get x-drive. I can't say I'd blame them, but I wasn't interested in an x-drive vehicle since I live in the south.

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

This is now true for all dealerships in the states that have proper winter weather: they don't stock rwd cars, unless rwd is the only thing available. You'd have to custom order.

It drives me nuts!

[RM7]

There are people that tell you they drive in iceland with rwd on racing slicks, then there are people that say you need studded tires and awd to drive in seattle in the rain.

Weight on the axles, grades, ice that stays vs snow that melts/sublimates, frequency of ice and snow, amount dumped per storm, availability or frequency of road maintenance and plowing, and a number of other factors go into this decision. I've done the rear wheel drive thing and for the ice where I live, it's very sketchy. Doable with studded tires, except when you have a high performance car with wide tires, you are looking at thousands of dollars to outfit with such tires and hills/grades can still throw you into a slide. Studdless tires become more of an option as you move towards front wheel drive cars, which aren't quite as terrible in the snow, except if you have a lot of hills.

To me, the idea is whether it snows and stays, vs. snows and goes. That and having a winter set of tires for much of the country makes a lot of sense, if for no other reason than you can go for the stick performance tires for the summer.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by cardsdoc

You will not get a consensus on this one - just lots of strong opinions on xdrive vs rear wheel drive. What most agree on, and backed up even by a recent consumer reports review, is that tires are much more important than rwd/fwd/awd in regards to traction. In Chicago with cold temps and a good amount of snow you really should put winter tires on regardless of whether you choose xdrive or RWD. I've chosen xDrive here in Cleveland for more security going up hills and for getting going from a standstill (the major advantage of xdrive) but still put winter tires on. Others prefer the feel of RWD even in snowy locations and in that case winter tires are a must.

Deleted. Oops. Mis-read.

[syhaq88]

If you want a rear wheel drive car, go for an f80 , lol jk
AWD is the way to go. I had a 428i X drive during last winter in NY with AS tire, it was fine. Like people have stated, stay away from other drivers, and you will be fine

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by menncars

Wow $2k for a feature needed 3 times a year. Not cheap. I love it when sales guy says AWD is safer. Hey sales guy I'm not afraid of the road. I'm afraid of other drivers who drive mainly 2wd cars. I guess no car would be even safer, right?

Why does BMW say the RWD i3 is the future of BMW? What? No future if you live north of the 45th parallel?

Depends where you live. I grew up in New England, so I know snow. Even in the Mid Atlantic area (where I am now), we get maybe 6-8 snow "events" per year. They're generally not serious, but it still means about 14 days of fresh or residual snow on the ground. Plus icy days, so figure ~20 days per year. If you own the car three years (conservatively), that's 60 days.

So, 2000/60 = $33. Is getting to work and/or transporting family members safer and with more confidence during inclement weather worth $33 per day? I think so. (Sure-footed acceleration runs in the rain are just a bonus then.)

[KGB_123_99]

AWD is the way to go if you live in the snow belt. Put on some winter tires and your car will be amazing in the snow.

I've driven both 328i RWD and AWD. RWD feels different (better?) when you're really pushing it at 9/10th or more. How often will you do that?

That being said, I can still go around corners sideways with DSC off in my xDrive so you don't need to worry about not having fun.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

There are people that tell you they drive in iceland with rwd on racing slicks, then there are people that say you need studded tires and awd to drive in seattle in the rain.

Weight on the axles, grades, ice that stays vs snow that melts/sublimates, frequency of ice and snow, amount dumped per storm, availability or frequency of road maintenance and plowing, and a number of other factors go into this decision. I've done the rear wheel drive thing and for the ice where I live, it's very sketchy. Doable with studded tires, except when you have a high performance car with wide tires, you are looking at thousands of dollars to outfit with such tires and hills/grades can still throw you into a slide. Studdless tires become more of an option as you move towards front wheel drive cars, which aren't quite as terrible in the snow, except if you have a lot of hills.

To me, the idea is whether it snows and stays, vs. snows and goes. That and having a winter set of tires for much of the country makes a lot of sense, if for no other reason than you can go for the stick performance tires for the summer.

This is the most rational and logical response I've seen in a very, very long time here. There are so many factors involved that can literally vary from neighborhood to neighborhood regardless of where you live. There is no "right" answer for everyone.

I happen to live in a valley in a township that does a very poor job of maintaining their roads in the winter. The 1.5 miles I traverse to get to the main roads are the toughest part of my journey. Anyone who is unsure which way to go needs to evaluate their OWN personal experiences and weigh the options. As noted earlier, a set of winter tires will typically last several seasons. The mere fact that you're using winter tires will also extend your summer tires useful life an equivalent amount. I don't see the extra set of dedicated wheels and winter tires as an added expense. It's just a "different" expense.

Finally, I own BOTH RWD and AWD BMWs. My RWD 335i does OK with Pirelli winter tires (take note that there are significant variations in winter tire options from studless snow/ice tires to performance winter tires). They're not as effective as the Blizzak WS50s I used to use, but they're much more fun in between storms. My AWD 535xiT is indeed unstoppable on Michelin Winter Ice tires. If there were a RWD E61 available that's what I would have. If roads are in very poor shape I typically will not drive my F30. If I had to rely on it as a primary vehicle, I would buy more suitable winter tires before I would buy AWD. The penalties in initial cost, extra weight, extra complexity, reduced performance, and decreased fuel economy do not outweigh the benefits for me personally.

The single most important factor in winter driving is a driver who has a solid understanding of the physics involved in driving in situations with low traction. No amount of technology will ever be able to overcome F=ma.

[thakid22]

Originally Posted by kolosy

I'm torn on whether I want to go xDrive on my 340i order. I've got plenty of years driving rwd cars in Chicago winter with winter tires on, but I do like the simplicity of an AWD car + all seasons instead. Less hassle winter time, less expense (no need for an extra $1500 set of wheels/tires), etc.

All that said, I care about the driving characteristics of the car the most. Has anyone driven them side by side? Assuming msport 6sp for both, are there noticeable performance penalties on the xDrive? There typically are through higher drivetrain loss and added weight...

I will tell you that my 2006 330i Sport Package was more than adequate in snow/ice/slush with Eagle GT Sport tires. Very stable. And capable.

The same can be said for my 2010 535i Sport Package on Continental DWS tires.
Xdrive was not needed nor missed with either of these vehicles.

In particular, the Eagle Sports had stellar summer grip and response, and very good traction in the snow/ice too.

[tjlees]

4WD gives you more traction than RWD when going up hills and powering out of bends - especially if power can be varied between axles

Winter tyres give you similar grip when braking and turning into corners for both 4WD and RWD.

It marginal, but 4WD will grip less than RWD because of the 90ishkg weight difference and possible height difference

[MickAv8r]

I live north of Boston and was fairly well hammered with snow last year. I choose xDrive and ran just the stock all-seasons Pirelli Cinturato's runflats last year. The car was pretty good but when it snows I work from home so I have no "need" to be out on the roads in that crap 95% of the time.

However those Pirelli's just suck in general for performance driving no grip at all. Swapped out to PSS's for summer tires and now that its getting colder its time to start thinking about what I'm going to run for winter. I was toying with the idea of buying a 3rd wheelset and snow tires for the deep winter and the all-seasons for late fall early spring when its too cold for summers but not necessarily snowy. The problem with New England is even though we get pretty nasty storms each year, the roads are cleared pretty quickly and thus most of winter you are driving on very cold but DRY pavement a condition for which snow tires are not always that great on.


I was discussing this with some local enthusiasts recently and many here in Boston are running Nokian WR3G "All weather" tires. Many people know about the Nokian Hakkapelliitta's which are the best snows made but overkill for our weather IMO, the WRG3 I had not heard about. They are a snow rated (*) snowflake stamped all season. They apparently are pretty damn good in the snow but also work quite well in summer. Some are even doing track days with these tires with good results. So these are currently in my plans the Pirelli RFTs are going back on the car in a couple weeks and then will be replaced in a month or so with the Nokians.

I bought xDrive but if I were to do it again or if I upgrade to a 340i I will skip the xDrive. That said I've not really had much to complain about with xDrive the car has been autocrossed and I've run it on several tracks and I have no real problem getting rotation.

[Professor///M]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Mine work just fine as well in New Hampshire. I can go through six inches of snow without a hitch, and no issues with stopping. That includes in the mountains, which I don't believe you have. Most of those advising against xDrive don't have it. Most who advise for having xDrive do have it. The main concern is don't think that either xDrive or snows make you invincible. Most of the vehicles we see sitting in the median strips the day after a storm are AWD SUVs with Massachusetts plates who's owners think it's a good idea to go 70 in a snowstorm.

Best quote ever.

The true answer lies above, and here:

1. If you live in a climate that goes below 40º for a sustained period of time, and has snow, a dedicated set of winter tires should be on your vehicle, regardless of drivetrain

2. If you care about (and can tell) the minuscule difference between driving dynamics of XDrive and RWD during daily driving, then you should buy RWD

3. If you must be at work (i.e. are a 24/7/365 shift worker) at all costs you should get XDrive

4. If you track your car more than 1x a year you should get RWD

5. If you're an idiot, and don't know how to drive in the snow, you're going to end up in a ditch or stuck irregardless of your drivetrain, so you should get what you want and the number of a friendly towing company. Don't even bother with the tires, nor making sure they're bald or not. Don't even check the pressures! (we are speaking hypothetically here, I'm not insinuating that any of you personally are idiots)


How many times do we need to have these common sense conversations? Now let's have a real conversation, auto vs manual!

[MickAv8r]

I'd add:

6. If you have any terrain of note in your commute in the snowbelt go for the xDrive.