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      06-15-2020, 03:15 PM   #1
Rattlesnake86
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Transmission/gearbox noise and shake on cold start

Howdy,

I have an issue and wanted to hear your thoughts.

I own an 2016 4 series, B47 engine (190hp), ZF 8HP automatic transmission.

I bought the car last year, having 89k miles.
Ever since I bought it, at cold start (after staying at least one night off), in P, I hear a strange noise (it looks like a metal rod, which engages or disengages something), and there is a slight shock/bump, as if the car tends to move a little. This happens 1-2 seconds after starting the engine.

Then, that shock seems to be felt when starting the car during the day again, but much less intense than at the first start in the morning. However, the noise can only be heard in the morning, at the cold start.

The car has 100K miles now, it's been like this since I got it, a year ago, but only now have I started to pay attention to this.
I must mention that the gearbox works flawlessly, shows no signs of hesitation or problem in shifting whatsoever.

Could it be something dying out there? I'm curious if you ever experienced this.

Thanks
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      11-09-2020, 03:15 AM   #2
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Hi, the only thing that happened to me once is having the car vibrate in Park (car starts fine in garage but once outside where its colder when I put back in Park it occurs). Other than that there is a very slight push when going into D but only on the first start.
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      05-14-2021, 05:22 AM   #3
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Hi Rattlesnake86 I have the same issue and would like to know if yours was ever solved?

I have a 2018 340i with about 27k km’s. Took it to the dealer last week because I’m still under warranty. They said they’re not familiar with the issue and couldn’t find any error codes. Nonetheless they did a software update and apparently reset the adaptations. Unfortunately it didn’t help, issue is still there.
They are going to take it up with BMW and inform me when there is any news on this subject.
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Last edited by Uni-Rapide; 05-16-2021 at 05:19 AM..
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      05-24-2021, 11:40 AM   #4
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Ah, I finally found a post with the same issue. I just posted in the F30 section and included a video. I too have the cold start jolt after starting the car. Doesn't appear to be present when the car is warm. I have an 2018 330i with only 14k miles. Did anyone else get this issue solved? Uni-Rapide, any info?

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Last edited by shoman24v; 05-24-2021 at 04:11 PM..
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      06-24-2021, 12:56 AM   #5
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Find out anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
Ah, I finally found a post with the same issue. I just posted in the F30 section and included a video. I too have the cold start jolt after starting the car. Doesn't appear to be present when the car is warm. I have an 2018 330i with only 14k miles. Did anyone else get this issue solved? Uni-Rapide, any info?

I have the same issue with my 2018 330i 28k miles. Did you ever find out what was going on?
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      06-24-2021, 08:07 AM   #6
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My 2017 330i does this also. A second or two after cold start, I hear a metal tap followed by slight forward movement, kind of like putting the car in drive with your foot on the brake.

I've seen this questioned several times here, but no resolution, discovery of any issue, or subsequent transmission explosion. I performed a routine drain and fill on mine a few days ago, followed by a full system scan with no trouble codes found. Poking around in the transmission saw nothing unusual or out of place. I suspect it to be normal for this transmission, odd though it may be.
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      06-24-2021, 02:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
My 2017 330i does this also. A second or two after cold start, I hear a metal tap followed by slight forward movement, kind of like putting the car in drive with your foot on the brake.

I've seen this questioned several times here, but no resolution, discovery of any issue, or subsequent transmission explosion. I performed a routine drain and fill on mine a few days ago, followed by a full system scan with no trouble codes found. Poking around in the transmission saw nothing unusual or out of place. I suspect it to be normal for this transmission, odd though it may be.
Hey I tried something this morning maybe you can too... Before I turned the engine on , I disengaged the hand brake... And wouldn't you know it no noise and no movement... First time I haven't had noise and/or movement on a cold start... If you're someone who always engages the handbrake when you park your car, give it a try and let me know what happens for you. I'll try it again also tomorrow when I start up the engine for the first time of the day However if you never engage your handbrake when parked on a flat surface go ahead and let me know about that too
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      06-24-2021, 03:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AZ View Post
Hey I tried something this morning maybe you can too... Before I turned the engine on , I disengaged the hand brake... And wouldn't you know it no noise and no movement... First time I haven't had noise and/or movement on a cold start... If you're someone who always engages the handbrake when you park your car, give it a try and let me know what happens for you. I'll try it again also tomorrow when I start up the engine for the first time of the day However if you never engage your handbrake when parked on a flat surface go ahead and let me know about that too
Interesting...I always engage my parking brake out of habit, even in my garage which is perfectly flat and no reason to do so. I'll try to remember not to do that this afternoon and see what happens tomorrow.
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      06-24-2021, 04:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
Interesting...I always engage my parking brake out of habit, even in my garage which is perfectly flat and no reason to do so. I'll try to remember not to do that this afternoon and see what happens tomorrow.
Even if you don't remember to leave it off, the key was that I disengaged it before starting the engine this morning. So even if you forget tonight, you can still try and remember tomorrow to disengage it before starting the engine. Let me know what happens!
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      06-24-2021, 06:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uni-Rapide View Post
Hi Rattlesnake86 I have the same issue and would like to know if yours was ever solved?

I have a 2018 340i with about 27k km’s. Took it to the dealer last week because I’m still under warranty. They said they’re not familiar with the issue and couldn’t find any error codes. Nonetheless they did a software update and apparently reset the adaptations. Unfortunately it didn’t help, issue is still there.
They are going to take it up with BMW and inform me when there is any news on this subject.
Did you ever find out anything about this? I've got the same thing
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      06-24-2021, 06:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uni-Rapide View Post
Hi Rattlesnake86 I have the same issue and would like to know if yours was ever solved?

I have a 2018 340i with about 27k km’s. Took it to the dealer last week because I’m still under warranty. They said they’re not familiar with the issue and couldn’t find any error codes. Nonetheless they did a software update and apparently reset the adaptations. Unfortunately it didn’t help, issue is still there.
They are going to take it up with BMW and inform me when there is any news on this subject.
Did you ever find out anything about this? I've got the same thing
No update yet unfortunately….
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      06-24-2021, 08:57 PM   #12
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This is the only thing I have been able to find online about this issue, but it's not related to ours specifically, but it is a ZF thing. Check it out, what your thoughts?

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...b-24-08-08.pdf
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      06-24-2021, 09:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
This is the only thing I have been able to find online about this issue, but it's not related to ours specifically, but it is a ZF thing. Check it out, what your thoughts?

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...b-24-08-08.pdf
Yes my independent BMW mechanic mentioned software upgrades for certain models. Seems our models do not apply to this SIB
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      06-24-2021, 09:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AZ View Post
Yes my independent BMW mechanic mentioned software upgrades for certain models. Seems our models do not apply to this SIB
Yeah, not our SIB but reads as the exact same issue.
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      06-24-2021, 09:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
Yeah, not our SIB but reads as the exact same issue.
Yes absolutely
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      06-25-2021, 12:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
Yeah, not our SIB but reads as the exact same issue.
Do you think a software update not specific to our model would work?
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      06-25-2021, 01:23 PM   #17
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Well, of course I forgot to check. My daughter and I got to talking getting in the car this morning and by the time I remembered the engine was already running and the garage door opened.

I'll give it a shot again later, but I have looked into it some more and still hold the same position as earlier.

The above explanation of a transmission start-up self test seems like a plausible explanation, others have theorized that the transmission is applying power to the output shaft only to be stopped by the parking pawl. Either would be sound explanations, but no real cause for concern.

What is consistent though, is that this presents itself across multiple platforms spanning several years, on cars ranging from brand new to 150,000+ miles. No one has yet to report any damage or problems stemming from it. The only misfortunes I have found were those who spent high sums of money trying to eliminate it, only to find in the end, it was just as routine and normal of an occurrence as their shop had told them initially.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. The ZF transmission does a lot of weird jolts and lurches when cold.
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      06-26-2021, 02:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
Well, of course I forgot to check. My daughter and I got to talking getting in the car this morning and by the time I remembered the engine was already running and the garage door opened.

I'll give it a shot again later, but I have looked into it some more and still hold the same position as earlier.

The above explanation of a transmission start-up self test seems like a plausible explanation, others have theorized that the transmission is applying power to the output shaft only to be stopped by the parking pawl. Either would be sound explanations, but no real cause for concern.

What is consistent though, is that this presents itself across multiple platforms spanning several years, on cars ranging from brand new to 150,000+ miles. No one has yet to report any damage or problems stemming from it. The only misfortunes I have found were those who spent high sums of money trying to eliminate it, only to find in the end, it was just as routine and normal of an occurrence as their shop had told them initially.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. The ZF transmission does a lot of weird jolts and lurches when cold.
You're probably very right. Just a shame such a thing occurs. Although I can't help but still feel that this can't be good for the overall health of the transmission. Hopefully they'll get a software fix for 3 series in the near future.
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      06-28-2021, 06:03 AM   #19
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The thing is, our N20 2017 X3 which has the same transmission does not do this.

I am wondering if it is something tied to the later B4x B5x engines?
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      06-28-2021, 08:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AZ View Post
Even if you don't remember to leave it off, the key was that I disengaged it before starting the engine this morning. So even if you forget tonight, you can still try and remember tomorrow to disengage it before starting the engine. Let me know what happens!
I finally remembered to do it this morning, started without the parking brake on and it did not occur. If I had to guess, it is probably still happening. Without the parking brake on, as you know, the car can rock back and forth a little whereas with the brake on, it has a firm endpoint. My guess is that whatever is moving around in there has a rather abrupt halt with the brake on, vs. a more subdued one with it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman24v View Post
The thing is, our N20 2017 X3 which has the same transmission does not do this.

I am wondering if it is something tied to the later B4x B5x engines?
The ZF is an interesting transmission, given that it is used on so many platforms. There seem to be quite a few of oddball transient 'issues' that will appear on some and not on others. One other example is the reverse whine. Some of our cars will have a whine in reverse like straight cut gears, while others have no sound at all. Both are completely normal. I suspect this to be the same, as the ZF is most quirky when cold. We all know of the lurching 1-2 shift, I'm sure.
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      06-28-2021, 03:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnf30x View Post
I finally remembered to do it this morning, started without the parking brake on and it did not occur. If I had to guess, it is probably still happening. Without the parking brake on, as you know, the car can rock back and forth a little whereas with the brake on, it has a firm endpoint. My guess is that whatever is moving around in there has a rather abrupt halt with the brake on, vs. a more subdued one with it off.



The ZF is an interesting transmission, given that it is used on so many platforms. There seem to be quite a few of oddball transient 'issues' that will appear on some and not on others. One other example is the reverse whine. Some of our cars will have a whine in reverse like straight cut gears, while others have no sound at all. Both are completely normal. I suspect this to be the same, as the ZF is most quirky when cold. We all know of the lurching 1-2 shift, I'm sure.
What is the lurching 1-2 shift?
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      06-28-2021, 03:34 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB_AZ View Post
What is the lurching 1-2 shift?
I thought that one was pretty much universal!

A lot of us have a somewhat aggressive first to second gear shift when the transmission is cold. Feels like the shift is hanging somewhat and then will suddenly surge into second gear, causing a 'lurching' feeling. It's pretty common (and normal), but if you don't have that, you are lucky!
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