Why can't any independent test get within 20 seconds of the claimed GTR Ring time?

Epik · 06-06-2009, 09:09 PM

Apparently, Horst Von Saurma posted a 7:38 in a Euro Spec GTR and thinks he could shave a few more seconds off.

We'll see what the best time he could manage will be in the upcoming issue of Sport Auto.

As it stands...

HvS Supertest Times

7:33 - Porsche 911 GT2
7:38 - Nissan GTR (if rumors are true)
7:39 - Techart GTstreet
7:39 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia
7:40 - Porsche Carrera GT
7:47 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS
7:49 - Corvette Z06
7:50 - Porsche 911 Carrera S
7:54 - Porsche 911 Turbo

Source: http://www.sportauto-online.de/runde...Zeit&order=ASC

E82tt6 · 06-06-2009, 10:19 PM

I think the point of the thread is:

Same day, same driver, the harder to drive GT3 is quicker.

I'm still not sure how ANYONE can believe that the GTR can outrun a CGT or Zonda.

jeremyc74 · 06-07-2009, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epik

Apparently, Horst Von Saurma posted a 7:38 in a Euro Spec GTR and thinks he could shave a few more seconds off.

We'll see what the best time he could manage will be in the upcoming issue of Sport Auto.

As it stands...

HvS Supertest Times

7:33 - Porsche 911 GT2
7:38 - Nissan GTR (if rumors are true)
7:39 - Techart GTstreet
7:39 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia
7:40 - Porsche Carrera GT
7:47 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS
7:49 - Corvette Z06
7:50 - Porsche 911 Carrera S
7:54 - Porsche 911 Turbo

Source: http://www.sportauto-online.de/runde...Zeit&order=ASC

I don't see a Nissan time listed in that link, or where he thinks he can shave any time off.

footie · 06-07-2009, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Porsche just commented about the time not being truthful a month ago.

Please show me the link so I can read this myself, because this is news to me and never has this info crossed my desk.

NewSong · 06-07-2009, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

Please show me the link so I can read this myself, because this is news to me and never has this info crossed my desk.

Umm, reading magazines and websites isn't the only way to get motor sport news. I know "google" is your only resource, but it isn't mine.

NewSong · 06-07-2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I don't see a Nissan time listed in that link, or where he thinks he can shave any time off.

Yeah, I don't either.

southlight · 06-07-2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Umm, reading magazines and websites isn't the only way to get motor sport news. I know "google" is your only resource, but it isn't mine.

This comment is not helpful. It's a valid question to ask when and how Porsche doubted that time. So can you provide some more information, please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

I don't see a Nissan time listed in that link, or where he thinks he can shave any time off.

It's not listed as it's only a rumor so far. Sportauto won't announce it before the next issue is out (June 19th).

Best regards,
south

vAnt826 · 06-07-2009, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epik

Apparently, Horst Von Saurma posted a 7:38 in a Euro Spec GTR and thinks he could shave a few more seconds off.

We'll see what the best time he could manage will be in the upcoming issue of Sport Auto.

As it stands...

HvS Supertest Times

7:33 - Porsche 911 GT2
7:38 - Nissan GTR (if rumors are true)
7:39 - Techart GTstreet
7:39 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia
7:40 - Porsche Carrera GT
7:47 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS
7:49 - Corvette Z06
7:50 - Porsche 911 Carrera S
7:54 - Porsche 911 Turbo

Source: http://www.sportauto-online.de/runde...Zeit&order=ASC

We'll see in mid-June if this is official. But even then, it wouldn't quiet the haters.

footie · 06-07-2009, 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

Umm, reading magazines and websites isn't the only way to get motor sport news. I know "google" is your only resource, but it isn't mine.

Please provide your source of this info, as this hasn't crossed my desk. Also Porsche would be wise to keep quiet, after all they only got 7:54 with their (if to believed) best effort. That's a whole 16 seconds off Horst, never mind Suzuki. They couldn't even blame track conditions as they seemed to have no problems matching their own times in the 997tt and GT2 on that same day.

Oh and you are correct South, it is only a rumour that he said more time might be shaved off. I do know there is a few pilots willing to take Nissan's challenge and as I have already said I think we will see this time of 7:38 only being a start.

NewSong · 06-07-2009, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southlight

This comment is not helpful. It's a valid question to ask when and how Porsche doubted that time. So can you provide some more information, please?

The entire TANGENT isn't helpful.

Who cares if Porsche doubted the time 2 months ago or 2 years ago?

The fact is, no one can come close to Suzuki's 7:26 time, not even one of the best Ring test drivers in the world.

Until someone does, there will always be doubt. Of course, someone will always try to explain why 14 seconds depends on "suspension tweaks" (which btw means the car wasn't stock), I just choose not to acknowledge those type of arguments.

NewSong · 06-07-2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vAnt826

We'll see in mid-June if this is official. But even then, it wouldn't quiet the haters.

7:38 is still 14 seconds slower than the fastest time claimed by Nissan.

footie · 06-08-2009, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

7:38 is still 14 seconds slower than the fastest time claimed by Nissan.

As always you are fudging facts, 7:26 was done with different rims and rubber, plus they stated revised suspension geometry, so this is not the same car that Horst drove and shouldn't be used as your reference.

You are type of guy who would argue a black crow was white.

Stock to stock the difference is 9sec and though still on the high side it is not something that hasn't happened before, that is why I referred to the RS4. The problem is that very few manufacturers release their lap times.

Inspired · 06-08-2009, 01:55 AM

lol, you guys are still going at it.. it's been weeks..

blue2fire · 06-08-2009, 02:57 AM

Real men drive a Focus.

Epik · 06-08-2009, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

As always you are fudging facts, 7:26 was done with different rims and rubber, plus they stated revised suspension geometry, so this is not the same car that Horst drove and shouldn't be used as your reference.

You are type of guy who would argue a black crow was white.

Agreed.

Although I think Nissan may have gone back and done 7:26.7 with normal wheels but again that would be the series II GTR.

So yes, I think the time to compare is 7:29 from Suzuki with 7:38 from HvS.

HvS certainly got closer to Nissan's claimed time than Porsche's "7:54 is the best w/o modification" claim for the GTR.

So 9 seconds. Hundreds of more laps and the perfect day, is it possible? With HvS saying he thinks he could go a bit quicker, say 2 seconds, then we have a 7 second difference from someone who is intimately familiar with the car and has put way more effort into pushing it to it's limits. I think it's perfectly reasonable.

Plus look at it this way, what's the point of lying about 9 seconds. Would you put your entire company's reputation on the line for that? The ringer conspiracy theories are getting old and the only people clinging to it are the fanboys. Even when SportAuto publishes possibly a lower time they will keep backpedaling.

NewSong · 06-08-2009, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

As always you are fudging facts

Fudging? You're the guy claiming "If SportAuto shaves a few seconds, it will be a more realistic time", or "based on this rumor, the time will look more realistic."

I'm not basing my argument on anything but the FACTS, you're basing your argument on some fantasy "super run" that Horst "might do."

Who's fudging now?

Epik · 06-08-2009, 01:03 PM

Actually it is a fact that there are rumors of HsV's 7:38 time and that he stated he thinks it could go a bit quicker.

So... as for who's fudging now? Well, I guess it's still just you.

footie · 06-08-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

7:38 is still 14 seconds slower than the fastest time claimed by Nissan.

I'm amazed that I totally missed this, 14 seconds from 7:38 is 7:24. How on earth am I going to reason with someone who is haven't problems with the basics of the argument.

NewSong · 06-08-2009, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epik

Actually it is a fact that there are rumors

It's a "fact that there are non-facts"???

Fudging indeed.

NewSong · 06-08-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footie

I'm amazed that I totally missed this, 14 seconds from 7:38 is 7:24. How on earth am I going to reason with someone who is haven't problems with the basics of the argument.

Troll tactic #1:
When you have no argument, go back to personally insulting the person beating you.

Epik · 06-08-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewSong

It's a "fact that there are non-facts"???

Fudging indeed.

Yeah it shouldn't too difficult to understand. No one made any attempt to pass on the 7:38 HsV time as official and stated plainly that they are just rumors. Albiet rumors from multiple places from people in the know. That's not fudging facts now is it?

Oh and I thought it was very classy of you to insult footie rather than acknowledge a simple mistake.

Inspired · 06-08-2009, 10:07 PM

06-06-2009, 09:09 PM	#89
Epik Awesome &amp;amp; Likes Cookies 43 Rep 391 Posts Drives: 2011 M5 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona iTrader: (0)	Apparently, Horst Von Saurma posted a 7:38 in a Euro Spec GTR and thinks he could shave a few more seconds off. We'll see what the best time he could manage will be in the upcoming issue of Sport Auto. As it stands... HvS Supertest Times 7:33 - Porsche 911 GT2 7:38 - Nissan GTR (if rumors are true) 7:39 - Techart GTstreet 7:39 - Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:40 - Porsche Carrera GT 7:47 - Porsche 911 GT3 RS 7:49 - Corvette Z06 7:50 - Porsche 911 Carrera S 7:54 - Porsche 911 Turbo Source: http://www.sportauto-online.de/runde...Zeit&order=ASC __________________
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06-06-2009, 10:19 PM	#90
E82tt6 Colonel 103 Rep 2,626 Posts Drives: '08 Black Saphire Z4 MC Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Jersey iTrader: (0)	I think the point of the thread is: Same day, same driver, the harder to drive GT3 is quicker. I'm still not sure how ANYONE can believe that the GTR can outrun a CGT or Zonda. __________________ '08 Black Saphire/Black Z4 M Coupe RIP Gretta: Blue Water/Lemon 135i. Died to save me. -ChuckV
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06-08-2009, 01:55 AM	#101
Inspired Colonel 148 Rep 2,368 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California iTrader: (2)	lol, you guys are still going at it.. it's been weeks..
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06-08-2009, 01:03 PM	#105
Epik Awesome &amp;amp; Likes Cookies 43 Rep 391 Posts Drives: 2011 M5 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Arizona iTrader: (0)	Actually it is a fact that there are rumors of HsV's 7:38 time and that he stated he thinks it could go a bit quicker. So... as for who's fudging now? Well, I guess it's still just you. __________________
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06-08-2009, 10:07 PM	#110
Inspired Colonel 148 Rep 2,368 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: California iTrader: (2)
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