[BMHunden]

I have long lusted after an M4. This forum is missing any post like this, so I thought I'd post this ... It will be very controversial.

I have a nicely-specced 2014 435i with the M-performance power package, M-adaptive suspension. This is my fourth BMW.

I recently spent almost an entire day test-driving two M4s, 2015 and 2016 models. Neither had the competition package, but my aim in testing them was to find an upgrade with comparable ride quality for less than twice the trade-in value of my current car.

I did not achieve that aim, and decided to stay with my 435i.

The huge amount of money which I would be required to pay in after the trade-in (equivalent to more than the trade-in value itself) was not the issue:

- ride quality. I would not like to drive the M4 every day. Coming from an E60 530d and then an F10 530d with full adaptive suspension, I traded my previous 435i with passive M-sport suspension for my current 435i, with M-sport suspension, just for the comfort mode. I took a bath in the process. After a day driving two different M4s, I was left dizzy from the head-shakingly harsh ride.

- distant steering, yes, in comparison to the 435i.

- a big deal: no connection between one's right foot and the engine. Huge amounts of unpredictably sudden turbo boost. The car lost traction at least three times over the day, and, bear in mind, I was driving cars which I did not own ... so I was being careful. Overtaking slow traffic on a B-road left me fearing for my life. Really. What is the point of 50 extra kilo-watts and 50nM extra torque, if one cannot actually deploy them to the asphalt????

- ear-splitting engine drone inside the cabin (some sort of nasty resonance). And rattles.

- uncomfortable seats in comparison to the sports seats on my 435i (which are, for some reason, identical to the seats on the M2);

- the full leather interior looked ... underwhelming. Actually, it looked cheap and nasty. Sorry, but I was very disappointed.

- fiddly gearshift in comparison to my sports 8AT. Difficulty in shifting easily and crisply with the shift lever. And the paddles felt inferior to the paddles in my 435i. Yes, they really did. Nasty, sharp and cheap. My fingers may have developed blisters.

- Ultimately, I came away with the sense that I would be trading in my virtually brand-new 435i for around half of its original value for a car which would not make me happier, and might in fact make me unhappy, for more than twice that value. In other words, if I bought my 435i for 800 000 [credits] in 2014, I would trade it in now for 500 000 [credits], with 50 000 [distance units] on the clock and would pay the dealer 600 000 [credits] for an M4 of comparably the same vintage with 25 000 [distance units] on the clock.

I chose to be happy with what I already have.

At the end of the day I was left disappointed by BMW. Why couldn't they have made the M4 the ultimate version of the 4-series? It looks great, but they have "over-cooked" it. They have taken the 4-series and flared its rear wheel-arches to the point of silliness and have compromised its everyday ability by placing its "limits" beyond the reach of the normal, semi-competent driver, and demand an exorbitant premium for the "M4" logo on the trunk lid - while putting multiple M-logos on the 4 series-with-M-sport-package.

I have test-driven the 6-series and am disheartened by the direction which BMW has taken with both the new 6 series and the new 5 series. I have hope for the new 8 series ... but it may be too expensive when it is released. I am therefore happy to drive my 435i into the ground ... My final contentions, fellow Bimmerposters, are that

- the current 4 series is the best BMW produced in many years, and that
- one should think very carefully before looking for something "more" from BMW.

[rlmesq]

There will always be people who buy more power than they can use or handle, like those who post on motorcycle forums that they plan to buy a 1000cc class superbike because they feel they will quickly outgrow a 600cc supersport.

They would be better off with a Ninja 300 or similar bike. If you learn to ride the wheels off of it, you'll be a much better rider... and you're far less likely to have a nasty highside crash because you don't have the throttle control skills to handle 200 hp.

A friend had an old Ninja 250, pink with Barbie decals on the fairings, and would regularly embarrass guys with the newest, greatest superbikes. Hell, Valentino Rossi could probably clean my clock on his pit scooter!

[chicagoshark]

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

I chose to be happy with what I already have.

Please teach me how to do this!!!!!

[BMHunden]

Originally Posted by chicagoshark

Please teach me how to do this!!!!!

It's all about the Zen,
Mr Chicago Shark.

[JamRWS6]

I can understand comments about ride quality or inability to put power down but frankly the rest of it is the "not mine" syndrome where nothing is as good as what you have/are used to. To each his own.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

It's all about the Zen,
Mr Chicago Shark.

Ha ha, so true , for me it came with age.

Somehow I just learned where to draw the line and be perfectly happy, fully knowing there's "better" (even if it's within my reach) out there.

[BEM-S4]

99% of the time for regular driving the best model short of an M is what most folks would prefer if they're being honest with themselves. 335/340 for example.

[ouengineer]

Good choice. The M is a completely different car. My 240 is a similar vehicle (harsh, uncomfortable, similar acceleration and traction), so I know what you mean. With a manual transmission, the boost from a turbo does become very predictable, but it is still a completely different driving experience. I really enjoyed getting the car sideways and fishtailing all over the road.

But now I'm older, and it's lots of fun just to take corners hard when I need to and always have traction. Driving the 240, you have to be very cautious with the gas pedal when the car is not pointed completely straight (unless you are purposely fishtailing across 4 lanes of road...). Now I can floor it at any time, even before corner exit!

[AudiA4]

Interesting. I also recently drove an F80 M4 for the first time a few weeks ago. My daily is similar to yours (2014 335i M-Sport, 6MT Adaptive).

I won't take issue with your comments about drive-ability/putting power down, as my test drive only lasted 15 minutes, but I agree with the harshness/loudness of the vehicle. I immediately questioned the practicality of this as a daily driver.

I was also pretty shocked at how different it felt...completely different car. That being said, I love the looks and power, but not to the extent that it was worth the price premium, at least for me. Furthermore, by all accounts, it's not the best driver's car in its class (Giulia or ATS-V).

[spuntyb]

Pretty close to why I picked up this 335 and threw on a tune. All I do is drive to work and run errands in the area, and the F31 + Thule is perfect for long trips. Not sure when I'd ever use a high-strung, tail-happy RWD car. :

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

Pretty close to why I picked up this 335 and threw on a tune. All I do is drive to work and run errands in the area, and the F31 + Thule is perfect for long trips. Not sure when I'd ever use a high-strung, tail-happy RWD car. :

That's why I've got a Stage 2 M235 with 17" downsized wheels and beefier rubber. There's track ideal and then there's real world (often with shit roads) ideal.

[riskmaker76]

I had the same dilemma a few months ago with my 335.. Do I keep or get a M3? Drove the M3 and M4 for that matter.. I was underwhelmed based on the price...

My friend said, try out the 440 GranCoupe with the MPPSK - Damn!

Had all the luxuries of my 335, PLUS! - Performance honestly hard to be felt vs the M3 (yes much more power - but hard to use on the street) and cost was pretty big difference (over 10k).

I would suggest you trying it out.. its a decent improvement over a 335 honestly in every aspect.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

I have long lusted after an M4. This forum is missing any post like this, so I thought I'd post this ... It will be very controversial.

I have a nicely-specced 2014 435i with the M-performance power package, M-adaptive suspension. This is my fourth BMW.

I recently spent almost an entire day test-driving two M4s, 2015 and 2016 models. Neither had the competition package, but my aim in testing them was to find an upgrade with comparable ride quality for less than twice the trade-in value of my current car.

I did not achieve that aim, and decided to stay with my 435i.

The huge amount of money which I would be required to pay in after the trade-in (equivalent to more than the trade-in value itself) was not the issue:

- ride quality. I would not like to drive the M4 every day. Coming from an E60 530d and then an F10 530d with full adaptive suspension, I traded my previous 435i with passive M-sport suspension for my current 435i, with M-sport suspension, just for the comfort mode. I took a bath in the process. After a day driving two different M4s, I was left dizzy from the head-shakingly harsh ride.

- distant steering, yes, in comparison to the 435i.

- a big deal: no connection between one's right foot and the engine. Huge amounts of unpredictably sudden turbo boost. The car lost traction at least three times over the day, and, bear in mind, I was driving cars which I did not own ... so I was being careful. Overtaking slow traffic on a B-road left me fearing for my life. Really. What is the point of 50 extra kilo-watts and 50nM extra torque, if one cannot actually deploy them to the asphalt????

- ear-splitting engine drone inside the cabin (some sort of nasty resonance). And rattles.

- uncomfortable seats in comparison to the sports seats on my 435i (which are, for some reason, identical to the seats on the M2);

- the full leather interior looked ... underwhelming. Actually, it looked cheap and nasty. Sorry, but I was very disappointed.

- fiddly gearshift in comparison to my sports 8AT. Difficulty in shifting easily and crisply with the shift lever. And the paddles felt inferior to the paddles in my 435i. Yes, they really did. Nasty, sharp and cheap. My fingers may have developed blisters.

- Ultimately, I came away with the sense that I would be trading in my virtually brand-new 435i for around half of its original value for a car which would not make me happier, and might in fact make me unhappy, for more than twice that value. In other words, if I bought my 435i for 800 000 [credits] in 2014, I would trade it in now for 500 000 [credits], with 50 000 [distance units] on the clock and would pay the dealer 600 000 [credits] for an M4 of comparably the same vintage with 25 000 [distance units] on the clock.

I chose to be happy with what I already have.

At the end of the day I was left disappointed by BMW. Why couldn't they have made the M4 the ultimate version of the 4-series? It looks great, but they have "over-cooked" it. They have taken the 4-series and flared its rear wheel-arches to the point of silliness and have compromised its everyday ability by placing its "limits" beyond the reach of the normal, semi-competent driver, and demand an exorbitant premium for the "M4" logo on the trunk lid - while putting multiple M-logos on the 4 series-with-M-sport-package.

I have test-driven the 6-series and am disheartened by the direction which BMW has taken with both the new 6 series and the new 5 series. I have hope for the new 8 series ... but it may be too expensive when it is released. I am therefore happy to drive my 435i into the ground ... My final contentions, fellow Bimmerposters, are that

- the current 4 series is the best BMW produced in many years, and that
- one should think very carefully before looking for something "more" from BMW.

[435MSport6Speed]

I'll add that 435s with MPE sound better than M4s, too.

435 is more than enough car for me to get in trouble with. I appreciate what M cars are but a 4 M Sport made more sense for me. It's a garage queen and weekend toy. The 65k I've got into it is plenty.

[moff]

If money was no object and to me that's the only issue, I'd have an M4 CP in a flash over a loaded 440i with MPPSK.

I can't think of a single thing except fuel consumption where the 440i is better.

Better regulation of the right foot helps with traction.

[jmg]

I traded my 3 month old 340 M Sport with Track Handling for a brand new M3 last year and took a bath on it. Here's my insight:

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

This is my fourth BMW.

The 340i was my 3rd BMW

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

my aim in testing them was to find an upgrade with comparable ride quality for less than twice the trade-in value of my current car.

I did not achieve that aim, and decided to stay with my 435i.

Money was not an issue for me, and yes, the Ms are expensive, and I could totally see someone not wanting to pay that much of a premium for a 3/4 series that's M engineered.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- ride quality. I would not like to drive the M4 every day.

Not an issue for me and I daily drive 80+ miles a day. Many F8X owners can attest that it's a great daily driver.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- distant steering, yes, in comparison to the 435i.

I'm not sure how that is possible at all. The M3/4 has a different suspension setup and feels much more connected and responsive, especially with aftermarket suspension

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- a big deal: no connection between one's right foot and the engine. Huge amounts of unpredictably sudden turbo boost.

I can see how this can be a problem. It takes some getting used to, and honestly, I don't drive in Sport Plus mode all the time because it's a lot of car for just commuting. I find that I spend more time in regular Sport mode than anything else other than when I really want to drive fast. The difference between Sport and Sport Plus is immense. It took a week or so to learn how to handle the car.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

The car lost traction at least three times over the day, and, bear in mind, I was driving cars which I did not own ... so I was being careful. Overtaking slow traffic on a B-road left me fearing for my life. Really. What is the point of 50 extra kilo-watts and 50nM extra torque, if one cannot actually deploy them to the asphalt????

Keep in mind, that if your 435i had the torque of the M3/4, you would be WORSE off in your 435i mainly because of the skinnier rubber, lack of an LSD, and suspension configuration. So really, this is an unfair comparison to your 435i.

I've upgraded to PS4S tires from the OEM CSC5s and it has helped a lot, especially in the wet.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- ear-splitting engine drone inside the cabin (some sort of nasty resonance).

I have the MPE and it is indeed very very loud. However, the drone is from BMWs awful Active Sound. I had a lot of drone in the cabin, but when the active sound was coded off, a lot of it disappeared!!! And this is with a very loud MPE! The Active Sound really is horrible.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

rattle

I have no more rattle in my F80 than I did with my 340i, however, there is less sound deadening in the F80 to save weight. I got lucky with my F80 and I don't notice the rattles that some other F30 AND F80 drivers notice.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- uncomfortable seats in comparison to the sports seats on my 435i (which are, for some reason, identical to the seats on the M2);

I have the non-competition and I found them more comfortable than the sports seats in the 340i.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- the full leather interior looked ... underwhelming. Actually, it looked cheap and nasty. Sorry, but I was very disappointed.

I don't have full leather, but I actually prefer the carbonstructure seats.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- fiddly gearshift in comparison to my sports 8AT. Difficulty in shifting easily and crisply with the shift lever. And the paddles felt inferior to the paddles in my 435i. Yes, they really did. Nasty, sharp and cheap. My fingers may have developed blisters.

LOL I don't know what to say about this. The DCT is superior in every single facet than the ZF8.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- Ultimately, I came away with the sense that I would be trading in my virtually brand-new 435i for around half of its original value for a car which would not make me happier, and might in fact make me unhappy, for more than twice that value. In other words, if I bought my 435i for 800 000 [credits] in 2014, I would trade it in now for 500 000 [credits], with 50 000 [distance units] on the clock and would pay the dealer 600 000 [credits] for an M4 of comparably the same vintage with 25 000 [distance units] on the clock.

I chose to be happy with what I already have.

I'm glad you made the right decision for you. I wasn't completely happy with the 340i and money wasn't an issue, so I made the jump and I've been a happy camper for more than a year.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

At the end of the day I was left disappointed by BMW. Why couldn't they have made the M4 the ultimate version of the 4-series? It looks great, but they have "over-cooked" it. They have taken the 4-series and flared its rear wheel-arches to the point of silliness and have compromised its everyday ability by placing its "limits" beyond the reach of the normal, semi-competent driver, and demand an exorbitant premium for the "M4" logo on the trunk lid - while putting multiple M-logos on the 4 series-with-M-sport-package.

The F8X is an entirely different animal than the F3X. It's not for everyone. The logos don't bother me. To me the M means more than the logo. There is truely some special engineering going on that the regular 3/4 series don't have. True, the M lately has been wandering too far into mainstream consumer wants rather than enthusiast needs and I will wait and see if the next M follows suit before I get another one.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

I have test-driven the 6-series and am disheartened by the direction which BMW has taken with both the new 6 series and the new 5 series. I have hope for the new 8 series ... but it may be too expensive when it is released. I am therefore happy to drive my 435i into the ground ... My final contentions, fellow Bimmerposters, are that

Agreed. I was disappointed with my 5 series loaner. It still felt floaty and disconnected. Maybe the M550i is different? M5?

[goj]

The best upgrade to your car will be the next Gen M440i more power and torque, likely a more lively chassis with upgrades to everything and still comfortable enough to daily for someone with desires like yours

[eluded]

sounds good to me but then again i have a Supra in the stables.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

Huge amounts of unpredictably sudden turbo boost. The car lost traction at least three times over the day, and, bear in mind, I was driving cars which I did not own ..

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by eluded

sounds good to me but then again i have a Supra in the stables.

:

[stormlv]

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

....

- ride quality. I would not like to drive the M4 every day. Coming from an E60 530d and then an F10 530d with full adaptive suspension, I traded my previous 435i with passive M-sport suspension for my current 435i, with M-sport suspension, just for the comfort mode. I took a bath in the process. After a day driving two different M4s, I was left dizzy from the head-shakingly harsh ride.

I have to say, I'm really surprised to hear you say that...

I have recently moved on from a 435d (adaptive suspension) to an M4 (adaptive suspension)
I have the M4 competition package but I specced it with the 19" rims instead of the 20" that come with it.

After driving more than 3600km (2200miles) in two weeks since I got it, I couldn't be more happy on how the car rides.

The ride is really compliant and the difference in harshness is only seen in the worst of roads that we have here.

My wife tells me that she can't tell that the suspension is stiffer.

As an added benefit, she is no longer sick whenever I'm driving spiritedly.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

....

- a big deal: no connection between one's right foot and the engine. Huge amounts of unpredictably sudden turbo boost.

Again, this is not what I experience with my car.
If you put the throttle in Sport+, the response between the right foot and the engine is immediate and awesome.
I never experience that with my 435d, even when I was in the power band.

"In the SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes, the waste gates remain closed under partial load and the mass flow is routed through the turbines, to ensure that the turbo chargers are already rotating at a higher base speed even in standby. Moreover, certain special engine control functions are brought into play that accelerate activation of the turbo chargers. This means that the car responds more closely to the accelerator in SPORT and SPORT PLUS modes." (Jürgen Poggel, Head of Development M Engines.)

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

The car lost traction at least three times over the day, and, bear in mind, I was driving cars which I did not own ... so I was being careful. Overtaking slow traffic on a B-road left me fearing for my life. Really. What is the point of 50 extra kilo-watts and 50nM extra torque, if one cannot actually deploy them to the asphalt????

Unless you were in DSC OFF and trying to do WOT while overtaking, I can't understand how that can be.

Given that it's super nice outside recently, I find myself doing most of my DD in MDM mode (DSC partially off).
I find the amount of grip that you have pretty impressive. The only time I can make the wheels spin, is if I actively attempt to do so.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- ear-splitting engine drone inside the cabin (some sort of nasty resonance). And rattles.

ASD is to blame for this. I notice it as well on the highway, mostly between 2k-3k RPM.
Easy fix - code ASD off (which I'll do soon)

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- uncomfortable seats in comparison to the sports seats on my 435i (which are, for some reason, identical to the seats on the M2);

Myself, the wife and the people that I had in the car would disagree.
Mind you the ZCP seats also lack lumbar support - if that's something you need - ok ... they're worse.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- the full leather interior looked ... underwhelming. Actually, it looked cheap and nasty. Sorry, but I was very disappointed.

Considered it a nice upgrade over the Dakota leather that I had in the 435d...
Don't really see why you'd see it as nasty...but each to its own.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

- fiddly gearshift in comparison to my sports 8AT. Difficulty in shifting easily and crisply with the shift lever. And the paddles felt inferior to the paddles in my 435i. Yes, they really did. Nasty, sharp and cheap. My fingers may have developed blisters.

What's fiddly about it?

Start the car, put it in drive, drive off...
Reverse is like you'd go in a manual. Go left and up.
Switch between sequential and auto by pushing the lever to the right.
To park it, you turn off the car.
Pretty simple in my book.

Regarding the paddles, I know that this is subjective, but I can't for the love of God see how you can consider this nasty, sharp and cheap.

If anything the paddles in my 435d felt cheap in comparison.
They used to wiggle a bit, as if they weren't stuck on properly...

I consider them a nice upgrade over my 435d.
I remember there was even a thread on the DIY forum here, where people were swapping the 8AT paddles with the M3/M4 paddles.

Originally Posted by Mattstrete

...
I chose to be happy with what I already have.
...

I guess this is what counts in the end.
If you don't like it, who am I to tell you otherwise?

That said, I don't feel you correctly portrayed how the M4 feels and is, which is what prompted this post...

[Spain_MSport]

...and I love my 435i M Sport... but secretly I think I would prefer an M4

My 435i is the top one in each photo. They are great cars!

[cfm56d7b]

Before deciding to purchase 2017 BMW 440i Gran Coupe, I spent a lot of time driving M4. As much as I liked M4, as a daily driver 440i GC more than meets and exceeds what I need. MPPSK will make this car even better.

[speedbird19]

The thread is a year old but it came back to life../