[meltbox]

So I thought it was just a cold problem but it seems to be getting worse. I have a whistling noise which seems to build as I build boost. It starts around 2500 rpm. Uploaded a bad video here.

Should I be concerned at all? Boost leak? Turbo going to fail soon?

log, seems like there's too much boost if anything....
so it seems like either normal or early turbo failure sign?

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c591487ae729b7de7f4654d

At first I thought the sound was cool. But I also thought it showed up because it was freezing cold outside and thought it would go away...

[rjd_F30]

Hard to tell, that's a cummins that makes a lot of noises the N20 doesn't. Try and upload a video of your car so we can tell better.

[meltbox]

Terrible camera work and the sound is a bit hard to pick out. It is the whistling sound. It comes through clearer in real life than it does on the video. May have to turn it way up to hear.

Updated in op.

[rjd_F30]

Hmmmm, I don't know about that sound, but the log is head scratcher. It's making just the right amount of boost (albeit laggy in the beginning) and the WGDC is fine, so that doesn't indicate a boost leak, and it doesn't look like the turbo is compensating for one. I don't know what is going on with the throttle angle and accel. pedal % though. Either the reading is off, or more likely, you're having some throttle closure issues. Simple way to tell which it is: did the car feel like it stopped pulling while you still had your foot down? You can see in the log, the early part of the pull was very lean, and when it got too lean, the throttle angle dropped into the 20s/30s. Then when it richened back up it opened, then leaned and closed again. It looks small scale, so I wouldn't be too surprised if it was a fluke of the pull, especially if the car pulled smoothly and steadily.

Anyway, that's just what I noticed in the log. About the noise: purely based off the sound, it sounds turbo related, but there's nothing in the log (that I could pick out, completely possible I missed something) that would indicate turbo issues. Kinda stumped there.

Also: what map are you running?

[meltbox]

BM3 93 octane stage 1 but it's a custom version since I had a ton of vibration in the lower rpm range with the ots one. I'll do another couple of pulls and try to see if it's consistent. Maybe up to higher speeds or through more than one gear.

Edit: Car feels pretty good and responsive. If anything maybe feels like boost is a little slow to build.

Any concern on why the target sits at 19 and it's delivering 23psi? That doesn't seem exactly right. But then again I know very little. Just here to learn.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

BM3 93 octane stage 1 but it's a custom version since I had a ton of vibration in the lower rpm range with the ots one. I'll do another couple of pulls and try to see if it's consistent. Maybe up to higher speeds or through more than one gear.

Edit: Car feels pretty good and responsive. If anything maybe feels like boost is a little slow to build.

Any concern on why the target sits at 19 and it's delivering 23psi? That doesn't seem exactly right. But then again I know very little. Just here to learn.

Yah it looks to be a bit laggy. I see 23 psi pre-throttle for a split second, but the MAP psi (down at the bottom of the list) is what you really should be looking at for boost, because that's the pressure at the manifold, and you'll see that's pretty much on point.

[meltbox]

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5a3e2fae729b7de7f466c9

Also have you ever had an issue where logs you take end up empty on the website? Most of the logs I took today download as an empty csv file and dont open on the website at all. Stuff has been buggy lately for me. Wonder if it is my phone.

This log seems okay to me too. I feel like I'm chasing a phantom again. Looked around the turbo and charge pipes but everything seems okay. Will take another look when its bright outside and I have some spare time.

EDIT:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5a3e2fae729b7de7f466c9

Better log from an on ramp.

What is a reasonable wgdc? Mine seems to never drop below 80% when WOT but I have nothing to reference against. Kind of makes sense for it to be high given the WOT. If anyone is on this tune and could post a log so I can compare I would appreciate it.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5a3e2fae729b7de7f466c9

Also have you ever had an issue where logs you take end up empty on the website? Most of the logs I took today download as an empty csv file and dont open on the website at all. Stuff has been buggy lately for me. Wonder if it is my phone.

This log seems okay to me too. I feel like I'm chasing a phantom again. Looked around the turbo and charge pipes but everything seems okay. Will take another look when its bright outside and I have some spare time.

EDIT:
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5a3e2fae729b7de7f466c9

Better log from an on ramp.

What is a reasonable wgdc? Mine seems to never drop below 80% when WOT but I have nothing to reference against. Kind of makes sense for it to be high given the WOT. If anyone is on this tune and could post a log so I can compare I would appreciate it.

Here's an old stage 1 log of mine: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5b227025d10b43445eb14394 This should pretty well represent what a clean stage 1 log should look like. Every car will obviously be different, but for comparison's sake. If you're not feeling what looks like throttle closures in the log i.e. the car is pulling smoothly, then I'd say you're fine, and give your logs a clean bill of health, because from what I understand, with throttle closures like that, you'd feel them. So I think log wise, you're good. Just gotta figure out what that sound is, I can't see what it could be from the logs, maybe someone else will be able to.

WGDC should be above 85 bare minimum at WOT.

[meltbox]

Your log is extremely clean. No deviation, no throttle closure. Lower WGDC and higher boost would indicate my turbo is doing better than normal.

Yea the more I look at my logs the more I think something is really screwy. Those throttle closures and over a psi deviation is normal in my logs. Don't know if its trying to use throttle to compensate for that somehow and create a pressure drop before the manifold? There is even a place where the MAF reading dips during WOT which doesn't make any sense...

I might flash back to stock just to see. If things are broken when I am stock then at least I can rule out the tune. I have run logs by PTF so I think they would have caught this. I deleted those logs though... wish I hadn't.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

Your log is extremely clean. No deviation, no throttle closure. Lower WGDC and higher boost would indicate my turbo is doing better than normal.

Yea the more I look at my logs the more I think something is really screwy. Those throttle closures and over a psi deviation is normal in my logs. Don't know if its trying to use throttle to compensate for that somehow and create a pressure drop before the manifold? There is even a place where the MAF reading dips during WOT which doesn't make any sense...

I might flash back to stock just to see. If things are broken when I am stock then at least I can rule out the tune. I have run logs by PTF so I think they would have caught this. I deleted those logs though... wish I hadn't.

Well, the throttle closures is one thing. Typically, if it's closing like that on a normal car, you'll feel it very easily. However, if the car is overboosting severely I suppose it's possible to not feel it because the car is closing it in order to maintain a reasonable amount of boost rather than the 30 something psi it would make WOT... I mean, you're making 20-21 pounds at 25% throttle... So that sounds really unlikely, I strongly suspect you would feel those throttle closures, so I really don't know what's going on there. A misread on the log seems more likely at this point than throttle closures that severe that you can't feel. It's normal for the car to adjust the throttle even if the pedal is to the floor as a way of regulating boost, but throttle angle will usually stay in the high 80's-90's.

According to the MAP psi, your boost levels are perfectly normal. It's expected on these engines for boost to taper off in the higher rpms as the turbo is so small it runs out of steam. Again, according to the MAP, your car is fine, but looking at pre-throttle, it's overboosting just a bit.

It's always a good idea with an issue like this to flash back to stock and log to rule out mechanical issues and isolate the issue to the tune. Also, open a support ticket with PTF and tell them your seeing these throttle closures but not feeling them. Ask them about the deviation between pre-throttle and MAP psi too, I'm really curious to see what they say there.

[meltbox]

So I flashed back to stock and.... it still whistles. I cannot get logging to spit out a log. I keep getting logs that have time uknown or are 340 seconds long when I only log for maybe 50 seconds at a time. Opened a ticket with PTF. I'll post back when I have another log.

Side note. I complained to PTF a lot about idle quality. I can now say that I am not crazy. The idle quality on stock tune is miles better. Feels smoother too on the pulls but way less power. Really want to see what the logs look like. I will try again later today. What is confusing me is I think they said they don't change anything at idle so I don't understand why there is so much less vibration in the cabin/through the seat.

EDIT: I should note here that the tune I was running was a custom fix by PTF for me because of some of my complaints. I wonder if the throttle closure is a result of that. Lots to test here. The custom tune was to address a vibration issue I had under high load at lower rpm. The car would make a deep rumbling noise. It would do this while in drive-comfort too when I requested more torque but not enough to downshift.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

So I flashed back to stock and.... it still whistles. I cannot get logging to spit out a log. I keep getting logs that have time uknown or are 340 seconds long when I only log for maybe 50 seconds at a time. Opened a ticket with PTF. I'll post back when I have another log.

Side note. I complained to PTF a lot about idle quality. I can now say that I am not crazy. The idle quality on stock tune is miles better. Feels smoother too on the pulls but way less power. Really want to see what the logs look like. I will try again later today. What is confusing me is I think they said they don't change anything at idle so I don't understand why there is so much less vibration in the cabin/through the seat.

EDIT: I should note here that the tune I was running was a custom fix by PTF for me because of some of my complaints. I wonder if the throttle closure is a result of that. Lots to test here. The custom tune was to address a vibration issue I had under high load at lower rpm. The car would make a deep rumbling noise. It would do this while in drive-comfort too when I requested more torque but not enough to downshift.

So might be worth flashing back to an OTS map just to see what's what. Also, my car idles a little bit rough, kind of choppy for a minute after a cold start. It vibrates more in those situations but idles like butter after it's warm. I don't mind it, kind of like it honestly. But yah, could be something they changed for the custom map. Seems like a process of elimination now!

For the logging issue: go to your BM3 page, click "About" at the bottom of the list, and then click the "Reset Settings" button. I had a similar issue and this fixed it.

[meltbox]

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5b779ec090c60e36a144cb

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5b785dc090c60e36a144ce

Your fix did not work unfortunately. I did however find that if i toggle to the datalog tab after taking every log then they save properly. Otherwise I get garbage if I take back to back logs without leaving the dashboard.

I seem to still have throttle closure. Peak pressure seems low even for stock. Deviation seems much smaller than before though and timing across cylinders is dead consistent here. Whistle seems to be related to a certain rpm range of the turbo impeller while it spools or something since it still occurs in a similar place despite way lower pressures now. That is not what I was hoping but the conclusion I am drawing right now.

EDIT: Sent all the logs to PTF for comment. I'll let you know what I learn.

Thinking the next step could be to book a dyno and ask them to help me find this sound. Might as well dyno stock vs stage 1 while I'm there too. Been meaning to for a while.

EDIT2: Is this normal AFR for stock? I remember it running much leaner for some reason even at WOT. I'm hitting high 11's in some cases. Upon closer inspection it also seems that throttle closure occurs right about where AFR drops. Don't know if throttle closure is causing it but it sure is related somehow.

EDIT3: You wouldn't have a stock log lying around handy now would you? That would be very lucky on my part haha. Also the throttle closure seems to follow AFR drops which is odd. Also its definitely what is causing the much higher pre throttle psi in my 93 octane stage 1 log up top.

EDIT4: WGDC looks better on stock. Funny that its higher despite barely hitting 16psi.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5b779ec090c60e36a144cb

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5c5b785dc090c60e36a144ce

Your fix did not work unfortunately. I did however find that if i toggle to the datalog tab after taking every log then they save properly. Otherwise I get garbage if I take back to back logs without leaving the dashboard.

I seem to still have throttle closure. Peak pressure seems low even for stock. Deviation seems much smaller than before though and timing across cylinders is dead consistent here. Whistle seems to be related to a certain rpm range of the turbo impeller while it spools or something since it still occurs in a similar place despite way lower pressures now. That is not what I was hoping but the conclusion I am drawing right now.

EDIT: Sent all the logs to PTF for comment. I'll let you know what I learn.

Thinking the next step could be to book a dyno and ask them to help me find this sound. Might as well dyno stock vs stage 1 while I'm there too. Been meaning to for a while.

EDIT2: Is this normal AFR for stock? I remember it running much leaner for some reason even at WOT. I'm hitting high 11's in some cases. Upon closer inspection it also seems that throttle closure occurs right about where AFR drops. Don't know if throttle closure is causing it but it sure is related somehow.

EDIT3: You wouldn't have a stock log lying around handy now would you? That would be very lucky on my part haha. Also the throttle closure seems to follow AFR drops which is odd. Also its definitely what is causing the much higher pre throttle psi in my 93 octane stage 1 log up top.

EDIT4: WGDC looks better on stock. Funny that its higher despite barely hitting 16psi.

You're in luck Here's a stock log of mine: http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5af9b7bed10b430b6142d063 note boost is pretty damn low. I guess that's just how the stock tune is on these cars. AFR is also normal in the low 12's high 11's. Pretty interesting you're still getting throttle closures on the stock tune... That's one of the things that's almost always tune related. It really makes me think it's just something funky in the agent or logger, but I guess that might be optimistic. Very interested to hear what the experts at PTF have to say.

[meltbox]

Interesting your log has some too about 11.3 seconds into the log. Throttle hits mid 30%. Am I reading that right? Maybe this is just normal as odd as it seems.

EDIT: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47424
Seems to be the case the more I look. Will still update when PTF responds.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

Interesting your log has some too about 11.3 seconds into the log. Throttle hits mid 30%. Am I reading that right? Maybe this is just normal as odd as it seems.

EDIT: https://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47424
Seems to be the case the more I look. Will still update when PTF responds.

I'll be damned. Never noticed. Pulled that one out of the archives, haven't really looked at it in a while lol. I'd hesitate to ever call throttle closures normal because a real throttle closure, like 6000rpm and she whips shut because of a lean condition or overboost, is never normal and is not good to have. But the circumstances here would lead me to believe that while it looks like a throttle closure, it's not actually a true throttle closure that we're seeing. I have no idea why, but that's what it seems like now. More and more anxious to hear what PTF says! I'm sure you already did, but try and make sure you mention this stuff for me.

That link is a good reference, and kind of echoes what I said earlier. If the throttle modulates when WOT that's normal to regulate boost. But what we see in your first log is beyond that normal modulation.

[rjd_F30]

Mike@N54Tuning.com Gonna tag this guy maybe he can shed some light on this. IIRC, I remember him talking on a similar subject a while back and gave good insight, I can't seem find the thread now though.

[meltbox]

On the bright side seems like a new turbo costs almost nothing off ebay. Upgraded turbos could also be a good idea. Run a reliable power bump with a reliable turbo. Thanks for the help so far. Appreciate it.

I also checked the air box and my filter to see if maybe something in there was whistling. Nothing. Still need to check around where the turbo sucks in air. I'll find this or go crazy trying.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

On the bright side seems like a new turbo costs almost nothing off ebay. Upgraded turbos could also be a good idea. Run a reliable power bump with a reliable turbo. Thanks for the help so far. Appreciate it.

I also checked the air box and my filter to see if maybe something in there was whistling. Nothing. Still need to check around where the turbo sucks in air. I'll find this or go crazy trying.

MHI turbo is calling your name If my turbo ever dies, I'd get one in a heartbeat, just can't justify it when my stock turbo is fine for now *knock on wood*.

Yah hopefully you can pinpoint the sound. Never asked, does it make the sound when you're just in park and rev it?

[meltbox]

Nope, no noise when in park. May have pissed off the neighborhood standing around revving haha. Hold on I recorded a video with sound while recording my dashboard screen. Gives a little context as to when it happens.

The gears I mention refer to the acceleration right before not after.

Also PTF responded on the throttle closure. They said it is normal and BMW uses it to keep the target boost and MAP boost perfectly on top of each other. I am still asking again to make sure they looked at the 93 log since theres prolonged throttle under 30% with slight overboost at MAP. Maybe not concerning but I figured I would double check.

As for this noise of mine. You think this could be intake leak somewhere? I cannot find another video of any car making a similar noise. If this was exhaust side I would imagine I would get a CEL or something. It also doesn't seem hissy enough to be pre throttle pressurized anything. Its not impossible but its such a whistly sound its strange.

I think I don't have a choice. I might have to ask the people at the nearby dyno to see if they will help me figure out where it's coming from. I'm not one to wait until turbo pieces are in my engine.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by meltbox

Nope, no noise when in park. May have pissed off the neighborhood standing around revving haha. Hold on I recorded a video with sound while recording my dashboard screen. Gives a little context as to when it happens.

The gears I mention refer to the acceleration right before not after.

Also PTF responded on the throttle closure. They said it is normal and BMW uses it to keep the target boost and MAP boost perfectly on top of each other. I am still asking again to make sure they looked at the 93 log since theres prolonged throttle under 30% with slight overboost at MAP. Maybe not concerning but I figured I would double check.

As for this noise of mine. You think this could be intake leak somewhere? I cannot find another video of any car making a similar noise. If this was exhaust side I would imagine I would get a CEL or something. It also doesn't seem hissy enough to be pre throttle pressurized anything. Its not impossible but its such a whistly sound its strange.

I think I don't have a choice. I might have to ask the people at the nearby dyno to see if they will help me figure out where it's coming from. I'm not one to wait until turbo pieces are in my engine.

Really interesting they say that about the throttle closures... I have a hard time believing that its normal for it to close that much, especially considering most cars don't do that, but I guess every car is different. At least if they're saying that, it's likely not something dangerous or really problematic.

Yah that noise is odd lol. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's not a leak. The logs would indicate the same as well. I don't mean to scare you saying this, and I'm sure you already know this, but I guess it could be any part of the rotating assembly in the turbo, maybe something is starting to give up that whine noise sounds more mechanical than a leak. At least if it's not happening in park, you know it's dependent on the car being under load, a big part of which is the turbo. The fact that it only happens when making boost... yah. I'm obviously just speculating, but just a thought.

[meltbox]

Originally Posted by rjdnyy224

Really interesting they say that about the throttle closures... I have a hard time believing that its normal for it to close that much, especially considering most cars don't do that, but I guess every car is different. At least if they're saying that, it's likely not something dangerous or really problematic.

Yah that noise is odd lol. I'd bet dollars to donuts it's not a leak. The logs would indicate the same as well. I don't mean to scare you saying this, and I'm sure you already know this, but I guess it could be any part of the rotating assembly in the turbo, maybe something is starting to give up that whine noise sounds more mechanical than a leak. At least if it's not happening in park, you know it's dependent on the car being under load, a big part of which is the turbo. The fact that it only happens when making boost... yah. I'm obviously just speculating, but just a thought.

I'm grabbing a little mic to stick in my engine bay and listen to it in different places. Maybe get a better idea of where it is. But in the meantime I may as well ask around to see how hard it is to swap turbos. I'd do it myself if its doable in a day. That and would need to tune it right away pretty much. Then I might as well do the intercooler and everything right away. And maybe a downpipe. This opens a can of worms indeed haha.