[JayFar]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

With all due respect I don't think it's fair to call bullshit when you have no data proving otherwise.

VM posted dyno using BMS Intake. VM don't make intakes so they have no reason to lie about it. They took the time to dyno their car and post results

I agree with Mike. Every single thread Ive seen on any intake done with dynos (including drop ins) shows at least 5HP and TQ gains. You really can't dispute data without any data

[OzBMR]

It wouldn't be good marketing to show dyno charts with no improvement for a product you are trying to sell.

Although, Imran at Evolve posted a video of testing the A90 Supra at Santa Pod drag strip:

Stock car with GPF and downpipe ran 12.7@109mph
Same day, same car with stage 1 flash tune ran 12.1@116mph and with a 3D printed prototype of an Eventuri intake went 12.1@115.6mph

Intake sounds can be nice with an open intake.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Wires

All the aftermarket companies post numbers like that, but I'm calling 100% BS to it. Just isn't possible on our torque target based turbo cars.

Only benefit the aftermarket "CAI" has is intake noise. It gives the acceleration more "drama", but don't expect noticable power gains.

What a lot of you don't grasp is

1. Most of the companies are marketing peak gains, not gains in peak power. If you decrease spool time, you get the same power earlier in the powerband.
2. You don't need gains in peak power to be faster
3. Our targets are shit, we constantly overshoot boost and a higher flowing intake will change the load profile anyway

[Wires]

I hear what you are saying, and are calling complete BS to all of that. There is no way an aftermarket filter / intake is going to reduce your spool time to anything measurable. Like I've said in other threads, show me the dyno plots and I'll shut up. Otherwise it's 100% marketing BS. I don't buy it from the engineering side.

[Wires]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

With all due respect I don’t think it’s fair to call bullshit when you have no data proving otherwise.

VM posted dyno using BMS Intake. VM don’t make intakes so they have no reason to lie about it. They took the time to dyno their car and post results

No I don't, nor does anyone else post REAL dyno's or trap times proving it's true.

So let me lay out a story of complete BS:
- My 340 puts out say 330HP.
- I put an intake on that CLAIMS 15HP
- I put an axle back on that CLAIMS 15HP

So you would stand behind my car will lay down 360HP? Doubtful with those mods. But if I tune the car, I gain only 60HP, with more boost and more fuel? Lets see some draggy results that show real numbers. If turbo spool is the deciding factor of gains, then it will show in the trap times.

Like come on, the M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output. So obviously this isn't a restriction point.

I bought an axle back purely for the sound. My butt dyno showed ZERO gains over the stock can. I know I sound like a d*ck here, but marketing snake oil is very frustrating.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by OzBMR

It wouldn't be good marketing to show dyno charts with no improvement for a product you are trying to sell.

VM do not make intakes. They were not marketing anything. Just posting dyno of their build step by step

Originally Posted by kern417

What a lot of you don't grasp is

1. Most of the companies are marketing peak gains, not gains in peak power. If you decrease spool time, you get the same power earlier in the powerband.
2. You don't need gains in peak power to be faster
3. Our targets are shit, we constantly overshoot boost and a higher flowing intake will change the load profile anyway

You are correct that there are ways to post BS dyno but VM have no reason to do so. They do not sell intakes.

Originally Posted by Wires

No I don't, nor does anyone else post REAL dyno's or trap times proving it's true.

So let me lay out a story of complete BS:
- My 340 puts out say 330HP.
- I put an intake on that CLAIMS 15HP
- I put an axle back on that CLAIMS 15HP

So you would stand behind my car will lay down 360HP? Doubtful with those mods. But if I tune the car, I gain only 60HP, with more boost and more fuel? Lets see some draggy results that show real numbers. If turbo spool is the deciding factor of gains, then it will show in the trap times.

Like come on, the M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output. So obviously this isn't a restriction point.

I bought an axle back purely for the sound. My butt dyno showed ZERO gains over the stock can. I know I sound like a d*ck here, but marketing snake oil is very frustrating.

Mods you mentioned add power on a very limited RPM range thats why its not as noticeable as lets say a tune which add power from 2500 RPM to redline. Also tune add a lot more power than an intake.

Im not saying you are wrong, maybe you are not. But you have no data and you are calling BS when someone else took the time and posted data thats all.

[alohasurftoad]

Originally Posted by labitd

Went with the CTS intake and couldn't be happier the sounds are amazing!

post some pics and maybe a video clip if you have a chance, thx.

[cooolone2]

Anyone who is experienced in modding knows what these type of simple add on mods do, and don't do.

Any modifications that will add power need to be accounted for in the tune or they won't provide any change to the fullest potential. Increasing (less restrictive) airflow, or volume will certainly create an opportunity to produce more power, albeit even if minimal. The problem is usually people don't take it where it needs to go. More air IN = More air OUT, so unless you mod the exhaust too, you bottle neck it all. I simplify things of course, but only make note to provide an example. So yes, you'll get a few HP bump, untuned, but you can get the max. by tuning, changing the fueling or MAF tables to account for more air, etc.

It's not placebo... That result comes from the brain interpreting the sound change, lol.

^^^M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output^^^

Apples n Oranges as they don't have the same tunes! Or shall we compare cars with the same tires?

[Wires]

Originally Posted by JayFar

I agree with Mike. Every single thread Ive seen on any intake done with dynos (including drop ins) shows at least 5HP and TQ gains. You really can't dispute data without any data

Yes, but 5HP is basically noise on the dyno. On the 335/340 thats basically a 1% gain.

All I'm saying is if you want an intake, make sure you are buying it for what it's guaranteed to give you:
1) Something sexy under the hood.
2) Intoxicating intake sound.

You could cut off the resonator wart on the intake tube if you wanted #2, and were sure enough that you sealed it so you didn't destroy the engine with dust. (Not an advisable route).

If you ever want an oil catch can, the BMS one would be the way to go since they have the port to hook it up to.

[Wires]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Anyone who is experienced in modding knows what these type of simple add on mods do, and don't do.

Any modifications that will add power need to be accounted for in the tune or they won't provide any change to the fullest potential. Increasing (less restrictive) airflow, or volume will certainly create an opportunity to produce more power, albeit even if minimal. The problem is usually people don't take it where it needs to go. More air IN = More air OUT, so unless you mod the exhaust too, you bottle neck it all. I simplify things of course, but only make note to provide an example. So yes, you'll get a few HP bump, untuned, but you can get the max. by tuning, changing the fueling or MAF tables to account for more air, etc.

It's not placebo... That result comes from the brain interpreting the sound change, lol.

^^^M3/4 cars run the SAME airbox as the F3x cars, pulling a lot higher power output^^^

Apples n Oranges as they don't have the same tunes! Or shall we compare cars with the same tires?

You don't need to tune anything for an intake path change. It's governed with the MAF, hence the reason it became mandatory in production vehicles. The superior means was the OBDI MAP sensor (that required tuning), but the engine produced higher emissions as cam's wore and the compression dropped.

What we are talking about is a 2 variables:
1) Difference in CFM.
2) Difference in intake tract vacuum pre/post filter.

M cars to non-M cars, tunes mean nothing. The M car pulls 100HP+ over my stock 340 engine which is an apple to apple comparison since we are running virtually the same intake tract. Do you really think that the BMW M division would take a knee to MB AMG or Audi S if they could pick up an addition 15HP with nothing but a slight intake tract change?

[about94ninjas]

FWIW, IAT temps on my P3 gauge and JB4 logs with the stock intake and AP intake during repeated pulls were pretty much identical. Looking at the just numbers, you couldn't tell which was which. Maybe it would've been different in a track setting, idk. But on the street, was pretty much the same. Not scientific by any means, but yanno

Yes there can be gains with an intake, but unless you're looking to squeeze out every HP you can, I wouldn't look at intakes based on gains. I went with AP for the sound only. Don't regret it for a second.

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by Wires

...You could cut off the resonator wart on the intake tube if you wanted #2, and were sure enough that you sealed it so you didn't destroy the engine with dust. (Not an advisable route)...

I was thinking about doing this, because if I understand it correctly that's just a muffler. But, as you said, it needs to be done properly, so that the integrity of the tube is not compromised and it is completely sealed.
If you have any links to anyone that's done it, please share. Thanks.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by PeterWT

I was thinking about doing this, because if I understand it correctly that's just a muffler. But, as you said, it needs to be done properly, so that the integrity of the tube is not compromised and it is completely sealed.
If you have any links to anyone that's done it, please share. Thanks.

buy the williams performance silicone pipe.
https://williamsperformance.co.uk/co...240i-340i-440i

if you're in the b58 enthusiasts group, you can probably message him directly and work out a deal on shipping.

[Wires]

What kern417 said. There are other options that are aluminum, but I'd be concerned about heat transfer (perhaps it's not really relevant considering how fast the air moves through the tube, but silicone solves that).

[Boomer 2019]

I originally posted these pre and post installation results of my Dinan CAI about a year ago, but I see that the questions regarding the performance of aftermarket intakes are still being debated, and lets face it, always will be. So for those interested in the subject I will again post my dyno graphs of one mans results from the route that I chose to go. I am making no claims nor endorsements. Just providing a little empirical data.

Background info: same dyno; same approximate temp and humidity. Dinan claims "MAX" increases of 13HP and 11FPT at the wheels.

First graph: MPPSK - Dinan Elite Stg.1 tune - stock AI
Second graph: with Dinan CAI

The result is an increase of 11HP and 12FPT at the wheels. Matches Dinan's claims, and is probably about as much of an increase as any of these products is likely to provide.

[cooolone2]

Originally Posted by Boomer 2019

I originally posted these pre and post installation results of my Dinan CAI about a year ago, but I see that the questions regarding the performance of aftermarket intakes are still being debated, and lets face it, always will be. So for those interested in the subject I will again post my dyno graphs of one mans results from the route that I chose to go. I am making no claims nor endorsements. Just providing a little empirical data.

Background info: same dyno; same approximate temp and humidity. Dinan claims "MAX" increases of 13HP and 11FPT at the wheels.

First graph: MPPSK - Dinan Elite Stg.1 tune - stock AI
Second graph: with Dinan CAI

The result is an increase of 11HP and 12FPT at the wheels. Matches Dinan's claims, and is probably about as much of an increase as any of these products is likely to provide.

Thank you for posting!

Originally Posted by Wires

You don't need to tune anything for an intake path change. It's governed with the MAF, hence the reason it became mandatory in production vehicles. The superior means was the OBDI MAP sensor (that required tuning), but the engine produced higher emissions as cam's wore and the compression dropped.

What we are talking about is a 2 variables:
1) Difference in CFM.
2) Difference in intake tract vacuum pre/post filter.

M cars to non-M cars, tunes mean nothing. The M car pulls 100HP+ over my stock 340 engine which is an apple to apple comparison since we are running virtually the same intake tract. Do you really think that the BMW M division would take a knee to MB AMG or Audi S if they could pick up an addition 15HP with nothing but a slight intake tract change?

Ummmmm, reading comprehension!?

True, you don't need to tune anything, and then you get nothing! As you said, the ECU will adjust, or not... What's the ECU adjusting, is it fuel and air? What is it's target, what is it trying to achieve? And when more air is added, ie, lean, than expected, what does it do? By adjisting and adding more fuel, what does that do?

Guess BMW is the only platform that realizes it biggest gains without tuning as you propose! (Not)...

BUT, "IF" you tune, you "CAN" account for additional air, and make additional power!

I've done MAF tuning, have you? Minor adjustments on open cone intake on other engine platforms. By your assumption then, if I slap a larger turbo on I don't need to worry either as the ECU will just adjust.

The M engine does not have the same heads, or cam, so it's not apples to apples, roll eyes all you want . Valves are larger and power band peaks at higher rpm, which tells me there's a slight difference in cam timing (retarded) at the very least in order to do so.

It's all good, I'll stick with my experience and what it has taught me.

Regards

[BMWApp]

Originally Posted by Boomer 2019

I originally posted these pre and post installation results of my Dinan CAI about a year ago, but I see that the questions regarding the performance of aftermarket intakes are still being debated, and lets face it, always will be. So for those interested in the subject I will again post my dyno graphs of one mans results from the route that I chose to go. I am making no claims nor endorsements. Just providing a little empirical data.

Background info: same dyno; same approximate temp and humidity. Dinan claims "MAX" increases of 13HP and 11FPT at the wheels.

First graph: MPPSK - Dinan Elite Stg.1 tune - stock AI
Second graph: with Dinan CAI

The result is an increase of 11HP and 12FPT at the wheels. Matches Dinan's claims, and is probably about as much of an increase as any of these products is likely to provide.

I remember your post from last year. It played a big role in me deciding to go with the Dinan CAI for my 340i over other intakes. I can definitely tell a difference in performance (albeit not huge but it's there) plus the sound is improved. Taking those two things into account with me being able to get it during Dinan's year-end sale, I am very happy with my purchase.

[pauli18c]

Originally Posted by kern417

For performance, you want the biggest intake you can fit in an enclosed system. From that aspect

#1 Dinan
#2 MST

I'm also sticking with the stock intake for now but if I do ever upgrade, it'll be the MST. The Dinan is too expensive imo, but it is the best design on the market currently.

For reference, I can't think of a single new car in the last 10-15+ years that doesn't have a CAI design from the factory. Every intake pulls air from the front of the car, whether it's behind the grille or under the hood opening. The main thing is if the filter is causing a restriction, so some people just swap to a higher flowing filter in the stock airbox.



It's not in a real world scenario. A lot of people take measurements with the hood open because that's how you run on a dyno, but for regular driving where the hood is closed there's a big difference. And it's not just IATs. Look at MAF values, timing correction, fuel trims, etc. Granted we're probably talking +/- 10-20hp max, but it's worth it from an efficiency and reliability standpoint.

What makes you pick MST over the AFE Momentum GT?

Seems like the AFE box is sealed off more, no?

[kern417]

Originally Posted by pauli18c

What makes you pick MST over the AFE Momentum GT?

Seems like the AFE box is sealed off more, no?

That was from several months ago before Injen, AFE, etc released their sealed box offerings. At that time it was pretty much either BMS, AP, or Dinan, or MST.

[pauli18c]

Originally Posted by kern417

That was from several months ago before Injen, AFE, etc released their sealed box offerings. At that time it was pretty much either BMS, AP, or Dinan, or MST.

Ahh ok, thanks

[Mr. 340]

I had the BMS intake for around 8 months and noticed that the car would pull timing the more hot air it was sucking from the engine bay. Now I do live in a hot and humid climate, so it will be different for everyone. I switched back to the stock air box and got the AFE dry air filter and the AFE intake scoop and the car feels completely different. Did this 3 months ago and the car feels amazing. Car is now more consistent and smoother in my opinion. Great and cheap upgrade.

[TWIN-SCROLL]

I went with the Eventuri intake.

Maybe the priciest of the lot but in my opinion, it's the best looking one as well as the most technologically advanced, the shape of the filter and housing creating a Venturi effect, thus increasing air velocity.

The kit is also provided with an air scoop to enhance air flow.

And on top of that, the sound it produce is fantastic !