11-15-2018, 02:05 PM | #89 | ||
Brigadier General
2294
Rep 4,451
Posts |
Quote:
We are of course the "envy of the world" - oh, that was the other fucker. |
||
Appreciate
2
MashinBenzin8450.00 moonshine849.00 |
11-15-2018, 03:05 PM | #90 | |
Barge driver
8647
Rep 12,421
Posts |
Quote:
She's got you out of the EU with a transition period to allow a new trade deal, she outlined everything in her press conference and in parliament it was all pretty clear. I know it's awful how they treated her, when it's the ERGs job to undermine her at every turn how dare the EU have a go at her as it leaves very little room for Jacob's knife. In way I'm glad that Brexiters are getting a long over due dose of reality.
__________________
730d/Z4C
|
|
Appreciate
2
MashinBenzin8450.00 moonshine849.00 |
11-15-2018, 03:10 PM | #91 |
General
8566
Rep 19,982
Posts
Drives: 911, Cayenne Turbo, Disco 4
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Crieff, Perthshire, Scotland
|
If JRM doesn't like it then it looks alright to me, don't see what all the palava is!
It's exactly the deal you'd expect in a country with no consensus on what it wants. Quite frankly Theresa May is a bloody genius to have got this far with such a weak government. They say people get the government they deserve and this proves it yet again. No one was ever going to be happy, and at least everyone is equally unhappy. Ps. Don't people have work to do?!
__________________
Current: Porsche 911 991 C4S, Porsche Cayenne Turbo, Land Rover Discovery 4. Gone...G01 X3 M40i, Cayman S 987, F31 340i, Cayman GT4, F82 M4 CP, Lotus Exige V6, G20 330e, F30 330e, Boxster S 987, F31 335d, Mini Cooper SD, E89 Z4, E90 330d 320d, E60 520d, E46 330d 320d, MX5s, E30 325i
|
Appreciate
3
|
11-15-2018, 03:13 PM | #92 | |
Major General
6399
Rep 8,488
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-15-2018, 08:13 PM | #93 | ||
Colonel
1535
Rep 2,217
Posts |
Quote:
|
||
11-16-2018, 01:23 AM | #94 | |
Major General
3122
Rep 5,681
Posts |
Quote:
For me Mervyn King summed it up quite well with his comments a few weeks ago when he said the 27 EU countries had maintained a more united front in the negotiations than the UK has managed on its own. Even now there's still talk of us doing a U-turn and remaining and so long as the EU can see those divisions we're just making life easy for them and guaranteeing ourselves a poor deal. Really goes back to what I said yesterday; collectively our Parliament has never embraced the referendum result and our divided, disunited, approach has just played into the hands of the EU. I always thought dealing with them would be difficult but IMO we should have made a far better job of it than we have (and I blame Parliament as a whole for that failure, not just our PM and her team). |
|
Appreciate
2
Herr Dreier381.50 TodmordenLad2860.00 |
11-16-2018, 03:53 AM | #96 | ||
Brigadier General
2860
Rep 3,958
Posts |
Quote:
We have seen the worst side of our politicians from the main parties - disloyalty, disunity, disorganisation, not to mention their barely concealed, grubby self-serving motives. Whilst we were always going to be on the back foot with the EU, our nation's longstanding reputation for diplomacy, pragmatism and strength in negotiation has all but evaporated in this sorry saga.
__________________
Owned: 440i GC LCI with MPPSK, F31 330D M Sport with MPPK, F11 530D SE, F11 520D SE, E61 530D M Sport, E36 325i plus many MB's, Audi's & Volvo's
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 04:08 AM | #97 |
Banned
4279
Rep 7,703
Posts |
It really doesn't matter how good, or how bad our negotiating was, how unified our position was would have not mattered a bit either. We were never going to get anything like a good deal from the EU, as they have to stop anyone else leaving. The end.
We voted leave, let's just leave then, and stop begging for all the good bits we seem to believe we're "entitled" to. Plus, whilst I dislike some parts of the EU, if this is how we handle negotiations, I'd rather the EU handled our future trade deals too. We seem happy to march straight into free trade deals with certain huge economies, where they have more to gain than we have. The EU have taken ages agreeing deals with some nations for very good reasons, they can see we have a lot more to lose by just opening everything up. Assuming absolutely everything about the EU is bad or out to get us is ridiculous. |
Appreciate
1
sahajesh2294.00 |
11-16-2018, 07:13 AM | #98 | |
Major General
3122
Rep 5,681
Posts |
Quote:
As I say, the Brexit negotiations with the EU were never going to be straightforward but in my view the significant divisions in the UK have made it much easier for them and much more difficult for us. In that case perhaps the EU ought to consider why, if it's such a great club to be in, any member would even contemplate leaving? |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 07:40 AM | #99 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
1757
Rep 1,705
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 08:00 AM | #100 | |
Banned
4279
Rep 7,703
Posts |
Quote:
But, I don't agree in this case. This was a no win negotiation. I came up against one of those last week in my own work, we chose to walk away from the deal, rather than waste time and effort. There are definitely negotiations where you cannot influence the outcome, where the other parties position is too strong, or there is too much at risk for them to change their position. This is one of those. Doesn't matter who you put in front of them, there were a lot of points that they were never ever going to move on. And if you think that Theresa May walking in there holding hands with Jacob Rees Mogg would have had them quaking and backing down, I believe that you are deluded. |
|
Appreciate
1
moonshine849.00 |
11-16-2018, 08:36 AM | #101 | |
Lieutenant
382
Rep 484
Posts |
Quote:
Which is exactly why we should have gone in there with "no deal" as our starting point, and be prepared to follow through with it. I don't think TM did either of those things despite saying "no deal is better than a bad deal" - with hindsight, I don't think she meant it. A strong Brexiteer may well have done so, that's the difference. |
|
Appreciate
1
LobB5109.00 |
11-16-2018, 09:04 AM | #102 | ||
Brigadier General
2860
Rep 3,958
Posts |
Quote:
Part of the issue to my mind is the fact that we've been negotiating without a clear strategy and endgame, which is a major handicap in any scenario. I know people who were in Ollie Robins' team who have eluded to the lack of clear thinking and strategy from government throughout, which doesn't surprise me one bit
__________________
Owned: 440i GC LCI with MPPSK, F31 330D M Sport with MPPK, F11 530D SE, F11 520D SE, E61 530D M Sport, E36 325i plus many MB's, Audi's & Volvo's
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 09:10 AM | #103 | |
Banned
4279
Rep 7,703
Posts |
Quote:
They'd rather we left with no deal than give us what we want. They will not risk the rest of the EU leaving and the whole thing breaking up, whichever version of the UK turns up to speak to them. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 09:11 AM | #104 |
Brigadier General
2080
Rep 3,032
Posts |
I don't usually comment on politics as between that and religion it's the stuff wars are made of, but just today I am airing some personal views, you may agree you may not, I don't really care either way.
It's very easy to contradict and argue that you can do it better and just what you should be doing for the country... and giving advice on how poor a deal or no deal is looking, especially when you are not the person or persons actually dealing with it on a day to day business. TM is at the sharp end doing a job that she really doesn't want to do but has to as the British public have decided that they voted to exit the EU. Although the British public really didn't know what they were voting for as they didn't know the end result at the time so how could they make an informed decision. For me this exit is redefined as - The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared to get the unspecified for the uniformed a great way to do business yes ? Remember this is politics where no matter how well you seem to be doing, there are and always will be those who think they know and could do better even when you are supposed to be on the same team. Of course it also follows that half the public know that TM isn't getting the deal or doing what the electorate want.......really what do they know, bit like getting a professional to give you advice then ignoring it as your mate down the pub knows better! So for me it's a let's be logic about this, now there is greater clarity as to the cost / end result / potential issues, why not ask the question again of the public after all they are in a more informed position now to actually make that decision. Perhaps then life can resume to some sort of normality and the £ in your pocket is worth more than 97p against the euro. If not then well lets just continue down the road to.....who knows where. Have a happy weekend |
Appreciate
3
|
11-16-2018, 09:56 AM | #105 |
Lieutenant General
8747
Rep 12,228
Posts |
I suspect the public will be asked what they think of it - but not by virtue of a second referendum as to do so would open the floodgates to calls for repeats if the result wasnt what people wanted. I think it will come by way of a general election - sometime between now and then the main two parties will have to decide what they as parties actually stand for on the great EU debate / deal.
Or we could all vote liberal, they seem to be clear and united (all 8 of them...) |
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 10:42 AM | #106 | |
Major General
4264
Rep 6,938
Posts |
Quote:
I suspect it's the only viable option now, given that the deal is nothing like the one promised. The will of the people was to have their cake and eat it. Now it's clear to even the hard-of-thinking that cake isn't freely available, they can choose between the thin gruel on offer, a hard Brexit, or remaining. |
|
Appreciate
1
Alscoob2080.00 |
11-16-2018, 11:16 AM | #107 | |
Lieutenant
382
Rep 484
Posts |
Quote:
Any referendum will have to be a 2 stage a) leave b) remain and then if leave is selected, would you prefer a) May's deal b) no deal otherwise the leave vote would be split. Even this causes loads of problems, and I bet if a second ref starts being on the cards, the question(s) cause as much infighting as brexit itself! |
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 12:23 PM | #108 | |
First Lieutenant
206
Rep 399
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 12:26 PM | #109 | ||
Major General
3122
Rep 5,681
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
However, I do think many in our Parliament have continually given the impression that all is not lost - and we may yet change our minds and remain - and the EU have quite understandably exploited that. I think their stance may have been different if they'd seen a united front from the UK and had had to accept that Brexit was really going to happen; however, even at this stage I suspect they still think there's a chance the UK will walk back through the door before it closes and so long as they believe that it's bound to influence their negotiating stance. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
11-16-2018, 12:36 PM | #110 | |
Banned
4279
Rep 7,703
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|